Mark Rejhon I have questions for you to answer!!!

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Re: Mark Rejhon I have questions for you to answer!!!

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 20 Mar 2018, 16:31

IamElonMusk wrote:Mark thank you for replying, why cant strobe backlight go to higher frequencies
There are two problems when you try to do that.
For best quality stutter free blur reduction, you want strobe rate = refresh rate = frame rate.
One flash per frame. Frame rate matching refresh rate.

You can diverge from that, at degradations (e.g. jitteriness, microstuttering, multi image effects, etc) if you don't mind the degradations, then it's an option.

However, it becomes a "why does it look bad?" for some people, and many monitor manufacturer limits choice for user-friendliness. To prevent users from accessing modes that may look bad or uncomfortable to them (flicker, strobe crosstalk, etc). Especially if the user don't know how to change the setting back after accidentally entering a bad mode.

Now, here are difficulties going to high strobe rates.

(1) Multiple image effects if strobing higher than frame rate:

GPUs have difficulties maintaining high frame rates, so you often get multiple image effects at frame rates below strobe rates:

Image

(2) Strobe crosstalk. Higher refresh rates means LCD pixel response slowness can't be as easily bypassed by strobing.

Image vs Image vs Image

Related article: http://www.blurbusters.com/crosstalk
The higher the refresh rate, the worse the strobe crosstalk.
Higher refresh rates often means less time between refresh cycles.
LCD pixels aren't instantaneous.
They take a finite amount of time to transition.
See high speed video of an LCD display (video of http://www.testufo.com/flicker ...)

phpBB [video]

This 2ms LCD has pixels fast enough to strobe.

Screens are refreshed top-to-bottom, but there's an LCD pixel response chasing behind (LCD GtG - Grey to Grey).
The problem is that a display begins a new refresh cycle before the previous refresh cycle is finished transitioning.
Here's a much older, slower LCD:

phpBB [video]

This 33ms LCD is too slow to strobe.

Three refresh cycles are being displayed simultaneously:
Image
(Numbers 06, 07 and 08 displayed at the same time).

If you're interested in more info in strobe backlight engineering, see Electronics Hacking: Creating a Strobe Backlight.

At the end of the day, you have tradeoffs that occur at low strobe rates or high strobe rates. As displays improve, and as GPUs improve, strobe rates can stay in sync with higher frame rates with no problem. But performance limitations and monitor limitations means high strobe rates aren't always ideal for all situations.

Summary:
-- The lower the refresh rate, the better quality the strobe crosstalk
-- 100fps@100Hz strobed look smoother than 120fps@144Hz strobed or 250fps@100Hz strobed.
-- 120fps@120Hz strobed has less strobe crosstalk than 240fps@240Hz strobed, if you're bothered by strobe crosstalk
-- Manufacturers often disable low-Hz strobing because of flicker.
-- Manufacturers often disable high-Hz strobing because of poor quality strobe crosstalk
-- Some manufacturers unlock the strobing and let you strobe at any rate you want (e.g. BenQ ZOWIE is good for that)
-- Some manufacturers lets you strobe at max Hz (e.g. LG and BenQ ZOWIE), and trying their best with the crosstalk, letting you decide if strobe crosstalk is okay.
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IamElonMusk
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Joined: 20 Mar 2018, 06:26

Re: Mark Rejhon I have questions for you to answer!!!

Post by IamElonMusk » 28 Feb 2020, 06:55

It's been a couple of years but here is an article from someone who has seen an 8K TV and says the motion blur is extremely bad https://www.redsharknews.com/technology ... otion-blur

I could have sworn on this website it was explained to me that the higher the resolution the worse the motion blur becomes, for instance motion blur is worse at 4K 30fps as opposed to 1080p 30fps, I swear I read an article on this website that explained it to me like that, so that's my understanding and I swear I got it from this website and I was trying to find the article but since it was two years ago it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack, can you find me the article and link it here for me?

So is motion blur unbearably bad at 8k 30fps? Thanks.

IamElonMusk
Posts: 7
Joined: 20 Mar 2018, 06:26

Re: Mark Rejhon I have questions for you to answer!!!

Post by IamElonMusk » 01 Mar 2020, 07:44

Bump. Mark where are u, on vacation?

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