BenQ XL2740 - 27” 1080p - 240hz - Should I wait?

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saw141
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BenQ XL2740 - 27” 1080p - 240hz - Should I wait?

Post by saw141 » 16 Aug 2018, 17:47

Please forgive me if this isn’t the right forum section. I love this site so much and am absolutely FASCINATED by the research, science and discussion. High FPS technology is so incredible to me, from the first time I saw 30-60 FPS; then when I transitioned to 60-144. I truly love this website and all that is done here. tl;dr is that I have the XL2720Z, I want the XL2740 but I’m not sure if it will deliver the clarity of motion I could potentially get somewhere else at 27”.

I currently own a BenQ XL2720Z 144hz monitor [http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/ben ... .htm#specs], it is the best monitor I’ve ever used. I only just recently learned about the BlurBuster motion blur flicker tool, I haven’t tried configuring it because I’m actually selling the monitor at the moment anyway; there’s not much point in configuring it now.

However, I’ve been intending on upgrading to 240hz ever since I found out about it. But after using the 27” XL2720Z, I’ve fallen in love with 27”. I imagine I COULD go back to 24.5” or something, but with the XL2740 offering 240 at 27”, I think I want to go with it. However I am aware that compared to the XL2546, the XL2740 does not have DayAc strobing. I don’t use the built in blur reduction on my current 144hz XL2720Z and I’m new to learning about “single bulb strobing” “double strobing” and honestly what flickering does. Please forgive my ignorance, I have been trying to educate myself.

So with all that context, is the new BenQ XL2740 a good monitor in terms of the most fluid and clear motion at 240hz? Should I wait for the future to upgrade? I want to be able to have the lowest blur, and I just read on the Strobe Utility page [https://www.blurbusters.com/benq/strobe-utility/] that this monitor uses a fixed strobe length and doesn’t offer any benefits from being tweaked. This concerns me because I feel like that means it’s not good? I think I just don’t really understand this whole “strobing past 100hz” “single strobe before 60hz” stuff. I don’t mind not having DayAc and I understand it is a form of flickering. So should I not get the 2740 and just wait for a 27” 240hz with DayAc? I really love BenQ and would like to continue with them if possible.

I’m sorry if this doesn’t make sense. The tl;dr is that I have the XL2720Z, I want the XL2740 but I’m not sure if it will deliver the clarity of motion I could potentially get somewhere else at 27”.

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Re: BenQ XL2740 - 27” 1080p - 240hz - Should I wait?

Post by Falkentyne » 18 Aug 2018, 10:20

Your XL2720Z and all of the monitors with the "Mstar 8556T" scaler had a service menu option for "Single Strobe."
This option allowed for single frame strobing (one strobe per refresh) at 60hz to 85hz refresh rates (technically, all refresh rates below 96hz, but 50hz (Yes, the PAL setting; there WERE games--usually old emulators, that ran at 50 FPS rather than 60 fps) would fail to strobe at all without a complicated custom timing).

This was ideal because some games would either:
1) be locked to 60 FPS, meaning for smooth gameplay, you would want the refresh rate to match the framerate, e.g. 60hz=60 FPS

If your video card or CPU were too slow, you might not be able to maintain 100 fps/100hz (since 100hz-144hz always single strobes no matter what), meaning you would get very annoying frame stutter, if for example you averaged 86 FPS (with vsync off, for example, or vsync on +Triple buffering or fastsysnc enabled (nvidia option), to prevent your framerate from dropping in HALF, if it dropped below the refresh rate, when your refresh rate were 100 hz or 120hz. The image would not look very good with blur reduction on, because the frame stutters would be "clearer" thanks to the reduced blur. So using a custom refresh rate, like 85hz (my favorite was 1920x1080, 85hz, with a vertical total value of "VT 1501" (values like 1500 and 1502 would cause monitor frame stutter lag due to a bug), would give you smoother gameplay since you are now averaging 86 FPS, but now you can set vsync on for 85hz/85 FPS at all times==higher quality smoothness.

The newer Benq monitors REMOVED the single strobe option, so now, below 100hz, it will strobe TWICE instead of once per frame, which causes a very blatant, annoying and brain dizziness inducing double image. A double sharp image is very unnatural, meaning you are probably better off disabling blur reduction.

That's just a huge, silly and stupid design oversight there.

If you never play games locked to 60 fps (e.g. console ports) or can always maintain 100 FPS or higher in your games, this won't be an issue for you.

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Re: BenQ XL2740 - 27” 1080p - 240hz - Should I wait?

Post by RealNC » 18 Aug 2018, 10:38

I always recommend waiting when it comes to the current 240Hz panels, as they really don't seem good to me. I constantly see people posting issues.

Note though that if you use strobing, a jump to 240Hz wouldn't really give you that much better motion quality. 120Hz with strobing looks clearer than 240Hz without strobing. In fact, 60Hz with strobing looks clearer than 240Hz without strobing (except for the awful flicker, of course.)

Just enable BenQ Blur Reduction in your XL2720Z and then start a game that can maintain 120FPS (or 100FPS in 100Hz mode) and enable vsync. You'll see that everything that is moving on the screen (mouse look in an FPS game for example) is super clear. Well, unless your monitor has the firmware bug which makes part of the screen not so clear (see https://www.blurbusters.com/benq-xl2720 ... ix-coming/)
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Re: BenQ XL2740 - 27” 1080p - 240hz - Should I wait?

Post by saw141 » 18 Aug 2018, 15:11

I really appreciate the responses. So basically if I do upgrade, I won't see any negative effects right?

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Re: BenQ XL2740 - 27” 1080p - 240hz - Should I wait?

Post by saw141 » 23 Aug 2018, 12:33

Why does the BenQ Strobe Utility not work with the XL2740 as stated on the page? Is it because it single strobes at 240 anyway? Am I understanding that correctly?

Also if anyone has this monitor can you check it’s overdrive ghosting or motion blur reduction/overshoot? Sorry if the terms are incorrect, I’m learning.

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Re: BenQ XL2740 - 27” 1080p - 240hz - Should I wait?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 26 Aug 2018, 22:05

[quote="saw141"]Why does the BenQ Strobe Utility not work with the XL2740 as stated on the page? Is it because it single strobes at 240 anyway? Am I understanding that correctly?/quote]
Strobe Utility is designed to work best with single strobing, so that's not the cause.

Few tests have been made on the XL2740 with Strobe Utility -- we don't have an XL2740 in house, so we're unfortunately reliant on our users to test brand new models. The Utility has been heavily tested on 11/20/30/35 series, but a lot less tests have been submitted with the 240Hz models, and I appreciate feedback.
--> If you're getting Strobe Utility error messages upon startup, send me the error messages that appear.

There's a special debug mode: Please run Strobe Utility, hit the letter "F" key and then try "BenQ Config A" as well as "BenQ Config B".
--> If one model works correctly, please send me a screenshot of the device code (e.g. "BNQ7F29") that appears.
Email to squad[at]blurbusters.com

I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience, the XL2740 should have been working based on the information I have. Strobe Utility is reliant on access to communicating via VCP codes over DDC/CI, and there can be several things that can technically go wrong. Appreciated!
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saw141
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Re: BenQ XL2740 - 27” 1080p - 240hz - Should I wait?

Post by saw141 » 27 Aug 2018, 10:36

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
saw141 wrote:Why does the BenQ Strobe Utility not work with the XL2740 as stated on the page? Is it because it single strobes at 240 anyway? Am I understanding that correctly?/quote]
Strobe Utility is designed to work best with single strobing, so that's not the cause.

Few tests have been made on the XL2740 with Strobe Utility -- we don't have an XL2740 in house, so we're unfortunately reliant on our users to test brand new models. The Utility has been heavily tested on 11/20/30/35 series, but a lot less tests have been submitted with the 240Hz models, and I appreciate feedback.
--> If you're getting Strobe Utility error messages upon startup, send me the error messages that appear.

There's a special debug mode: Please run Strobe Utility, hit the letter "F" key and then try "BenQ Config A" as well as "BenQ Config B".
--> If one model works correctly, please send me a screenshot of the device code (e.g. "BNQ7F29") that appears.
Email to squad[at]blurbusters.com

I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience, the XL2740 should have been working based on the information I have. Strobe Utility is reliant on access to communicating via VCP codes over DDC/CI, and there can be several things that can technically go wrong. Appreciated!

Thanks for the response :) I’m just trying to learn everything at the moment, I do plan on getting the monitor and perhaps selling it if they release a model with DayAc and 3ms base time.

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Re: BenQ XL2740 - 27” 1080p - 240hz - Should I wait?

Post by A Solid lad » 27 Aug 2018, 12:44

It's like nobody read the reply I made to you Mark, in my post about the XL2740... :lol: So I'm gonna paste it here:
First off, thank you all for the replies.

I did what you asked me to do, Mark:
Image
And it works.
Albeit there's little to no merit using it as it is, since you can make the same adjustments from the service menu + the persistence slider currently works the other way around. (Adjusting the slider towards "Brighter Screen" for example, actually lowers the brightness.)
...AND it only goes down to 3, as opposed to the setting in the service menu, which goes all the way down to 1, which results in an even brighter screen.
Again, only brightness is affected by the Persistence slider. (Same as story as the intensity setting in the service menu.)

Now 60hz, Falkentyne:
First off, a strange observation...
Setting the monitor to 60hz, instead of 240, gets rid of the buzzing noise...enabling blur reduction brings it back :D

So yes, BR does work, but it doesn't eliminate the blur, just slightly reduces it. If I remember corretly, that means it double strobes? I don't really pay attantion when I see talk about 60hz stuff, since I know I'm not going to be using it anytime soon.

OK, next up is lexlazootin:
Yes, I know buying and returning monitors isn't a nice thing...but looking at it realistically: I'm a selfish person, companies are selfish as well, YOU are selfish as well.
I'm doing this so that I could gather valuable information, while keeping the product as intact as possible.

AAAAnd yes, I know that my videos are way too long winded for a normal person, with an average attention span, I'm too lazy to script and edit them as I should. :lol:
But thanks for the reminder...if I get told enough times to do something about it, I might end up doing so... so just keep telling me please. Seriously. I need to be pestered. :lol:

Now finally...I've arrived at the hard part, trying to reply to k2viper, without offending him. (And/Or sounding like a total d1ck.) Because I really don't want to... I like him. (No homo.)
I'll be short and clear:
You're bringing up numbers and assumptions about the responsiveness and motion clarity of each monitor...but, you're only assuming how other monitors compare to the LG 27GK750F-B.
I have actually tried and played games on all of the monitors in my sig. For prolonged periods of time, while fiddling with each monitor's settings.
All of that experience leads me to say, that the LG and the Acer felt the least responsive, while the AW2518Hf and XL2740 the most responsive.
The Acer skips frames, so I'm disregarding that "result" of mine... but the LG doesn't...and as such ---WAIT

I was just about to quote HARDWARE.INFO on the lag numbers and elaborate further...so while I was at it, I also checked tftcentral to see whether or not they've released their reiew on the LG...and they did!
Image
Here's the link for the full review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_27gk750f.htm

This confirms all of my suspicions. I've felt it in my guts... I knew I couldn't trust HARDWARE.INFO's overly positive results.
The monitor didn't feel sluggish for me for no reason...
Ridiculously high input lag for a 240hz monitor, no matter what their description says below the lag measurements.

I don't think there's any need for me to try and prove my point about the LG feeling sluggish anymore, but I'll add this:
It's not just the input lag. The way that motion is displayed on the LG is messed up... it seems smeary ingame, can't find a better word for it... this imo, hugely contributes to the sluggish feeling I felt while playing games on it.

P.s.: If I did in the end, come off as a d1ck, I apologise, I have to work on that.
TL;DR The strobe utility does work, but there's little point in using it.
Last edited by A Solid lad on 28 Aug 2018, 12:05, edited 1 time in total.
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saw141
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Re: BenQ XL2740 - 27” 1080p - 240hz - Should I wait?

Post by saw141 » 27 Aug 2018, 21:38

A Solid lad wrote:It's like nobody read the reply I made to you Mark, in my post about the XL2740... :lol: So I'm gonna paste it here:
First off, thank you all for the replies.

I did what you asked me to do, Mark:
Image
And it works.
Albeit there's little to no merit using it as it is, since you can make the same adjustments from the service menu + the persistence slider currently works the other way around. (Adjusting the slider towards "Brighter Screen" for example, actually lowers the brightness.)
...AND it only goes down to 3, as opposed to the setting in the service menu, which goes all the way down to 1, which results in an even brighter screen.
Again, only brightness is affected by the Persistence slider. (Same as story as the intensity setting in the service menu.)

Now 60hz, Falkentyne:
First off, a strange observation...
Setting the monitor to 60hz, instead of 240, gets rid of the buzzing noise...enabling blur reduction brings it back :D

So yes, BR does work, but it doesn't eliminate the blur, just slightly reduces it. If I remember corretly, that means it double strobes? I don't really pay attantion when I see talk about 60hz stuff, since I know I'm not going to be using it anytime soon.

OK, next up is lexlazootin:
Yes, I know buying and returning monitors isn't a nice thing...but looking at it realistically: I'm a selfish person, companies are selfish as well, YOU are selfish as well.
I'm doing this so that I could gather valuable information, while keeping the product as intact as possible.

AAAAnd yes, I know that my videos are way too long winded for a normal person, with an average attention span, I'm too lazy to script and edit them as I should. :lol:
But thanks for the reminder...if I get told enough times to do something about it, I might end up doing so... so just keep telling me please. Seriously. I need to be pestered. :lol:

Now finally...I've arrived at the hard part, trying to reply to k2viper, without offending him. (And/Or sounding like a total d1ck.) Because I really don't want to... I like him. (No homo.)
I'll be short and clear:
You're bringing up numbers and assumptions about the responsiveness and motion clarity of each monitor...but, you're only assuming how other monitors compare to the LG 27GK750F-B.
I have actually tried and played games on all of the monitors in my sig. For prolonged periods of time, while fiddling with each monitor's settings.
All of that experience leads me to say, that the LG and the Acer felt the least responsive, while the AW2518Hf and XL2740 the most responsive.
The Acer skips frames, so I'm disregarding that "result" of mine... but the LG doesn't...and as such ---WAIT

I was just about to quote HARDWARE.INFO on the lag numbers and elaborate further...so while I was at it, I also checked tftcentral to see whether or not they've released their reiew on the LG...and they did!
Image
Here's the link for the full review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_27gk750f.htm

This confirms all of my suspicions. I've felt it in my guts... I knew I couldn't trust HARDWARE.INFO's overly positive results.
The monitor didn't feel sluggish for me for no reason...
Ridiculously high input lag for a 240hz monitor, no matter what their description says below the lag measurements.

I don't think there's any need for me to try and prove my point about the LG feeling sluggish anymore, but I'll add this:
It's not just the input lag. The way that motion is displayed on the LG is messed up... it seems smeary ingame, can't find a better word for it... this imo, hugely contributes to the sluggish feeling I felt while playing games on it.

P.s.: If I did in the end, come off as a d1ck, I apologise, I have to work on that.
TL;DR The strobe utility does work, but there1s little point in using it.
I did read the thread before posting this but I'm very new to understanding the intricacies of these technologies, I've watched your videos as well. k2viper reminded me of the thread you've quoted, in another thread I started about this monitor. I'm sorry to so feverishly post about it but information about this monitor is so scarce. I do really appreciate the response, the best information I've found about the XL2740 has been on these forums.

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Re: BenQ XL2740 - 27” 1080p - 240hz - Should I wait?

Post by k2viper » 28 Aug 2018, 11:02

Btw 27GK750F-B is recently found having not that "huge" input lag at all, I've posted that in my thread: viewtopic.php?p=34487#p34487
Its only needed to roll on Original scaling mode.

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