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Why I'm done with 240hz

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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby noname » 30 Jan 2019, 13:05

I managed to fix this with the 144hz of the benQ. The xl2411z was working perfect but i sold it for getting this xl2546. I shouldn't do it. It's fine, il find a way. Thanks for your help.
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby Notty_PT » 30 Jan 2019, 13:19

MatrixQW wrote:
noname wrote:If i move it from left to right and viceversa repeatedly the monitor starts producing like 10 copies of the same model thru the screen statically but if i move it slow enough this problem doesn't exist.

One year ago i had a CRT at 160hz. I did the same left/right movement and got the same results as you.
Maybe the phospor was too old but i believe even on a CRT this happens if you move too fast.

Notty_PT is the one to ask for a blur sample.
I'm waiting for XG2402 price to go down in my country.

I think ViewSonic should have added for XG240R some better speakers and some blur reduction mode instead of the RGB light, to add value to the monitor and gain more users. Maybe with these, the 350€ would be worth it for some.
I would not use blur reduction due to flickering and added input lag but at least people would have a choice.


I would totally dismiss the RGB lightning, just like you! But I doin´t use strobing aswell because my eyes don´t let me do so. I don´t like the input lag increase anyway, but my eyes start screaming at me in 20 minutes usage. I´m too sensitive to flickering and I´m very worried about health in the long term. Some people ignore it, but sooner or later you will pay from your bad habits!

Even if I wasn´t a PC gamer (sometimes I don´t even play PC at all for months), I would still get a 120hz/144hz monitor for webbrowsing or daily workflow (office, music production etc), because it is way easier on the eyes. Until today I still think 60hz is not an acceptable refresh rate for PC usage. It is acceptable with Vsync on 3d engines.
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby MatrixQW » 30 Jan 2019, 13:21

Notty_PT, about the fps:
Bear in mind that silicon can't be stretched much more, that's why cpu's are getting more cores.
Games keep getting more demanding and you will never reach a stability.
So to get to those 240fps you will need to wait for quantum cpu's.
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby Notty_PT » 30 Jan 2019, 15:23

The problem here is the fact Intel didn´t have competition for 7 years so they slowed down the research on CPU technology. I firmly believe we can have way more IPC on modern day CPUs. Intel stayed with a 4 core 8 thread chip as the top tier mainstream product for almost 10 years. And they didn´t bother increasing IPC at all.

With DDR5 coming soon, wich will allow us speeds of 6000mhz with low latencies, plus 7nm CPUs reaching 6ghz soon, I believe we can have a 240fps stable experience. But this won´t happen any soon and I agree that modern engines will appear and will stress the hardware more.

This is why Chief keeps saying that in the future, if we want to enjoy higher refresh rate experiences, we need some kind of doubling framerate compensation without adding artifacts or input lag, for PC first person shooter titles mainly. Because let me assure you can´t have anything as smooth as playing on a PS4 connected to a Samsung QN 2018 TV + Game Motion Plus. Wich does an amazing interpolation with few artifacts, and creates a smoother effect than even 240hz at 240fps! Input lag is 27ms tho, so is not suited for e-sports, but is suited for single player experiences or slower games.

Without doubling framerate techniques, it will be hard to fully enjoy 240hz+ panels. Is just too demanding for hardware. But if we at least can get a good 240hz panel that has no overdrive or input lag problems when you use it at lower refresh rates like 180hz or 144hz, that would be already good!
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby oskansavli » 30 Jan 2019, 15:40

Notty_PT wrote:For now as it is, my 2 fav gaming monitors:

- ViewSonic XG2402 (for best pixel response time on FPS games)
- MSI Optix MAG241C (for someone that prefers image quality)


Notty_PT, how much blur difference there is between those two? I've recently bought a MAG241C, it's clearly better than my old 60Hz but I never tried a 144Hz TN monitor. I know XG2402 is kinda the best one and it's better than MAG241C. But is MAG241C is as good as an average 144Hz TN monitor for FPS games? I wonder if buying an XG2402 will make the fast movements in FPS games look more clear.
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 30 Jan 2019, 16:10

oskansavli wrote:Notty_PT, how much blur difference there is between those two? I've recently bought a MAG241C, it's clearly better than my old 60Hz but I never tried a 144Hz TN monitor. I know XG2402 is kinda the best one and it's better than MAG241C. But is MAG241C is as good as an average 144Hz TN monitor for FPS games? I wonder if buying an XG2402 will make the fast movements in FPS games look more clear.

Once you've got an average 144Hz TN, most 144Hz TN panels look almost the same to most eyes in terms of motion blur.

Currently, at full framerate, the motion blur of a frame rate follows what I currently call Blur Buster's Law.

1ms of pixel visibility time = 1 pixel of motion blur per 1000 pixels/second.

So at 144fps at 144Hz, you got 1/144sec = 6.9ms of minimum possible pixel visibility time, pixels can't be visible any briefer than that. So you're minimum motion blur is now now averaging about 7 pixels of motion blurring whenever your frame rate maxes out. There's also pixel response on top of that (1ms GtG) but that's extremely minor.
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby oskansavli » 30 Jan 2019, 16:35

I forgot to mention that I don't use MAG241C in fastest mode since it gets too dark and freesync gets disabled. So it's more than 1ms GtG. (Even at fastest mode I've heard GtG is greater than 1ms on VA panels).
Let's say if the response time is 5ms, would it mean pixel visibility time is 6.9 + 5 ~= 12ms instead of 6.9 + 1 ~= 8ms of a TN monitor?
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby Notty_PT » 30 Jan 2019, 16:55

oskansavli wrote:I forgot to mention that I don't use MAG241C in fastest mode since it gets too dark and freesync gets disabled. So it's more than 1ms GtG. (Even at fastest mode I've heard GtG is greater than 1ms on VA panels).
Let's say if the response time is 5ms, would it mean pixel visibility time is 6.9 + 5 ~= 12ms instead of 6.9 + 1 ~= 8ms of a TN monitor?


You have an amazing monitor, let me assure you that! But is VA and is objectively slower than TN. However is still the fastest VA oanel I used! You can see the same panel reviewed on pcmonitors Aoc C24G1 review wich uses the same panel (is the new Samsung 1500r curved panel).

The "problem" and the most noticeable thing if you compare it to Xg2402 is the obvious higher input lag. But according to rtings every samsung Va panel has way lower input lag once you activate Freesync. Since I borrowed my optix mag241c before this driver enabled gsync, I didnt try it with VRR enabled yet!

Do you notice any input lag decrease just on windows desktop by enabling gsync/freesync on the driver control panel? If you do, there's a high chance it is close to XG2402 input lag.

I might get my optix back tomorrow and will test it again with vrr.

Also keep in mind VRR improves motion clarity so there is a high chance VA + vrr delivers a good experience. Chief maybe can explain why I feel VRR adds motion clarity (maybe because frames are synched?).

Meanwhile can you test input lag differences when using VRR? Tell me if you do please, thanks!

On an additional note, curved panel is a plus, way less eye strain and easier to spot info on the edges of the screen.
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby oskansavli » 30 Jan 2019, 17:56

I didn't notice it and I don't think I can notice input lag differences. I even use wireless mouse and keyboard. My eyes are not that sensitive yet :)
The blurs on testufo.com or in the games are pretty clear though. It changes when I switch between Normal/Fast/Fastest modes.

Ok another question. Does your XG2402 gets hot after some use? My MAG241C stays pretty cold except the bottom right of the screen which I think has the internal power adapter. The TN panels I've seen in the shop were all hot though. Is this a TN/VA panel difference?
Hot monitors really annoy me after long use, I can even get headaches because of this.

Also on my MAG241C, the right side of the screen has a little more pink on white backgrounds. Do you notice anything like that?
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Re: Why I'm done with 240hz

Postby Notty_PT » 31 Jan 2019, 18:30

Got my Optix MAG241c, absolutely no difference on input lag when VRR is ON or OFF, wich shows even more that Asus models are laggier with Gsync activated. So is not a driver related thing!
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