Poor image quality after bad reboot

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Re: Poor image quality after bad reboot

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 30 Oct 2018, 15:34

Clarifications needed:

1. Have you tried a different graphics card?
There may now be a defect in the graphics card's output stage that's forcing permanent scaling stage of some kind.
ZonePhoenix wrote:The gpu was a 980 and im still using it
3. When you tested a different rig (including completely different graphics card and/or Radeon), did the problem disappear?

4. Yes, that'd be what I'd expect for scaling behavior. But for #4, you attached a simulation, right?
(Not photographed since too hard to photograph sometimes and this Imgur attachment is too perfect, but not screenshotted since screenshots won't capture GPU-side scaling issues)
If possible, can you count the number of bands across (horizontal) and number of bands down (vertical) for full screen? This number of bands is the delta between correct resolution and scaled resolution, so this number may provide useful important data, such as 5% (which is a common percentage for HDMI overscan scaling) which would provide a new diagnostics path.
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Re: Poor image quality after bad reboot

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 30 Oct 2018, 15:37

Now, assuming this is a possible HDTV overscan/underscan scaling issue (which can also occur on DisplayPort or DVI or VGA too, but ideally should really not happen to DisplayPort).

(1) Search your whole registry for "EnOverscanComp". If one exist, zero-out this value.
(2) Also have you tried this in NVIDIA Control Panel:

Image

Source: reddit

You may have to do this with a different graphics card, since something (damage, defect) in the 980 might be making this setting stuck permanent. For HDTV compatibility, there is a hardware override built into many GeForce cards that does the same thing as the software, so it's possible for a hardware defect (e.g. short) to cause permanent scaling problems. Also, try disabling HDMI audio. Damage to HDMI audio can wreak havoc with this trigger for HDTV overscan compensation (~5% scaling!) -- since many graphics card assume HDTV requires overscan compensation, and any use of HDMI audio creates an outdated assumption that you're connecting to an HDTV. Years ago, HDTVs did not have pixel perfect mapping, especially tube-based HDTVs such as the popular Toshiba TN40X81 from the late 1999/early 2000 -- and when connecting computers (originally via Component Video), you had to apply a 5% underscan for the PC to allow the HDTV to do a 5% overscan. This underscan output for HDTV overscan mode still persists to the digital era sometimes, and needless to say, creates scaling artifacts even though the resolution is correct. If a graphics card is stuck in HDTV overscan compensation mode via a short, no amount of drivers fiddling will override this, and you need to test out a different/newer GPU.

*** Catch22 And remember.... testing a 2nd tower WILL NOT (right away) FIX the problem until you reset everything (reset the software) in order to correctly clear the computer-side overscan bit. AND you go through the display menus again to go to 1:1 pixel mapping rather than incorrectly overscan-compensating an underscanned image. So once you've test a different GPU than the 980, make sure you reset the graphics drivers settings (e.g. via the above technique, or via reinstalling graphics driver). Because there's a display-side overscan compensator and a computer-side overscan compensator. Basically, it's possible for a GPU to send an underscanned signal and the display to overscan the underscanned signal, so you end up with a scaled (twice) image with the display reaching corners.

What happens is a hair-pulling session of seeing black borders around the image unless you fiddle the monitor. And with a different computer, the display may be zoomed beyond the borders (cropping off part of the taskbar) unless you fiddle. And the most maddening situation: A perfectly sized image that has scaling artifacts! (That's cuz it's scaled twice).

Four situations can happen:
(A) Normal output that is displayed normally yay 1:1 pixel mapping
(B) Underscanned output that is displayed normally black borders (1 problem to fix)
(C) Normal output that is displayed overscanned cropped taskbar (1 problem to fix)
(D) Underscanned output that is displayed overscanned perfectly sized image with scaling artifact (2 problems to fix)

(B)/(C)/(D) always have softening & scaling artifacts. Bands in lagom test.

If your problem is (D).... You got 2 simultaneous problems (one of which might be caused by hardware, the other being cause-and effect from earlier tweaking). The trap is you're perpetually trying to fix 2 problems into 1 problem then back to 2 problems, never quite going all the way down to 0 problem because (D) often looks better than (B) and (C) but the catch 22 is that being at (D) makes it harder to go to (A) !!! .... You have a very fiddly interact-with-each-other troubleshoot (see my warning "*** Catch22" above) that may require adjusting both computer and the display. You ideally (preferably) want to go to (B) and (C) because that means you've fixed 1 of 2 problems, and then the remainder side becomes a simpler troubleshoot. If you accidentally go to (D) again, REVERSE the steps ("ITS A TRAP") and then try a different troubleshoot path.

<Grumble>Legacy Overscan Standards</Grumble>
Many HDTVs still automatically scale a HDTV broadcast by ~2.5% around the edges (5% total overscan), and that can soften the text edges around onscreen menus. This legacy crap also extends to monitors which still have a built-in overscan mode which should stay dormant for computers connected via most cables. Even your garden-variety DELL monitor has this overscan mode hidden in it -- sometimes not even visible in menus -- never used by PC users -- and only activates with an HDMI cable with an audio channel, or some other signal that looks like it comes from a television tuner. Slowly all being deprecated, but it still ails us to this date, especially if one device gets stuck.


NOTE:
If you are not getting (B) or (C) or (D) in what seems to be the image-softening behaviour of an approximately 5% scaling factor (either as one-pass or two-pass scaling), then your problem is unrelated to this. But this is the strongest theory I have at the moment...
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ZonePhoenix
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Re: Poor image quality after bad reboot

Post by ZonePhoenix » 31 Oct 2018, 03:56

Ive tested different rigs with different cards they're all bad compared to my original rig pre blowout

I searched for that registry entry it's not in my registry anywhere

The monitor im using is an Acer XB240H, it's connected over DP it has g-sync and has no hardware scaler so there shouldn't really be anything that can go wrong unless it's just not receiving a strong signal for whatever reason

As far as the scaling/pixel mapping not being 1:1, im not sure that's really the problem, refer to this image:

https://i.imgur.com/NQqEr9n.png

You will see in the image the top and bottom are both being drawn with the exact same amount of pixels

The pixels are just being represented with less color and intensity on the bottom which is what kills the contrast ratio and then the sharpness. Yes i understand its a screenshot of my taskbar but realise this difference happens everywhere

So i just can't explain why that is the case other than for some reason my old rig could just produce a stronger output for whatever reason. Possibly more voltage going to the board and/or pci-e lanes? More voltage going to the ram? Better quality ram? Either way there's a big big dropoff in quality and i seem to be the only person in the entire world who's experienced this :shock:

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Re: Poor image quality after bad reboot

Post by RealNC » 31 Oct 2018, 08:00

Well, DPI scaling has changed since 2016. Or you did a tweak in your old rig that you forgot about.
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Re: Poor image quality after bad reboot

Post by ZonePhoenix » 31 Oct 2018, 22:09

RealNC wrote:Well, DPI scaling has changed since 2016. Or you did a tweak in your old rig that you forgot about.
You completely missed the point of the thread dude

Ive got a completely seperate skylake test bench running windows 7 and that's also bad

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Re: Poor image quality after bad reboot

Post by RealNC » 31 Oct 2018, 23:00

ZonePhoenix wrote:
RealNC wrote:Well, DPI scaling has changed since 2016. Or you did a tweak in your old rig that you forgot about.
You completely missed the point of the thread dude

Ive got a completely seperate skylake test bench running windows 7 and that's also bad
If the rest of the world's rigs all look the same, but your old rig looked different, have you considered that it's your old rig that had a bug and looked pixelated, instead of the rest of the world's rigs being broken?
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Re: Poor image quality after bad reboot

Post by ZonePhoenix » 31 Oct 2018, 23:43

RealNC wrote: If the rest of the world's rigs all look the same, but your old rig looked different, have you considered that it's your old rig that had a bug and looked pixelated, instead of the rest of the world's rigs being broken?
Was one hell of an awesome bug to have then, i get eye strain and i cant even see what the fuck im shooting at in games on my so called "correct" rig that i have now, how can i make it "buggy" again?

Besides i already found screenshots from another person who was outputting the same as my old rig, but he stopped replying after 1 message so i couldn't get any more info from him but he was on a haswell rig

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Re: Poor image quality after bad reboot

Post by RealNC » 01 Nov 2018, 10:59

ZonePhoenix wrote:Besides i already found screenshots from another person who was outputting the same as my old rig, but he stopped replying after 1 message so i couldn't get any more info from him but he was on a haswell rig
Is there something specific you'd like a screenshot of? Just to see if my setup here happens to match your old rig.
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Re: Poor image quality after bad reboot

Post by ZonePhoenix » 02 Nov 2018, 02:03

RealNC wrote:
ZonePhoenix wrote:Besides i already found screenshots from another person who was outputting the same as my old rig, but he stopped replying after 1 message so i couldn't get any more info from him but he was on a haswell rig
Is there something specific you'd like a screenshot of? Just to see if my setup here happens to match your old rig.
Bottom right desktop taskbar is easiest, preferably at 115% dpi since that was what my original was at

Or if you have the division, any screenshots from that game

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Re: Poor image quality after bad reboot

Post by RealNC » 02 Nov 2018, 11:58

I don't have that game.

Here's two screenshots from my desktop. 115%:

Image

And 125%, which is what I actually use myself:

Image
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