Concerning an old TN monitor
I've been on a BenQ XL2410T (yes, 10T) for the past 6 years, and want to know how modern TN's (and IPS) compare to my old junker (120hz, pre-ULMB & GSync). Horizontal and Vertical viewing angles are absolutely atrocious, like a holographic card, and even sitting middle of the monitor - top and bottom gamma levels can feel like they differ by 20%. Basically its a requirement to use the bottom of the monitor to look while in a dark environment in games, and everything on the top screen portion stays pitch black.
It has 160 & 170 degree viewing angles. Remember that.
(Use this as an example of my viewing angle, and that paragraph below http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/ben ... tm#viewing )
Main point;
How does something like a TN model Dell S2417DG (1440p, 165hz) compare? It boasts ' 160deg ' and ' 170 deg ' vertical and horizontal viewing angles respectively, same as my BenQ. Have TN's improved, can I hope?
Upon doing my own research instead of being lazy (there was no 2417, but 2716 will do), http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/del ... tm#viewing
It seems the horizontal viewing has improved, but vertical is still bad albeit slightly improved.
And if we compare my Benq 2410T/Dell 165hz TN to an IPS? As an example, Asus PG279Q, 165hz 1440p. So viewing angle jumps to 178 degrees. Yep IPS has great viewing angles. http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asu ... tm#viewing
That's a hard choice, fork over double to get an IPS, or get a decent deal on a TN. I've always been annoyed at traversing in dark game areas, where half the screen has the correct gamma to actually see.
Last question, will this hubub of 700-nit, 1000-nit certified and HDR help with TN panel accuracies? Also, I'm tired of waiting for a 1440p 240hz release!
Attempting to understand modern TN's vs IPS
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BlurZapper
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 12 Sep 2017, 21:31
Re: Attempting to understand modern TN's vs IPS
I've answered most of my questions today doing research on tft.
VA panels have great contrast ratios (3x IPS and TN) (fixes the problem of losing detail in dark gray), but VA's have very slow G2G transitions, from black to dark gray usually 30ms which causes very bad motion blur, very noticeable at 120+fps. Great viewing angles, but the blur turns me off completely.
IPS panels have similar contrast ratios of TN, but no distortion for viewing angles. What's great about IPS lately is the lowering G2G times approaching 5ms at 120fps, and even better with ULMB. The 5ms G2G makes 120fps reasonably low motion blur, as each refresh is 8ms at 120fps. Approaching 144-165 fps the G2G slows; approaching 5.5-6.5ms average, and begins causing blurring at higher refresh rates (165fps is 6ms refreshes).
Though for IPS later this year, with the new AUO and LG IPS monitors being manufactured now, they expect to drive down G2G to "1" or more probably 3-4.5ms G2G average. This is the limiting factor, now they can bump up refresh rates without worrying about motion blur. As such, you can easily expect 240fps+1440p monitors being produced with little to no motion blur.
HDR/local dimming seems to be a nice feature to attempt to fix IPS and TN contrast ratios, so everything seems to be improving nicely.
VA panels have great contrast ratios (3x IPS and TN) (fixes the problem of losing detail in dark gray), but VA's have very slow G2G transitions, from black to dark gray usually 30ms which causes very bad motion blur, very noticeable at 120+fps. Great viewing angles, but the blur turns me off completely.
IPS panels have similar contrast ratios of TN, but no distortion for viewing angles. What's great about IPS lately is the lowering G2G times approaching 5ms at 120fps, and even better with ULMB. The 5ms G2G makes 120fps reasonably low motion blur, as each refresh is 8ms at 120fps. Approaching 144-165 fps the G2G slows; approaching 5.5-6.5ms average, and begins causing blurring at higher refresh rates (165fps is 6ms refreshes).
Though for IPS later this year, with the new AUO and LG IPS monitors being manufactured now, they expect to drive down G2G to "1" or more probably 3-4.5ms G2G average. This is the limiting factor, now they can bump up refresh rates without worrying about motion blur. As such, you can easily expect 240fps+1440p monitors being produced with little to no motion blur.
HDR/local dimming seems to be a nice feature to attempt to fix IPS and TN contrast ratios, so everything seems to be improving nicely.
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lexlazootin
- Posts: 1251
- Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 02:57
Re: Attempting to understand modern TN's vs IPS
Yea, that's a pretty good understanding.
IPS with <3-4ms would be pretty dope. tiny color shift is a big deal imo, it makes TN look so much worse compared to IPS.
IPS with <3-4ms would be pretty dope. tiny color shift is a big deal imo, it makes TN look so much worse compared to IPS.
Re: Attempting to understand modern TN's vs IPS
Doesn't IPS have better contrast than TN? That's my experience at least (one of the first things I noticed on IPS is the deeper blacks.) And tests/reviews usually give results in the 800-1000 range for TN and 1000-1200 range for IPS. (Of course VA wins by a large margin with values like 3000:1...)
Also, VA is supposed to have viewing angle dependent gamma shift. TN has color shift and gamma shift. IPS has neither, but has viewing angle glow instead.
(And CRT and OLED are looking at all these different LCDs and having a laugh
)
Also, VA is supposed to have viewing angle dependent gamma shift. TN has color shift and gamma shift. IPS has neither, but has viewing angle glow instead.
(And CRT and OLED are looking at all these different LCDs and having a laugh
)Steam • GitHub • Stack Overflow
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.
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BlurZapper
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 12 Sep 2017, 21:31
Re: Attempting to understand modern TN's vs IPS
You are right, IPS has better contrast ratios. I said similar earlier, but IPS really has usually 30-50% more contrast ratio, like you said. TN's usually 800-1000 and IPS 1000-1300. Right too on the angle shift remarks. I do miss the easy days of CRT's having most things great.
Random thought #2, TN's will be the first to 1kfps, and honestly should be able to with the next AUO panels if they get 1ms G2G's.
Will OLED's make the transition to high refresh (gaming) displays soon? Or are their G2G's still slow? Trying to remember if Occulus/Vive use OLED's (and they do OLED, just checked). Doubtful they could micro-manufacture small IPS monitors for the eyes, would be neat though.
Random thought #2, TN's will be the first to 1kfps, and honestly should be able to with the next AUO panels if they get 1ms G2G's.
Will OLED's make the transition to high refresh (gaming) displays soon? Or are their G2G's still slow? Trying to remember if Occulus/Vive use OLED's (and they do OLED, just checked). Doubtful they could micro-manufacture small IPS monitors for the eyes, would be neat though.