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[Help] New monitor for less blur in real-time stock trading

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[Help] New monitor for less blur in real-time stock trading

Postby cacs1985 » 05 Jan 2019, 09:10

Hi! 1st post in this forum. First of all, thank for ur time. I am super noob at this GPU stuff. I read a lot in other posts / topics to learn a bit from u guys. I really appreaciate.

I want a new monitor. The purpose is not gaming. I want the fastest response monitor available for my office. Sometimes I play, but I dont care about colors. All I need is the fastest one (This is why I think i shouldn´t care about Gsync/freesync since I read they add some input lag, right?). I never saw reviews on web raking monitors like that. I always see rankings like: "Best gaming monitor for 2019".

So my needs:

1) Fast Response monitor
2) Size (I would like a 27" monitor, but if there is a way faster 24 or 24,5, I guess I would make the trade off of size vs response time)

My PC is a I770K @4.2Ghz / GTX1070 / 16gb ram.

I guess I should go for a 240hz monitor?

BTW: If this is not the right place to post, sorry !

EDIT:

these are some monitors I considered:

1) 27" LG 27GK750F 240Hz 1ms Free-Sync Full HD (8.75 total display lag vit TFT central, but i know they didnt measured it in Original mode. so is it safe to say 4.75 Total display lag ?)

2) Dell AW2518HF - 25" 240hz

3) AOC Agon AG322FCX 31,5" 144hz 4ms

4) Asus ROG Strix XG258Q FreeSync, 240Hz ( 4.60ms total display lag via TFTcentral)

5) AG251FG AGON 24,5POL. LED FULL HD 240HZ 1MS NVIDIA G-SYNC (The AG251Fz had 5ms total display lag via TFT central, so AG251FG should be close?)

6) Acer Predator XB271HU 27" (WQHD) 144Hz G-Sync (The Acer XB270HU 3ms total display lag via TFTcentral, so 271 should be close?)

7) Dell 27" S2719DGF 155Hz

8) Dell 27" S2716DG 144Hz WQHD Gsync ( 4.25ms total display lag via TFTcentral)

9) BenQ ZOWIE XL2546 240hz

10) BenQ ZOWIE XL2540 240hz

11) AG271QG QHD GSync 165Hz

Thank you!
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Re: [Help] New monitor

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 06 Jan 2019, 02:05

That's quite the big comparative list!

If low lag is important then you're definitely right about considering high-Hz eSports monitors. That said, for desktop use cases, the 2ms differences usually don't matter.

You'll definitely want at least 144Hz, and 240Hz should also seriously be considered.

As for FreeSync/GSYNC, they are much less lag than VSYNC ON, just a smidgen more average lag than VSYNC OFF. In many cases, the stutter-elimination can help aiming in certain super-stuttery games, compensating for a couple milliseconds extra lag (for 240Hz VRR ON versus VRR OFF). At 240Hz, the lag differential of VRR can be virtually neglible if you're not a paid professional player. And you can turn ON/OFF FreeSync/GSYNC.

Now, the interesting thing is that several 240Hz monitors has better colors than some 144Hz monitors but might have a millisecond or two more absolute lag than the fastest 144Hz. For example, BenQ Zowie XL2546 240Hz has better colors than BenQ Zowie XL2411P 144Hz.

For desktop use, it's worth noting the improving effect on the mouse pointer and window-dragging:

Image

At 240Hz, window-dragging has approximately 1/4th the motion blur of 60Hz. So those extra refresh samples per second (240 opportunities per second) with reduced scanout lag, can more than compensate for a 1ms increase in absolute lag (Picture it this way: Comparing a 240Hz monitor that is 1ms laggier than a specific 120Hz monitor: Having refresh cycles at T+1ms T+5ms T+9ms T+13ms can be better than only having refresh cycles at T+0ms and T+8ms at the Windows desktop).

From this viewpoint, it depends if you're sensitive to absolute lag increase/decrease (144Hz vs 240Hz can be vice-versa depending on model) or sensitive to the lag of low refresh granularities (240Hz can feel better). I've run into some people who prefer one or the other, and a few strive to get both.

Do you need the ability to have (optional) motion blur reduction too as well?

P.S. More 240Hz monitors are listed in the links below:
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       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
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Re: [Help] New monitor

Postby cacs1985 » 06 Jan 2019, 07:42

Chief Blur Buster wrote:That's quite the big comparative list!

For desktop use, it's worth noting the improving effect on the mouse pointer and window-dragging:

Do you need the ability to have (optional) motion blur reduction too as well?:


So that you can understand my needs. This is a video of what I do at work. I think a video explains much better than my bad english can (lol). And maybe you might able to realize some needs that I don´t even know I have. I don´t know... (lol)

Also, turn the volume down. The guy is speaking portuguese.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30cIj6k ... e=youtu.be

At 33:14 of this video, there is a window in the middle of the screen labeled "Times & Trade DOLFUT". As time goes by, the information is updated and the green and pink lines updated go to a lower line and so on. Sometimes, the information flow is so intense that I see some blur. In my calculations, I estimate to lose 500-1000ms in mental processing of information due to blurring. And all I do at work, is look at that window and recognize patterns.

So I guess what I really need is a fast response monitor to help me minimizing blur in window dragging/vertical scrolling?

I did some tests in blurbusters homepage and one of them caught my eyes.

https://www.testufo.com/framerates-text

That is exaclty what I need to improve! Sometimes, at work, the feeling I have is to be looking at the 15fps window.So, I wonder how much a 240hz monitor would improve my work or even if there are some other features in monitors that might be able to help (blur reduction from manufacturers?)

Thank you for your time and support!

Cacs
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New monitor for less blur in real-time stock trading

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 07 Jan 2019, 03:15

Ultra-heavy-duty real time stock trading! Got it.

Yes, that's another fantastic use case if you're doing a lot of window dragging & lots of scrolling, and need to pay attention to a lot of information flying around, scrolling tickers, newswires, press release, and all the motions that often occurs in some programs. It won't help step-scrolling (coarse scrolling) but will greatly help smooth scrolling (like scrolling a browser scrollbar)

It is actually a daytrader's little known secret that a high-Hz eSports gaming monitor helps heavy stock trading because of
(A) Much less display motion blur, you can read newswires / tickers / scrollers faster.
(B) Ultra-low latency, less lag than 60Hz; beat other traders.

On a 240Hz monitor, text scrolling will have 1/4th motion blur of 60Hz.
Doubling refresh rate (and framerate to match) halves motion blur on an LCD screen.
So definitely, 240Hz helps with scrolling blur.

However, don't discount motion blur reduction, if that's a bigger priority -- it can eliminate 90% of scrolling motion blur!

Image
Image

A 240Hz monitor (assuming GtG pixel response is not bottlenecking it) -- will have about 1/240sec persistence = 4ms when not using motion blur reduction.

You can get even better, and get perfect zero blur. Zero-blur CRT clarity on LCD is possible today with a motion blur reduction strobe backlight.. That said, it looks best if you use ~100Hz or ~120Hz. If you decide to use motion blur reduction, be warned about strobe crosstalk which happens more often on some monitors than others.

If you just want to get something quick, and your computer already has an NVIDIA card, you may wish to get a 240Hz GSYNC monitor because it allows you to choose both:
1. It can do 240Hz (75% less motion blur, much better but not fully CRT clarity)
2. It can do user-friendly ULMB at 100Hz, 120Hz and 144Hz (90%-95% less motion blur = CRT clarity)
The monitor lets you switch between (1) and (2)

If your computer isn't NVIDIA, you may wish to try the BenQ Zowie XL2546 which gives you these options:
1. It can do 240Hz (75% less motion blur, much better but not fully CRT clarity)
2. It can do DyAc at any refresh rate (but more strobe crosstalk at higher Hz than lower Hz) and is a bit harder to optimize but you can simply configure it to 120Hz instead of 240Hz and then use Blur Busters Strobe Utility combined with a Large Vertical Total.
The monitor lets you switch between (1) and (2)

Many blur reduction monitors will get dimmer with blur reduction mode but the 24/25 inch 240Hz blur reduction monitors can stay at approximately 300 nits during blur reduction, which is much brighter than the average blur reduction monitor. And for avoiding strobe crosstalk, remember best motion blur reduction occurs when you've got a large margin below max refresh rate. And if it is problematic, one can always simply stick to sheer refresh rate (e.g. 240Hz).
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
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Re: New monitor for less blur in real-time stock trading

Postby cacs1985 » 07 Jan 2019, 05:01

Thank you so much for your answer!!!

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Image


1. Is BenQ blur reduction is better than Acer / Asus / Dell / AOC overall?

2. If I understood you, since I have a Nvidia graphics card, my monitors list is shorter now!

2.1 Acer Predator XB271HU
2.2 Dell Alienware AW2518
2.3 AOC AGON AG251FG
2.4 ASUS ROG Strix XG258Q (https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync-loves ... -monitors/)
2.5 LG 27GK750F

I guess my main question is: What benefit will the GSYNC give me in Dell Alienware AW2518 or
or AOC AGON AG251FG or ASUS ROG Strix XG258Q Freesync supported by Nvidia instead of the LG 27GK750F (that would give me 27" (perfect size), 240hz and motion blur reduction)?
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Re: [Help] New monitor for less blur in real-time stock trad

Postby RealNC » 09 Jan 2019, 14:27

I don't see why you need the fastest response time if you're not doing competitive gaming.
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Re: New monitor for less blur in real-time stock trading

Postby cacs1985 » 09 Jan 2019, 16:03

RealNC wrote:I don't see why you need the fastest response time if you're not doing competitive gaming.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:Ultra-heavy-duty real time stock trading! Got it.

Yes, that's another fantastic use case if you're doing a lot of window dragging & lots of scrolling, and need to pay attention to a lot of information flying around, scrolling tickers, newswires, press release, and all the motions that often occurs in some programs. It won't help step-scrolling (coarse scrolling) but will greatly help smooth scrolling (like scrolling a browser scrollbar)

On a 240Hz monitor, text scrolling will have 1/4th motion blur of 60Hz.
Doubling refresh rate (and framerate to match) halves motion blur on an LCD screen.
So definitely, 240Hz helps with scrolling blur.


Market is competitive enough to make extra ms worth a lot of research to improve in every single way!
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Re: [Help] New monitor for less blur in real-time stock trad

Postby RealNC » 09 Jan 2019, 16:35

But it's humans watching the display. A couple milliseconds are not going to make any difference whatsoever. Any 144Hz display is going to be suitable. If you want to be able to view the image from an angle too, then an IPS is preferable. Otherwise, TN is fine.
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Re: [Help] New monitor for less blur in real-time stock trad

Postby cacs1985 » 12 Jan 2019, 07:01

RealNC wrote:But it's humans watching the display. A couple milliseconds are not going to make any difference whatsoever. Any 144Hz display is going to be suitable. If you want to be able to view the image from an angle too, then an IPS is preferable. Otherwise, TN is fine.



I still want to give higher frequencies a try!

So, my question is still up in the air:

Does anyone see any benefit in GSYNC in n Dell Alienware AW2518 or AOC AGON AG251FG or ASUS ROG Strix XG258Q Freesync supported by Nvidia to make me choose one of them instead of the LG 27GK750F?

I think the 27" LG already have everything I need:
1) size
2) 240hz
3) blur reduction

thank you everyone!
Last edited by cacs1985 on 12 Jan 2019, 07:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Help] New monitor for less blur in real-time stock trad

Postby RealNC » 12 Jan 2019, 07:06

You can't use VRR (gsync or freesync) with blur reduction. Also, VRR only works in games and applications that use graphics APIs (like DirectX and OpenGL.) It's not for desktop applications.
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