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IPS 4ms vs TN 1ms

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IPS 4ms vs TN 1ms

Postby xCODIx » 24 Nov 2018, 17:24

I'm in the market for an IPS panel that excels with gaming.

I currently have the Asus ROG PG248Q and I'm tired of looking at the horrible colors on this TN panel however, I'm worried I won't be able to enjoy the same response time while gaming. I want good color and response time.

Is the 4ms vs 1ms going to be noticeable? - I feel like I won't notice but I cannot compare the two in person
Can IPS panels stack up against a TN panel while holding better colors?

From what I can tell it looks like the best monitor for me would be the -
ASUS ROG PG279Q 27" IPS 2560×1440 165Hz G-SYNC ULMB


Sorry if this topic has been posted a lot, I did my research through the forums as well as youtube and I'm still undecided.
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Re: IPS 4ms vs TN 1ms

Postby RealNC » 24 Nov 2018, 17:40

I have a 4ms IPS and to me it's just as good as a TN panel when it comes to responsiveness.

Note that Asus has a new 165Hz IPS coming up, the PG279QZ: https://www.asus.com/us/Monitors/ROG-SWIFT-PG279QZ

It's the successor to the PG279Q, and it looks like it has a new panel.
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Re: IPS 4ms vs TN 1ms

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 24 Nov 2018, 18:35

xCODIx wrote:Is the 4ms vs 1ms going to be noticeable? - I feel like I won't notice but I cannot compare the two in person
Can IPS panels stack up against a TN panel while holding better colors?

Depends on your priorities.

There are now very good TN panels that can nearly match IPS as long as you're not worried about viewing angles. It has been my experience that a non-overclocked 240Hz monitor already can produce better colors than an overclocked 180Hz monitor, so your PG248Q is a fairly low bar. It is easy to have a newer TN monitor beat the color quality of overclocked 180Hz -- the PG258Q already beats PG248Q in color quality. However, there are a lot of benefits going IPS if you prefer.

1ms is indeed noticeable for:
  • 240Hz+ refresh rate.
  • Better motion blur reduction such as ULMB.
  • Very high end competitive play (e.g. eSports)
However, if you're just playing at 120Hz-144Hz and not too concerned about minor differences at these leagues, then 4ms IPS is really good already. As long as pixel response is less than half a refresh cycle, it's hard to notice. Obviously, 4ms is a full refresh cycle at 240Hz, and 4ms is way too slow when reaching that refresh rate stratosphere. To eliminate pixel response as a noticeable visual limiting factor in persistence, you really want pixel response to be less than 1/2 refresh cycle or thereabouts. When using blur reduction such as ULMB, then to minimize strobe crosstalk, pixel response needs to be much more aggressively tiny fraction (preferably less than 1/4 refresh cycle, albiet there are exceptions).

If your priority is motion blur over color quality, bear in mind that IPS currently reaches motion blur bottlenecks beyond roughly ~120Hz. The best 240Hz TN monitors have half the motion blur as the best 165Hz IPS monitors.

If you are wanting to go IPS, check out 1440p 165 Hz IPS Monitors in the G-SYNC list.
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Re: IPS 4ms vs TN 1ms

Postby xCODIx » 24 Nov 2018, 21:19

RealNC wrote:I have a 4ms IPS and to me it's just as good as a TN panel when it comes to responsiveness.

Note that Asus has a new 165Hz IPS coming up, the PG279QZ: https://www.asus.com/us/Monitors/ROG-SWIFT-PG279QZ

It's the successor to the PG279Q, and it looks like it has a new panel.

I'll keep my eye out for this new one!
My current monitor hasn't exactly left the best taste in my mouth but it seems Asus has stepped up their game since the release of my monitor.

Which monitor are you currently using?


Chief Blur Buster wrote:
xCODIx wrote:Is the 4ms vs 1ms going to be noticeable? - I feel like I won't notice but I cannot compare the two in person
Can IPS panels stack up against a TN panel while holding better colors?

Depends on your priorities.

There are now very good TN panels that can nearly match IPS as long as you're not worried about viewing angles. It has been my experience that a non-overclocked 240Hz monitor already can produce better colors than an overclocked 180Hz monitor, so your PG248Q is a fairly low bar. It is easy to have a newer TN monitor beat the color quality of overclocked 180Hz -- the PG258Q already beats PG248Q in color quality. However, there are a lot of benefits going IPS if you prefer.

Thank you for the in depth reply, I really appreciate it. I was actually trying to message you personally but I assume you have that turned off for a reason.

I primarily play CS:GO as my go to game however, I mostly stick to FPS games because of the monitor that I have. I tend to avoid open world or sand box games that don't need the response time but would suffer from the color on a TN panel. And I don't play any games at an eSports level, I'm not sure I need a 240hz TN 1ms is ideal if I'm not actually capable of utilizing it.

Chief Blur Buster wrote:1ms is indeed noticeable for:
  • 240Hz+ refresh rate.
  • Better motion blur reduction such as ULMB.
  • Very high end competitive play (e.g. eSports)
However, if you're just playing at 120Hz-144Hz and not too concerned about minor differences at these leagues, then 4ms IPS is really good already. As long as pixel response is less than half a refresh cycle, it's hard to notice. Obviously, 4ms is a full refresh cycle at 240Hz, and 4ms is way too slow when reaching that refresh rate stratosphere. To eliminate pixel response as a noticeable visual limiting factor in persistence, you really want pixel response to be less than 1/2 refresh cycle or thereabouts. When using blur reduction such as ULMB, then to minimize strobe crosstalk, pixel response needs to be much more aggressively tiny fraction (preferably less than 1/4 refresh cycle, albiet there are exceptions).

I'm not against getting another TN panel if the newer panels are better with color like you're expressing. However, if 4ms vs 1ms is hardly noticeable it would seem that IPS is the better option, no?

Chief Blur Buster wrote:If your priority is motion blur over color quality, bear in mind that IPS currently reaches motion blur bottlenecks beyond roughly ~120Hz. The best 240Hz TN monitors have half the motion blur as the best 165Hz IPS monitors.

If you are wanting to go IPS, check out 1440p 165 Hz IPS Monitors in the G-SYNC list.

I looked at the list and the best options would seem to be the ASUS ROG PG279Q; unless you think another one is better? Or I wait for the newever version like realNC suggested.
When you say bottle neck above 120hz, am I going to notice a lot of motion blur on a game like CS:GO with an IPS 165hz?
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Re: IPS 4ms vs TN 1ms

Postby Malinkadink » 24 Nov 2018, 22:05

If you are willing to wait for next year we'll be seeing 1ms IPS displays with 240hz.

https://www.displayninja.com/new-monito ... -and-2019/

That link will show a pretty comprehensive list of what is to come. It looks like IPS will finally have response times equivalent to todays 1ms TN monitors, while TN is going to be moving ahead to 0.5ms. I'd personally trade that small bit of response time for a 240hz IPS for its significantly better colors and viewing angles and lack of vertical gamma shift. I didn't see any 240hz 1440p on that roadmap for the various manufacturers but if 1080p 240hz is happening i see no reason for 1440p 240hz to not exist too.
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Re: IPS 4ms vs TN 1ms

Postby xCODIx » 24 Nov 2018, 22:21

Malinkadink wrote:If you are willing to wait for next year we'll be seeing 1ms IPS displays with 240hz.

https://www.displayninja.com/new-monito ... -and-2019/

That link will show a pretty comprehensive list of what is to come. It looks like IPS will finally have response times equivalent to todays 1ms TN monitors, while TN is going to be moving ahead to 0.5ms. I'd personally trade that small bit of response time for a 240hz IPS for its significantly better colors and viewing angles and lack of vertical gamma shift. I didn't see any 240hz 1440p on that roadmap for the various manufacturers but if 1080p 240hz is happening i see no reason for 1440p 240hz to not exist too.

I can definitely wait, assuming the wait is worth it of course. I'm used to my current monitor and I'd rather have something I truly enjoy then impulse buying like I did with this one.

How soon do you think we'll be seeing these 1ms IPS panels?
Or do you think it's all just theoretical?
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Re: IPS 4ms vs TN 1ms

Postby Malinkadink » 24 Nov 2018, 23:24

xCODIx wrote:
Malinkadink wrote:If you are willing to wait for next year we'll be seeing 1ms IPS displays with 240hz.

https://www.displayninja.com/new-monito ... -and-2019/

That link will show a pretty comprehensive list of what is to come. It looks like IPS will finally have response times equivalent to todays 1ms TN monitors, while TN is going to be moving ahead to 0.5ms. I'd personally trade that small bit of response time for a 240hz IPS for its significantly better colors and viewing angles and lack of vertical gamma shift. I didn't see any 240hz 1440p on that roadmap for the various manufacturers but if 1080p 240hz is happening i see no reason for 1440p 240hz to not exist too.

I can definitely wait, assuming the wait is worth it of course. I'm used to my current monitor and I'd rather have something I truly enjoy then impulse buying like I did with this one.

How soon do you think we'll be seeing these 1ms IPS panels?
Or do you think it's all just theoretical?


It's not theoretical pretty sure most of it has been announced directly from the likes of lG, Samsung, AUO. The earliest 144hz 1080p IPS will probably be the Asus VG279Q, but its 27" not sure how you feel about 27 @ 1080p but i find the pixels too big and prefer 24". I'm on a Dell S2417DG and really want to get a 240hz IPS preferably 1440p, but i could see myself buying a pair of 1080p 240hz IPS monitors in the interim if the 1440p panels still need a year or so of gestation before they launch those. I know we'll have 1440p 240hz TNs in 2019, but im not looking to upgrade from a 165hz TN to a 240hz TN, as at that point its mostly just hz im gaining, nothing more.
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Re: IPS 4ms vs TN 1ms

Postby xCODIx » 24 Nov 2018, 23:27

Malinkadink wrote:
xCODIx wrote:
Malinkadink wrote:If you are willing to wait for next year we'll be seeing 1ms IPS displays with 240hz.

https://www.displayninja.com/new-monito ... -and-2019/

That link will show a pretty comprehensive list of what is to come. It looks like IPS will finally have response times equivalent to todays 1ms TN monitors, while TN is going to be moving ahead to 0.5ms. I'd personally trade that small bit of response time for a 240hz IPS for its significantly better colors and viewing angles and lack of vertical gamma shift. I didn't see any 240hz 1440p on that roadmap for the various manufacturers but if 1080p 240hz is happening i see no reason for 1440p 240hz to not exist too.

I can definitely wait, assuming the wait is worth it of course. I'm used to my current monitor and I'd rather have something I truly enjoy then impulse buying like I did with this one.

How soon do you think we'll be seeing these 1ms IPS panels?
Or do you think it's all just theoretical?


It's not theoretical pretty sure most of it has been announced directly from the likes of lG, Samsung, AUO. The earliest 144hz 1080p IPS will probably be the Asus VG279Q, but its 27" not sure how you feel about 27 @ 1080p but i find the pixels too big and prefer 24". I'm on a Dell S2417DG and really want to get a 240hz IPS preferably 1440p, but i could see myself buying a pair of 1080p 240hz IPS monitors in the interim if the 1440p panels still need a year or so of gestation before they launch those. I know we'll have 1440p 240hz TNs in 2019, but im not looking to upgrade from a 165hz TN to a 240hz TN, as at that point its mostly just hz im gaining, nothing more.


I'd would love to see 1440p IPS 240hz for the 27" monitor but I'm fine with 24" monitor, I'm still using 1080p.
I might just wait for the new Asus realNC mentioned and then wait for the reviews on the new IPS 240hz monitors come out, unless it's closer than I'm thinking, about a year?
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Re: IPS 4ms vs TN 1ms

Postby Malinkadink » 25 Nov 2018, 00:38

xCODIx wrote:
Malinkadink wrote:
xCODIx wrote:
Malinkadink wrote:If you are willing to wait for next year we'll be seeing 1ms IPS displays with 240hz.

https://www.displayninja.com/new-monito ... -and-2019/

That link will show a pretty comprehensive list of what is to come. It looks like IPS will finally have response times equivalent to todays 1ms TN monitors, while TN is going to be moving ahead to 0.5ms. I'd personally trade that small bit of response time for a 240hz IPS for its significantly better colors and viewing angles and lack of vertical gamma shift. I didn't see any 240hz 1440p on that roadmap for the various manufacturers but if 1080p 240hz is happening i see no reason for 1440p 240hz to not exist too.

I can definitely wait, assuming the wait is worth it of course. I'm used to my current monitor and I'd rather have something I truly enjoy then impulse buying like I did with this one.

How soon do you think we'll be seeing these 1ms IPS panels?
Or do you think it's all just theoretical?


It's not theoretical pretty sure most of it has been announced directly from the likes of lG, Samsung, AUO. The earliest 144hz 1080p IPS will probably be the Asus VG279Q, but its 27" not sure how you feel about 27 @ 1080p but i find the pixels too big and prefer 24". I'm on a Dell S2417DG and really want to get a 240hz IPS preferably 1440p, but i could see myself buying a pair of 1080p 240hz IPS monitors in the interim if the 1440p panels still need a year or so of gestation before they launch those. I know we'll have 1440p 240hz TNs in 2019, but im not looking to upgrade from a 165hz TN to a 240hz TN, as at that point its mostly just hz im gaining, nothing more.


I'd would love to see 1440p IPS 240hz for the 27" monitor but I'm fine with 24" monitor, I'm still using 1080p.
I might just wait for the new Asus realNC mentioned and then wait for the reviews on the new IPS 240hz monitors come out, unless it's closer than I'm thinking, about a year?


240hz should be out late next year, nothing wrong with getting a 1440p 165hz AHVA monitor now and a year later sell it off and upgrade to a 240hz.

Depending how competitive you may be 240hz may not even be worth it for you and a 4ms 165hz IPS would be fine for your use cases.
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Re: IPS 4ms vs TN 1ms

Postby xCODIx » 25 Nov 2018, 02:32

Malinkadink wrote:
xCODIx wrote:
Malinkadink wrote:
xCODIx wrote:I can definitely wait, assuming the wait is worth it of course. I'm used to my current monitor and I'd rather have something I truly enjoy then impulse buying like I did with this one.

How soon do you think we'll be seeing these 1ms IPS panels?
Or do you think it's all just theoretical?


It's not theoretical pretty sure most of it has been announced directly from the likes of lG, Samsung, AUO. The earliest 144hz 1080p IPS will probably be the Asus VG279Q, but its 27" not sure how you feel about 27 @ 1080p but i find the pixels too big and prefer 24". I'm on a Dell S2417DG and really want to get a 240hz IPS preferably 1440p, but i could see myself buying a pair of 1080p 240hz IPS monitors in the interim if the 1440p panels still need a year or so of gestation before they launch those. I know we'll have 1440p 240hz TNs in 2019, but im not looking to upgrade from a 165hz TN to a 240hz TN, as at that point its mostly just hz im gaining, nothing more.


I'd would love to see 1440p IPS 240hz for the 27" monitor but I'm fine with 24" monitor, I'm still using 1080p.
I might just wait for the new Asus realNC mentioned and then wait for the reviews on the new IPS 240hz monitors come out, unless it's closer than I'm thinking, about a year?


240hz should be out late next year, nothing wrong with getting a 1440p 165hz AHVA monitor now and a year later sell it off and upgrade to a 240hz.

Depending how competitive you may be 240hz may not even be worth it for you and a 4ms 165hz IPS would be fine for your use cases.

Yeah, I think that might be the best idea for now.
The problem though is that I won't know if the 165hz 4ms will really be that noticeable or noticeable enough that I don't enjoy it after being accustomed to a TN panel.
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