240hz on 60FPS games

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lexlazootin
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Re: 240hz on 60FPS games

Post by lexlazootin » 11 Mar 2018, 02:45

Chief Blur Buster wrote:No, it doesn't make a difference.

When framerates are well below GSYNC maximum, any far-higher-cap has no effect (RTSS or not, ingame or not, VSYNC OFF or not, VSYNC ON or not). Doesn't matter a bleep -- if you're doing 60fps.
Maybe I'm missing something, but from the tests it does look like it does some faster scan out or something.

https://i.imgur.com/4EFkMUl.png

If i am right it might be interesting to record the scan out differences on a 1000fps camera

crossjeremiah
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Re: 240hz on 60FPS games

Post by crossjeremiah » 11 Mar 2018, 10:33

So GSYNC + VSYNC ON , GSYNC + VSYNC OFF @ 60FPS . Will perform the same, because the fps is not passing the refresh limit.

That also explains when ever I try to turn vsync off when GSYNC is on, it reverts back to the Use 3d Application setting, like its telling "dude vsync will be on regardless if GSYNC is on"

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RealNC
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Re: 240hz on 60FPS games

Post by RealNC » 11 Mar 2018, 11:01

lexlazootin wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but from the tests it does look like it does some faster scan out or something.
https://i.imgur.com/4EFkMUl.png
To me this looks like a gsync vs non-gsync vsync off comparison, not a comparison between gsync + vsync on vs gsync + vsync off.
crossjeremiah wrote:That also explains when ever I try to turn vsync off when GSYNC is on, it reverts back to the Use 3d Application setting, like its telling "dude vsync will be on regardless if GSYNC is on"
That's not true. If I set it to off, it stays off. I don't know what's going on in your system :P

It only reverts to "app controlled" when you change the gsync setting.
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Re: 240hz on 60FPS games

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 11 Mar 2018, 12:31

lexlazootin wrote:
Chief Blur Buster wrote:No, it doesn't make a difference.

When framerates are well below GSYNC maximum, any far-higher-cap has no effect (RTSS or not, ingame or not, VSYNC OFF or not, VSYNC ON or not). Doesn't matter a bleep -- if you're doing 60fps.
Maybe I'm missing something, but from the tests it does look like it does some faster scan out or something.

https://i.imgur.com/4EFkMUl.png

If i am right it might be interesting to record the scan out differences on a 1000fps camera
1. I believe that your link just quoted Jorim's 60 Hz results. 58fps at 60Hz.
That's very different from 60fps cap at 240Hz.

2. I am comparing GSYNC enabled + VSYNC OFF versus GSYNC enabled + VSYNC ON.
Where there is no difference for 60fps at 240Hz.
Your spreadsheet link contains GSYNC disabled + VSYNC OFF
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Re: 240hz on 60FPS games

Post by lexlazootin » 12 Mar 2018, 01:35

You're right, i can't believe i missed that. I must of assumed they were all G-Sync.

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Re: 240hz on 60FPS games

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 12 Mar 2018, 10:30

Just to be clear, readers, as this can all get confusing pretty quickly. ;)

For the GSYNC enabled cases, if framerates permanently stay below the max Hz (60fps @ 240Hz), it's very hard for even an inaccurate cap to cause brief fluctuations of framerates all the way to 240fps necessary to trigger VSYNC ON or VSYNC OFF activating.

Those modes (when GSYNC enabled) only applies when framerates hit GSYNC max-Hz.

If GSYNC enabled,
-- Anything below 240fps, frames are given the GSYNC treatment.
-- Anything maxed-out 240fps, frames are given the VSYNC ON or VSYNC OFF treatment.

Framerates can fluctuates from a frame-per-frame basis. Caps pretty close to GSYNC, e.g. 239fps at 240Hz, there can still be small fluctuations near the cap. So there are still odds of random frametimes like 1/237sec and 1/241sec. One frame gets the full GSYNC treatment (no-delay refresh-cycle starts). The other frame gets the VSYNC OFF treatment (interrupts the currently scanning-out frame = tearline) or VSYNC ON treatment (a forced wait = input lag)

But a framerate cap of 60fps on a 240Hz GSYNC display? At that point, VSYNC ON versus VSYNC OFF doesn't matter if GSYNC is enabled,
repeating, GSYNC is enabled. It's such a large capping margin.
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Re: 240hz on 60FPS games

Post by SAMURAIWARRIOR13 » 14 Mar 2018, 03:46

Don't mean to get off topic here but,
I get stuttering whenever I set my monitor refresh rate below the default refresh rate of my montior(which is 60hz).
So if I set the windows settings to 50hz, Factorio stutters even with RTSS set to 50 or just slightly below it with the method described in in your low lag v-sync article.
I thought if I set a cap and lowed the Hz in windows display it wouldn't stutter as described here:
RealNC wrote:
SAMURAIWARRIOR13 wrote:So just to double check to make sure i'm not mistaken on this, v-sync will work at any refresh rate as long as the refresh rate is constant?
Vsync will always work, regardless of frame rate.
Example, if I can't really maintain a 120fps signal but I can with 100fps then I can set the refresh rate to 100hz in windows display settings and that would work just the same as 120hz?
Vsync will be fine at 120Hz even if the game runs at 100FPS. The reason to switch to 100Hz is not to make vsync work, it's to avoid stutter.

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Re: 240hz on 60FPS games

Post by RealNC » 14 Mar 2018, 04:05

SAMURAIWARRIOR13 wrote:I get stuttering whenever I set my monitor refresh rate below the default refresh rate of my montior(which is 60hz).
So if I set the windows settings to 50hz, Factorio stutters even with RTSS set to 50 or just slightly below it with the method described in in your low lag v-sync article.
Some monitors have frame skipping issues with custom refresh rates. Do a frame skipping test. See:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3905&p=31064#p31064
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Re: 240hz on 60FPS games

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 14 Mar 2018, 09:30

RealNC wrote:Some monitors have frame skipping issues with custom refresh rates. Do a frame skipping test. See:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3905&p=31064#p31064
While this is true of many monitors, we have to narrow the field first.

Before embarking too much time on this potentially wild goose chase;
- What model of monitor? What refresh rate?
- Does full refresh rate motion continually microstutter? (e.g. 240 fps at 240 Hz looking microstuttery) -- check www.testufo.com while running your browser as the only window app in Performance mode (Chrome or FireFox)
- If yes, then definitely do the frameskipping test.
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SAMURAIWARRIOR13
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Re: 240hz on 60FPS games

Post by SAMURAIWARRIOR13 » 14 Mar 2018, 14:24

What model of monitor? What refresh rate?


My monitor is the BenQ gl2460 which is 60hz see here:
https://www.benq.com/en/monitor/stylish ... tions.html
Does full refresh rate motion continually microstutter? (e.g. 240 fps at 240 Hz looking microstuttery) -- check http://www.testufo.com while running your browser as the only window app in Performance mode (Chrome or FireFox)
I didn't notice any stuttering on there but tbh I don't really know what to look for on that test.
However playing Factorio at 60fps I didn't notice any stuttering.

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