What makes 240hz better than 144hz for competitive?

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Notty_PT
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Re: What makes 240hz better than 144hz for competitive?

Post by Notty_PT » 15 Jul 2019, 13:17

garetjax wrote:I overclocked my BenQ to 215hz from 144hz this weekend, and I am amazed at the results. In Overwatch for 1 character, Pharah, which uses basically the rocket launcher from Quake 3, my normally accuracy was about 43%. After overclocking I have been consistently in the 50s during a weekend of play. So for me there is a huge difference. This will definitely hold me over until the next gen 240hz panel/monitor reviews come out.
Wich Benq model did you overclock? An old 27 inch one?

Higher accuracies/performance are indeed one of the big reasons I stick with mine too. After I played on XG258Q my LG (pure tracking weapon) on Quake went to this, wich is in line with the 2 best LG users in the world. And I didn´t ever consider myself anything close to them. When you look at results and you see you are actually doing better, that´s when you know it is worth it.

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Re: What makes 240hz better than 144hz for competitive?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 15 Jul 2019, 13:56

mewthree wrote:The only real benefit you get from monitors is low input lag. If you have lower input lag your aim is going to feel more snappy.
144hz monitors look smooth enough. Although 240hzs add that minimal amount of improvement it's no end all be all. So, what really makes 240s objectively better than 144-hertz monitors.
It's not just about lag.

Not just lag, but also better temporal resolution.

Doubling the refresh rate halves motion blur
(Assuming frame rate = refresh rate, and strobe-based motion blur reduction turned off)
That's when you exclude other temporals from display limitations such as GtG or DLP temporal dithering etc. A very slow-GtG 240Hz may not be much better than 144Hz, but an ultra-fast-GtG 0.5ms 240Hz looks noticeably twice as clear motion during fast motion than even the best 120Hz monitor. Pixel response (GtG) will need to speed up to remain a tiny fraction of a refresh cycle, to make sure we can continue doubling motion clarity.

When you look at http://www.testufo.com at different refresh rates, this is what you see:

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That's why 480Hz and 1000Hz will also be useful, to get lagless strobeless ULMB someday -- see 1000Hz Journey article.

It will have less phantomarray effect (including pillars, enemies and wall edges stroboscopically jumping)

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We were the first to test 480Hz here.

In some situations, a 1ms-laggier 240Hz monitor is superior to a 1ms-less-laggy 120Hz monitor, because of the extra scanout opportunities (see high speed videos of scanout latency). For example, the first 20ms of refresh cycles of 120Hz versus 240Hz.
120Hz = 2ms, 10ms, 18ms
240Hz = 3ms, 7ms, 11ms, 15ms, 19ms

So you can see, the first refresh cycle of the 240Hz monitor would be 1ms lagged, but there's 2 extra refresh cycle opportunities in the first 20 milliseconds of refresh cycles that the 120Hz does not give you. That reduced scanout latency can sometimes overcome absolute latency (Remember: There's multiple latency numbers for a display). It's best to have less lag obviously, where possible but there are so many latency metrics that interact with each other (latency consistency, scanout latency, absolute latency, etc) in a multi-layered manner.

Strobeless blur reduction requires insane Hz to eliminate motion blur & eliminate stroboscopics simultaneously.
The refresh rate race to retina refresh rates will continue. How would you like lagless stutterless flickerless phantom-arrayless full-brightness ULMB HDR+ strobelessly? That's retina refresh rates...

It's pretty plainly clear that we're still far away from retina refresh rates in all departments (fix motion blur, fix all stroboscopics, fix blur WITHOUT strobing, fix phantom arrays, etc). As soon as the monitor industry can do even higher Hz cheaply, the monitor industry will -- the benefits are still definitely human visible even if you have to dramatically jump the diminishing curve to see the benefits. One has to jump geometrically -- 60Hz -> 120Hz -> 240Hz -> 480Hz -> 960/1000Hz -- for it to be worthwhile.

Also, we will have Frame Rate Amplification Technology to get 1000fps out of midrange GPUs too, by the time 1000Hz displays arrive during the 2020s or 2030s decade.

There are so many advantages of higher-Hz other than latency that are human visible.

TL;DR: It's not just about lag.
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garetjax
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Re: What makes 240hz better than 144hz for competitive?

Post by garetjax » 15 Jul 2019, 15:06

Notty_PT wrote:
garetjax wrote:I overclocked my BenQ to 215hz from 144hz this weekend, and I am amazed at the results. In Overwatch for 1 character, Pharah, which uses basically the rocket launcher from Quake 3, my normally accuracy was about 43%. After overclocking I have been consistently in the 50s during a weekend of play. So for me there is a huge difference. This will definitely hold me over until the next gen 240hz panel/monitor reviews come out.
Wich Benq model did you overclock? An old 27 inch one?

Higher accuracies/performance are indeed one of the big reasons I stick with mine too. After I played on XG258Q my LG (pure tracking weapon) on Quake went to this, wich is in line with the 2 best LG users in the world. And I didn´t ever consider myself anything close to them. When you look at results and you see you are actually doing better, that´s when you know it is worth it.

Image
I overclocked my BenQ XL2430T- its a 24 incher. It has the S switch so its really easy. I couldn't use the utility Chief Blurbuster recommended to fix the colors, whenever I tried enabling movie mode and activating it my screen locked up. I just manually adjusted colors and its fine. I haven't really messed with Chiefs strobe utility besides knocking it down to 5 has he recommended as to not do any voltage damage.

Off topic but how long have you been using AimHero and has it helped you?

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Re: What makes 240hz better than 144hz for competitive?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 15 Jul 2019, 15:27

garetjax wrote:I overclocked my BenQ XL2430T- its a 24 incher. It has the S switch so its really easy. I couldn't use the utility Chief Blurbuster recommended to fix the colors, whenever I tried enabling movie mode and activating it my screen locked up. I just manually adjusted colors and its fine. I haven't really messed with Chiefs strobe utility besides knocking it down to 5 has he recommended as to not do any voltage damage.
Nice! You overclocked your 144Hz BenQ XL2430T to 215Hz -- are you able to do that without the S-Switch?

Note: Generally, you don't need to worry about adjusting the Persistence setting on newer XL2430Ts as the overvoltage bug only affects early firmwares, most XL2720Z. So it should be safe. Try briefly adjusting Persistence upwards and then back down. If your monitor blacks out and shuts down, unplug your monitor from power immediately, go to 60Hz to turn off blur reduction, change Persistence back, and you'll know you have the overvoltage bug of early firmwares (mainly XL2720Z V2) with blur reduction.
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Notty_PT
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Re: What makes 240hz better than 144hz for competitive?

Post by Notty_PT » 15 Jul 2019, 16:28

Is it normal for Benq XL2430t to overvlock sucessfully to 200hz+? Or was it just luck?

Edit: just seen the thread, sorry, that's amazing! How does the response time keep up? Because those models have better overdrive than 24,5 240hz models!

As for Aim Hero, it didnt help me much tbh, is more of a fun benchmark, nothing is better than actually playing the game you want to get better at!

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Re: What makes 240hz better than 144hz for competitive?

Post by whitepuzzle » 15 Jul 2019, 16:43

I'm waiting for the XG240R of 240Hz to show up – minimal input lag, near perfect overdrive tuning and good image quality. Until then, I'd rather not be a 240Hz beta tester.

My 27GK750F was actually pretty nice, but sadly, 27" is not as nice as 24".

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Re: What makes 240hz better than 144hz for competitive?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 15 Jul 2019, 17:14

Notty_PT wrote:Is it normal for Benq XL2430t to overvlock sucessfully to 200hz+? Or was it just luck?
Edit: just seen the thread, sorry, that's amazing! How does the response time keep up? Because those models have better overdrive than 24,5 240hz models!
A 144Hz BenQ overclocked to 200-220Hz apparently works really well though you have to reset the AMA settings to get it looking good. It's been reliable (darn near 100% success) in XL2720 / XL2720Z but it looks like some mixed success reports on others (e.g. XL2430T only worked to 215Hz). Your color depth will look slightly different because it will now use GPU-driven 6-bit FRC instead of monitor-driven 6-bit FRC. The quality actually can be reasonably good if you readjust your colors, things are noticeably lower latency, though the color quality can slightly degrade.

For method without S-Switch, see BenQ UNIVERSAL 144Hz->220Hz OVERCLOCK for 144Hz 1080p DP
For method with S-Switch, see S-Switch 220Hz Overclock Hack
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Notty_PT
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Re: What makes 240hz better than 144hz for competitive?

Post by Notty_PT » 16 Jul 2019, 14:57

whitepuzzle wrote:I'm waiting for the XG240R of 240Hz to show up – minimal input lag, near perfect overdrive tuning and good image quality. Until then, I'd rather not be a 240Hz beta tester.

My 27GK750F was actually pretty nice, but sadly, 27" is not as nice as 24".
That´s a very smart thing to do if you ask me. It will eventually appear and you will know about it first here ,most likekely :)

Altho Oled 144hz will be a thing soon, and if that has good input lag, it is a really good candidate for "best thing ever"

Q83Ia7ta
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Re: What makes 240hz better than 144hz for competitive?

Post by Q83Ia7ta » 17 Jul 2019, 08:28

Notty_PT wrote: Image
Didn't you think that LG accuracy is a just bad indicator? It highly depends on mode, enemy or enemies, your somnolence, mood, etc. But just enemy skill is enough to drop LG accuracy from 60% to 40%.

Notty_PT
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Re: What makes 240hz better than 144hz for competitive?

Post by Notty_PT » 17 Jul 2019, 09:07

Q83Ia7ta wrote:
Notty_PT wrote: Image
Didn't you think that LG accuracy is a just bad indicator? It highly depends on mode, enemy or enemies, your somnolence, mood, etc. But just enemy skill is enough to drop LG accuracy from 60% to 40%.
Not after more than 1000 kills. And QC has no dodging at all so you pretty much resort to put your crosshair as max as you can on the enemy hitbox. Having high framerate + 240hz + low input lag, helps a lot with tracking!

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