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I have a BenQ/Zowie XL2740, and I love it.

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Re: I have a BenQ/Zowie XL2740, and I love it.

Postby k2viper » 06 Jun 2018, 03:42

A Solid lad wrote:2, Finally, this 27" screen is as responsive, as the aw2518Hf, which I found to be the most responsive, out of all the 240hz screens I've tried. (Yes it felt snappier than even the aw2518H, it's g-sync counterpart)


No raising DPC latency levels as with LG? Just curious. Post a default 240hz CRU timings pls, and did you tried increasing VT yet?

Btw, I still highly doubt that one-digit raise in average DPC latency may somehow affect monitor's responsiveness. Also because LG has larger VBI and high dotclock headroom (need to be checked on Benq though). And thus, faster frames scanout should theoretically improve real world scenarios' responsiveness, not decrease it.

A Solid lad wrote:3, Also finally, onscreen motion on a 27" 240hz, is not smeary anymore... on the LG 27GK750, it was. (Can't evaluate the xf270ha fairly, as it had frameskipping)
I'm sorry k2viper, but you're probably only happy with that monitor, because you haven't tried any other 240hz screen.

Scrolling through text is the best I've seen on any monitor to date. Using an AMA setting of High, text won't become thicker or thinner (as it happened on all the LG and ACER 27" screens I've tried) when scrolling, also...
and this is a first, there doesn't seem to be any visible coronas appearing behind the letters! (Like it happened on all other high refresh rate LCDs I've tried, when having even the lowest overdrive setting enabled...)
The olny thing I get is a bit of blurryness when I try to scroll this essay I just wrote (lol) ...let me try turning on strobing for a sec...
So, now with Blur reduction turned on, with "Intesity" set to 1 (for max brightness) and "Area" set to 10 (because I can't seem to get a noticeable improvement in regards to crosstalk by changing it... so I'm just leaving it on default cos too lazy to tinker further),
Scrolled text is even clearer with less blur! The characters are still not getting thicker or thinner. The only downside is, that they seem a bit stuttery... I assume that is either a result of crosstalk or black frame insertion itself.

To conclude this section, I think the scrolling test demonstrates pretty nicely, why I didn't like the LG 27GK750... just like text, everything else ingame just looked different, when it was in motion.
Can't remember wheter text on that monitor got thicker or thinner when in motion...but one of the two things took place, which was REALLY distracting for me...
The thing is, this effect can't be picked up on the moving UFO tests...on those tests, the LG seems to be a good performer, and only now, while writing this pseudo-review, did I come to the realization that I actually have a way of showing you (the text scroll test) what I mean when I say the motion on the LG 27GK750 look grainy in comparison to screens like the Dell aw2518Hf, aw2518H, Benq xl2411z and xl2740.


Yes, scrolling text becomes thicker on LG on fastest OD, thats doesnt bother me much, but that effect on LG is massively reduced if you switch OD to fast or normal. Interesting, how different these monitors behave even using the same panel and (probably) scaler.

Btw, how much is the Benq? Here in Russia, XL2740 is like 170USD more then LG.


A Solid lad wrote:Yes, it feels more responsive than LG's 1ms strobing on the 27GK750... but that applies to sample-and-hold operation as well.
If strobing is this good without DyAc, I can't imagine how much brighter and more responsive that has to be on the xl2546... it may even have less crosstalk? (Somebody who has tried that monitor should clarify)


What do you mean saying "more responsive strobing"? I see you want to say that strobing of XL2740 is someway better then 1ms MBR of LG, but in which way? At this moment, my own research made me confident that exact models 27GK750F-B and XL2546 are using identical strobe timings (area+intensity). Its highly likely that XL2740 uses the same strobe timings too (presumably, the same scaler and same "default" strobe timings for all of these). So I'm struggling to see how these can be different strobing-wise.

Btw did you tried to adjust strobing via Blurbusters strobe utility? Does it really adjust something and reduce crosstalk at full 240hz?
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Re: I have a BenQ/Zowie XL2740, and I love it.

Postby A Solid lad » 06 Jun 2018, 16:40

First off, thank you all for the replies.

I did what you asked me to do, Mark:
Image
And it works.
Albeit there's little to no merit using it as it is, since you can make the same adjustments from the service menu + the persistence slider currently works the other way around. (Adjusting the slider towards "Brighter Screen" for example, actually lowers the brightness.)
...AND it only goes down to 3, as opposed to the setting in the service menu, which goes all the way down to 1, which results in an even brighter screen.
Again, only brightness is affected by the Persistence slider. (Same as story as the intensity setting in the service menu.)

Now 60hz, Falkentyne:
First off, a strange observation...
Setting the monitor to 60hz, instead of 240, gets rid of the buzzing noise...enabling blur reduction brings it back :D

So yes, BR does work, but it doesn't eliminate the blur, just slightly reduces it. If I remember corretly, that means it double strobes? I don't really pay attantion when I see talk about 60hz stuff, since I know I'm not going to be using it anytime soon.

OK, next up is lexlazootin:
Yes, I know buying and returning monitors isn't a nice thing...but looking at it realistically: I'm a selfish person, companies are selfish as well, YOU are selfish as well.
I'm doing this so that I could gather valuable information, while keeping the product as intact as possible.

AAAAnd yes, I know that my videos are way too long winded for a normal person, with an average attention span, I'm too lazy to script and edit them as I should. :lol:
But thanks for the reminder...if I get told enough times to do something about it, I might end up doing so... so just keep telling me please. Seriously. I need to be pestered. :lol:

Now finally...I've arrived at the hard part, trying to reply to k2viper, without offending him. (And/Or sounding like a total d1ck.) Because I really don't want to... I like him. (No homo.)
I'll be short and clear:
You're bringing up numbers and assumptions about the responsiveness and motion clarity of each monitor...but, you're only assuming how other monitors compare to the LG 27GK750F-B.
I have actually tried and played games on all of the monitors in my sig. For prolonged periods of time, while fiddling with each monitor's settings.
All of that experience leads me to say, that the LG and the Acer felt the least responsive, while the AW2518Hf and XL2740 the most responsive.
The Acer skips frames, so I'm disregarding that "result" of mine... but the LG doesn't...and as such ---WAIT

I was just about to quote HARDWARE.INFO on the lag numbers and elaborate further...so while I was at it, I also checked tftcentral to see whether or not they've released their reiew on the LG...and they did!
Image
Here's the link for the full review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_27gk750f.htm

This confirms all of my suspicions. I've felt it in my guts... I knew I couldn't trust HARDWARE.INFO's overly positive results.
The monitor didn't feel sluggish for me for no reason...
Ridiculously high input lag for a 240hz monitor, no matter what their description says below the lag measurements.

I don't think there's any need for me to try and prove my point about the LG feeling sluggish anymore, but I'll add this:
It's not just the input lag. The way that motion is displayed on the LG is messed up... it seems smeary ingame, can't find a better word for it... this imo, hugely contributes to the sluggish feeling I felt while playing games on it.

P.s.: If I did in the end, come off as a d1ck, I apologise, I have to work on that.
Youtube channel: youtube.com/TheSolidlad
Steam profile with PC Specs: steamcommunity.com/id/TheSolidlad
Monitors I've used/use: IBM p275, Benq XL2411Z, Alienware AW2518Hf, Alienware AW2518H, Acer XF270HA, LG 27GK750F-B, Benq XL2740, ACER XB271HU, ACER XG270HUa, Benq XL2720Z
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Re: I have a BenQ/Zowie XL2740, and I love it.

Postby Falkentyne » 06 Jun 2018, 18:19

A Solid lad wrote:First off, thank you all for the replies.

I did what you asked me to do, Mark:
Image
And it works.
Albeit there's little to no merit using it as it is, since you can make the same adjustments from the service menu + the persistence slider currently works the other way around. (Adjusting the slider towards "Brighter Screen" for example, actually lowers the brightness.)
...AND it only goes down to 3, as opposed to the setting in the service menu, which goes all the way down to 1, which results in an even brighter screen.
Again, only brightness is affected by the Persistence slider. (Same as story as the intensity setting in the service menu.)

Now 60hz, Falkentyne:
First off, a strange observation...
Setting the monitor to 60hz, instead of 240, gets rid of the buzzing noise...enabling blur reduction brings it back :D

So yes, BR does work, but it doesn't eliminate the blur, just slightly reduces it. If I remember corretly, that means it double strobes? I don't really pay attantion when I see talk about 60hz stuff, since I know I'm not going to be using it anytime soon.

OK, next up is lexlazootin:
Yes, I know buying and returning monitors isn't a nice thing...but looking at it realistically: I'm a selfish person, companies are selfish as well, YOU are selfish as well.
I'm doing this so that I could gather valuable information, while keeping the product as intact as possible.

AAAAnd yes, I know that my videos are way too long winded for a normal person, with an average attention span, I'm too lazy to script and edit them as I should. :lol:
But thanks for the reminder...if I get told enough times to do something about it, I might end up doing so... so just keep telling me please. Seriously. I need to be pestered. :lol:

Now finally...I've arrived at the hard part, trying to reply to k2viper, without offending him. (And/Or sounding like a total d1ck.) Because I really don't want to... I like him. (No homo.)
I'll be short and clear:
You're bringing up numbers and assumptions about the responsiveness and motion clarity of each monitor...but, you're only assuming how other monitors compare to the LG 27GK750F-B.
I have actually tried and played games on all of the monitors in my sig. For prolonged periods of time, while fiddling with each monitor's settings.
All of that experience leads me to say, that the LG and the Acer felt the least responsive, while the AW2518Hf and XL2740 the most responsive.
The Acer skips frames, so I'm disregarding that "result" of mine... but the LG doesn't...and as such ---WAIT

I was just about to quote HARDWARE.INFO on the lag numbers and elaborate further...so while I was at it, I also checked tftcentral to see whether or not they've released their reiew on the LG...and they did!
Image
Here's the link for the full review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_27gk750f.htm

This confirms all of my suspicions. I've felt it in my guts... I knew I couldn't trust HARDWARE.INFO's overly positive results.
The monitor didn't feel sluggish for me for no reason...
Ridiculously high input lag for a 240hz monitor, no matter what their description says below the lag measurements.

I don't think there's any need for me to try and prove my point about the LG feeling sluggish anymore, but I'll add this:
It's not just the input lag. The way that motion is displayed on the LG is messed up... it seems smeary ingame, can't find a better word for it... this imo, hugely contributes to the sluggish feeling I felt while playing games on it.

P.s.: If I did in the end, come off as a d1ck, I apologise, I have to work on that.


Yes that means it is double strobing.
if it single strobes, you would be seeing VERY noticeable flickering of the backlight and you should get a perfectly smooth image (at least until the higher testuFO speeds). But the key is you would see very large amounts of backlight flicker.

Double strobe means that it's strobing TWICE every 16.7 ms, or in other words, it's doing a strobe flash every 8.3ms (meaning the entire backlight on+backlight off cycle lasts 8.3ms, however the amount of time the backlight is on, compared to how long it's off, depends on the persistence setting (or "Intensity, as it's called in the service menu).

double strobing isn't awful but it's unnatural, because you see a double image, rather than a blurry single image. Seeing a double image on your screen is not natural to the eyes. Better to have flicker, than that.

Thus I'm passing on this monitor.
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Re: I have a BenQ/Zowie XL2740, and I love it.

Postby k2viper » 07 Jun 2018, 03:18

A Solid lad,
Okay, I got your point about inputlag/slugginess of LG, but what about my question of how Blurbusters strobe utility and/or service menu settings may adjust strobing, do it really can help reducing crosstalk at 240hz strobed? Or default is just fine. Photos of 240hz strobed are appreciated too :)
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Re: I have a BenQ/Zowie XL2740, and I love it.

Postby A Solid lad » 07 Jun 2018, 05:13

k2viper Yes, changing the area setting shifts the crosstalk zones, but the best setting for a clear image in the middle of the screen is the default value of 10.
I'm sucky with images, so I'll try to include that in the video. :lol:

Hmmm, Falkentyne it didn't seem to display two images at once...just one, that was still heavily blurred, gotta show this in the video as well.
Youtube channel: youtube.com/TheSolidlad
Steam profile with PC Specs: steamcommunity.com/id/TheSolidlad
Monitors I've used/use: IBM p275, Benq XL2411Z, Alienware AW2518Hf, Alienware AW2518H, Acer XF270HA, LG 27GK750F-B, Benq XL2740, ACER XB271HU, ACER XG270HUa, Benq XL2720Z
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Re: I have a BenQ/Zowie XL2740, and I love it.

Postby lexlazootin » 07 Jun 2018, 05:56

A Solid lad wrote:Hmmm, Falkentyne it didn't seem to display two images at once...just one, that was still heavily blurred, gotta show this in the video as well.


This isn't something you can test with a camera, when you go on testufo do you see two UFOs or just one? does the backlight strobing look a lot more obvious at 60hz then 120?
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Re: I have a BenQ/Zowie XL2740, and I love it.

Postby RealNC » 07 Jun 2018, 08:43

A Solid lad wrote:Hmmm, Falkentyne it didn't seem to display two images at once...just one, that was still heavily blurred, gotta show this in the video as well.

The double-image effect does look like blur since it's not like there's two image when nothing's moving. There's two images, right next to each other when stuff is moving and thus it look similar to blur. These two images don't actually exist in reality. The double-image effect is an optical illusion our brains make up when the same image flashes twice while it's moving. Cameras will capture what's actually there, which is only one image.

In order to test whether this is what you're getting or not, use 120Hz with strobing enabled, and then run a 60FPS game. Or look at the 60FPS testufo animation while 120Hz strobing. This will produce the same kind of double-image effect as 60Hz double-strobe. If that looks the same to you, then it's double strobing.
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Re: I have a BenQ/Zowie XL2740, and I love it.

Postby 3dfan » 08 Jun 2018, 06:58

just my personal opinion but i think tests like the moving photo street map can be more convenient to have better idea of motion blurring than the moving ufo, since that way you can clearly read text on the moving map if there is no blur, and easier see double text if there is double image due to double strobing, at least that was what i witnessed when enabled the blur reduction mode on a monitor a while ago., i think the moving ufo is more suitable for ghosting, cross talk, and that type of artifacts checking.

also thanks A Solid lad for his review and 60hz strobing test, unfortunatelly not all of us have the ease to test monitors before being forced to buy them, or the option to return them if it doesnt suit our satisfaction.

I support Falkentyn on his 60hz single strobing insistence, things like motion clarity shoud be considered on modern monitors not only for the highest refresh competitive gaming but also for the beauty of the clear, colorful 2d 3d 60fps motion gaming.
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Re: I have a BenQ/Zowie XL2740, and I love it.

Postby A Solid lad » 08 Jul 2018, 04:00

lexlazootin wrote:If you're going to go out of your way to return something because you didn't like it you should do some searching before hand and just buy the good one in the first place :\

That's the thing though... there wasn't nearly enought information about the XL2740 on the internet for me to be able to decide whether I'd want it for real, or not.
And even if there are people posting about a monitor and providing information that might still not be enough... a perfect example of this was the LG 27GK750F for me.
I got really hyped by all the positive things users said about it on this forum and bought it... and it ended up being less responsive than the aw2518hf I've previously tried, good thing I did... otherwise I might have kept the LG and would have eventually regretted it, since I imagine I'd be so upset about not being able to score shots, which I previously did, that I'd put back my old xl2411z into action and would have realised that it feels more responsive, because of the lower signal processing lag.

TL;DR sometimes, you have to test/see things for yourself.
Youtube channel: youtube.com/TheSolidlad
Steam profile with PC Specs: steamcommunity.com/id/TheSolidlad
Monitors I've used/use: IBM p275, Benq XL2411Z, Alienware AW2518Hf, Alienware AW2518H, Acer XF270HA, LG 27GK750F-B, Benq XL2740, ACER XB271HU, ACER XG270HUa, Benq XL2720Z
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Re: I've have BenQ/Zowie XL2740, and I love it.

Postby JoshPeterson654 » 09 Jul 2018, 04:07

lexlazootin wrote:>if I were to keep this monitor, and a couple of months from now, Benq would come out with a new, even better version of it, which has DyAc and uses the new 27" 1080p 240hz 3ms(!!!) base response time panels (which can be then pushed down further with overdrive) that AU optronics will make.

?? Auo hasn't made a new 1080p 240hz panel, are you thinking of their new 1440p 240hz?

Also did you buy a monitor only to return it? Because that's not very nice.


I was thinking exactly the same thing! Benq comes out with new stuff so often I can't keep up.
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