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Why I'm done with 240hz

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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby Hypnotic » 26 Mar 2019, 03:50

Hello Notty_Pt what can you say for XG240R Elite https://www.viewsonic.com/eu/products/lcd/XG240R.php have you tried it anymore? is it better or not in any circumstances ?
According to https://pcmonitors.info XG240R is very little bit better in terms of input lag :
https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/viewsonic-xg240r/
https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/viewsonic-xg2402/
According to http://www.displayspecifications.com not :
https://www.displayspecifications.com/e ... /57bb969dc
Luck loves the prepared ones 8-)
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby Hypnotic » 29 Mar 2019, 02:57

I already buy one and my thoughts are OMG the monitor is crazy good but the rgb part is mothing that only the kids want it it's something this special monitor no nead (its not a toy) :) .
Luck loves the prepared ones 8-)
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby alexander1986 » 29 Mar 2019, 11:01

stumbled upon this thread after looking for the best 240hz option to upgrade my good old trusted vg248qe from 2012 :D

am SUPER happy with my vg248qe to this day, running it at 120hz lightboost @10% forever and while 144hz no lightboost feels slightly more responsive / snappy the motion blur is making me sick lol, think im sensitive to motion blur as an old ex-quake on CRT monitor-player :P


anyway today my game is more or less only fortnite and was looking to both upgrade monitor to 240hz and rest of hardware on my pc aswell, however im very aware having 240 fps steady in this game is only possible in very few situations, no matter how good CPU/GPU/RAM you have, in competitive endgame situations with many players in small area and so on its straight up impossible to have 240 fps, even in non-competitive situations its impossible as long as there is complex areas in your field of view or lot of players in small area and so on,


but I was still thinking its maybe worth it to upgrade to 240hz monitor and also upgrade pc hardware to atleast have benefits of 240hz scanout on monitor coupled with atleast sometimes having 240 fps, and in many situations 150-240, and in few endgame situations it will be lower ofcourse, but after reading this thread and also a lot of other feedback from different people on 240hz vs 144 hz, I think I come to conclusion i'm better off keeping my good old vg248qe, and investing in better cpu/ram/gpu only, instead of investing in better cpu/ram/gpu PLUS a 240hz monitor?


what I wonder also is how is the idea of 240 fps cap on 120 hz 10% lightboost together with very strong cpu/gpu/ram? would it be better than for example 120 fps / 120 hz 10% lightboost? or is the more steady 120/120 option better you think?


today I have already 120fps cap/120 hz 10%lightboost but have old pc that regularly drops framerate in intense situations, and in these situations mouse input feels like shit because cpu is too weak to properly handle mouse input and the game at same time, happens both with lightboost off or on, so im left thinking should I only upgrade cpu-ram-gpu or also monitor to 240 hz? after some thinking it seems the monitor upgrade to 240 hz is not worth it and can in fact actually be worse for aim and input, unless we are locked at 240 fps 100% of the time, which we will never be in fortnite even at lowest quality settings and low resolutions,


for the record I have ancient pc today, i5-3470 with 2x4gb ddr3 1333mhz ram, with gtx 1060 6gb, will upgrade to something like 9600k/9700k with z390 motherboard and 2x8gb 3200mhz cl16 ram with rtx 2060/2070, and will make some decent overclocks on cpu and gpu aswell, I have feeling this would be enough for me to get a huge improvement in gaming and dont really need a 240hz monitor, you guys think this is correct? after I upgrade, do you think 240 fps cap @ 120 hz lightboost is better than 120/120 also?


sorry for long post and a bit confusing perhaps, but appreciate any feedback :P

cheers
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby Hypnotic » 30 Mar 2019, 03:09

In my opinion steady fps is the 1st thing you should care after this everything is polishing more or less , many times the polishing part made huge improvements on the end of the journey (reading reviews and shopping) :) .
Luck loves the prepared ones 8-)
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby hwk55 » 16 Apr 2019, 14:39

Hi!

I do not know if I understood this topic well.

If I have a 240hz monitor - That setting up a smaller refreshing (eg 60) will I experience problems - delay, jams etc?

If I have a very good 144hz monitor - by setting eg 60 or 120hz the picture will still be good?

I had AW2518HF. At 250hz in cs: everything was fine. After entering the BF5 and 60-80fps continuous problems.

I wanted to order your VIEWSONIC notty, is this a good choice in my case?
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby masneb » 17 Apr 2019, 03:00

Just to input something that I don't think has been discussed here. One of the problems the VG248QE doesn't have that a PG258Q has that I think makes a very big difference is pixel smearing. The PG258Q refresh is so fast, it can refresh a pixel that never fully transitions to the next state it needs to be in from the last refresh. This leads to 'smearing' and can cause the image to become garbled, where as with the VG248QE the response time of the pixels is fast enough to keep up with the refresh rate so the monitor always reaches a fully 'refreshed' state where the pixels are the right color they're supposed to be before they transition to the next state with the next refresh.

Due to how fast the PG258Q refreshes, depending on the color the pixel is shifting from-to, it can go through two refreshes without ever being the right color at the right time.

You see this more on IPS panels when everyone thought IPS panels could be gaming panels too if they have a high enough refresh rate even though the response time isn't nearly fast enough to keep up. You end up with a smear image rather then something that more or less resembles ULMB. You get a snapshot of the picture.

This is one of the first downsides I noticed with a PG258Q and OLED will definitely offset this.
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby blurbustingbunny » 19 Apr 2019, 13:53

Notty_PT wrote:
I would totally dismiss the RGB lightning, just like you! But I doin´t use strobing aswell because my eyes don´t let me do so. I don´t like the input lag increase anyway, but my eyes start screaming at me in 20 minutes usage. I´m too sensitive to flickering and I´m very worried about health in the long term. Some people ignore it, but sooner or later you will pay from your bad habits!

Even if I wasn´t a PC gamer (sometimes I don´t even play PC at all for months), I would still get a 120hz/144hz monitor for webbrowsing or daily workflow (office, music production etc), because it is way easier on the eyes. Until today I still think 60hz is not an acceptable refresh rate for PC usage. It is acceptable with Vsync on 3d engines.


Even if you don't use strobing, in the times you've used it, can you notice a difference in motion clarity?
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby daviddave1 » 25 Aug 2019, 18:38

Notty_PT wrote:First of all I want to say that this is my personal experience and point of view. I will not accept that you hate on me if you have different experiences. I truly respect everyone that has a different opinion, but his is mine.

Long story short, I had 5 240hz monitors in total. I still have an AlienWare AW2518HF and an Asus XG248Q. From all the 240hz monitors I tested, Asus XG248Q was by far the best. Not only the smaller screen size makes me play better, but also the input lag is the lowest I ever tried, 240hz wise. This monitor is also good to connect a console as the 60hz input lag is very good, but that´s not what matters here.

After I used 240hz for almost 2 years now, I reached the conclusion that 240hz is not for me.

Starting with the real advantages 240hz delivered to my gaming experience:

1- It can offer objectively lower input lag than any 144hz monitor

2- Not worrying about capping framerates or dealing with external limiters or buggy internal ones, is a plus

3- Desktop usage, web browsing, is pleasant due to the smoothness

And that´s it. Now the problems I faced:

1- If I can´t sustain steady 220fps-240fps, the overdrive gets wonky, the ghosting is all over the place and the smoothness is gone.

2- Modern day CPUs can´t keep up with 240hz. Doesn´t matter if you have a 9900k @ 5ghz, you wil not be able to sustan steady 220fps-240fps in a lot of games:

- Battlefield V
- Black Ops 4
- Escape from Tarkov
- Fortnite
- Pubg
- Battlefield 1
- Destiny 2
- Rainbow 6
- GTA 5
- WW 2
- The Division
- Gears of War 4

I am excluding GPU bottlenecks, as I play at low resolution scales to get the most FPS I can possible get.

I can have steady 220-240 on Overwatch, Quake Live (20 years old engine) and CS:GO. And that´s it. So only in older engines or really light ones. As I mentioned on the first point, not being able to sustain high framerates on 240hz monitors is asking for problems. But will elaborate more.

3- The fact that I can´t sustain a steady framerate creates not only worse overdrive but the most important thing: It messes up my aim.. If you watch Battle(non)sense videos (and I´m quoting him because he is well known so is a good source) or if you talk with any great pro player; they all tell you that having a steady framerate is one of the most important things for aiming.

Why? Because the mouse sensitivity is always different if the framerate is fluctuating, as frame times are different all the time, and it totally messes up your muscle memory. Having a steady tight frame time is crucial for a good aim. I can´t have this on a 240hz monitor because on most games framerates are all over the place.

So I have a really low input lag but that doesn´t help me a single bit when my muscle memory has to adapt all the time. While if I cap a game to 120fps-141fps (depending on VRR etc) on a 144hz monitor, my aim is perfect, tight, consistent!

Also as a plus, any modern CPU can do 120-141 fps easily! You don´t even need clocks higher than 3,7ghz/3.9ghz on Intel for that to happen, as long as you have enough threads. An i5 8400 for example is enough. The only game I couldn´t sustain steady 120-141fps was Pubg because is badly optimized. But I sill prefer 100-140 fluctuations to the 100-180 that I have with a 240hz screen.

4- Panel optimization. I don´t think 240hz panels are matured enough. I will explain why. If you look at rtings review of my favourite 144hz monitor, the ViewSonic XG2402, or even the pcmonitors one, you will see that not only it has better pixel response time than any 240hz monitor tested, but the input lag is only 0,4ms slower than a 240hz monitor like the Benq XL2546. And this is 144hz vs 240hz!! Wich shows us that 240hz panels can go way lower input lag wise, but they are not simply matured enough.

Image

I have the ViewSonic XG2402 and I swear you will have a hard time noticing the input lag differences between its 144hz experience and a 240hz monitor. Trust me. You can slightly notice it but if you put them side by side you will keep switching between them to finally reach the conclusion that 240hz is faster. Is not easy to spot that.

Also a good mature 144hz panel has great overdrive. Again, the XG2402 is a perfect example. It barely shows signs of overshoot at most presets, as PCmonitors also stated, and the response time is really fast, to the point that the motion clarity is very very good. And this is all while keeping an easy 120fps-141fps cap.


So, in conclusion; to me 240hz is pointless. This took me almost 2 years and a lot of testing around many models, to find out. I aim worse; my CPU is "crying" with usage; fps spikes occur; overdrive is wonky as soon as you drop from the really high framerate values; the input lag advantage is not enough for me to play better.

I use to practice my aim on both Quake and Aim Hero. Aim Hero is a game to strictly practice aim. This is the setup I use to practice, for anyone interested:

Image

Now, at 144hz my average score after 50 rounds was 41350.
At 240hz my average score after 50 rounds was 39950.

Really close results. We can consider that I aimed as good with 144hz as I do with 240hz. The thing is that this engine is light, so I could use a steady 239fps cap without any fluctuation at 240hz. Same thing with the 143fps cap I used at 144hz. But in a game where my fps are all over the place, I end up aiming worse. My LG accuracy on Quake is higher with 144hz aswell. I can track enemies perfectly without any frame fluctuation. I can´t be as good at 240hz with fluctuations. I reached 58% LG at 144hz several times. I never did with 240hz.

Keep in mind 58% LG is extremely hard to do, even against bots that barely move. LG is my strongest weapon and I practiced a lot of it. Once again, 144hz makes take the best out of it.

And that´s basically it. Sorry for the long text. This isn´t by any means an universal truth. This is my opinion, point of view and personal experience. This thread is only telling you that to me 240hz weren´t worth it.

I´m about to sell all my 240hz models now and will stick to my ViewSonic XG2402. Maybe in few years new models come out and new CPUs with crazy good IPC and clock speeds can sustain 220fps-240fps easily on any engine. That´s why tech is always evolving. For now I will stick to the refresh rate that offers me enough smoothness and makes me, at least, as good as if I was using 240hz.


I just bought the Acer Predator XB252Q 240Hz two weeks ago. (After selling my G-Sync 27" 240Hz Acer Predator XB272 cause the screen was to big i played on this one for more then two years. )
I have send the XB252Q back to the store and got my money back and have gotten a ViewSonic XG2402 for 180 euros on Amazon.de with 2 years garantee. Its like new. Not a single scratch.
I have to say i feel that PUBG and aspeccially Quake Champions feels better. These games are not made for 240hz. Its no wonder that of the 200 or so monitors on https://prosettings.net/pubg-pro-settings-gear-list/ only 35 ish have a 240hz screen. ( 45 x BenQ XL2411P 144hz 25 x BenQ XL2430 etc)

Notty_PT sir. i concur im done now too for a while with 240hz TY.
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby BlurBoss » 29 Sep 2019, 06:44

I think I found the best 144 Hz monitor. Check out this thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5823
BenQ XL2546, i9-9900K @ 5.0 GHz, RTX 2080 Ti, 32GB (2 x 16GB) 3200 MHz CL14 RAM, Asrock Z390 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ac.
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