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XF252Q Up on Amazon!

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XF252Q Up on Amazon!

Postby masneb » 01 Aug 2019, 12:46

Looks like listings are finally up on Amazon. Very interested in personal opinions of this model. Review is here:

https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/ac ... xf252q.htm

https://www.amazon.com/Acer-XF252Q-Xbmi ... 07V7GJR9S/

This isn't the XF252QX.

There is also a G-Sync version of the monitor, but not sure why anyone would buy it when Nvidia can run Freesync and it's a extra $150 for the same thing.
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Re: XF252Q Up on Amazon!

Postby Leki » 01 Aug 2019, 19:20

I'm pretty sure the XF252Q and XF252QX are the same thing, the full model number is "XF252QXbmiiprzx" and some sellers include the X and some don't, some put both in the same page listing. They also have the same specs.
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Re: XF252Q Up on Amazon!

Postby masneb » 01 Aug 2019, 19:52

The X version has been for sale since earlier this year.

As described in other threads, the AUO panels had bugs or something, so no one released them last year after they announced the monitors (not just this manufacturer). Instead they changed out the panels with older 1ms last gen panels that worked and changed the model number slightly. It's like a intermediary step before they released it with the normal panel.

The majority of the confusion between the QX and Q seems to stem completely from the past two months. Originally TFT announced they were reviewing the QX, but the article is reviewing the Q. The QX was never widely available, but could be bought before the Q went on sale and earlier this year.

I wouldn't buy from any vendor that specifically lists the X model number. The listing on amazon is 3 days old. The g-sync variant is also 3 days old on Amazon.

Asus with their .5ms panel just reused a old model number, didn't even change the letters associated with it, so wouldn't surprise me if something similar is also happening here.


Edit: There used to be a lot more listings for the QX available in europe and acer russia had a listing for it on their website which is different from the Q that is now not to be found.
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Re: XF252Q Up on Amazon!

Postby masneb » 02 Aug 2019, 12:01

Reading around a bit more these might be identical models, so take it with a grain of salt. I definitely saw the QX available earlier this year though.
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Re: XF252Q Up on Amazon!

Postby open » 03 Aug 2019, 02:30

If anyone gets this monitor please list all strobing related options for us. The tft review makes it look like the settings let you have a little control over strobe length and that's it.

Looks like the average response improvement is not as good as I had hoped. It puts it on par with the best tn panels tft central has measured and only slightly better than the 1ms gtg 240hz that tft has measured. A nice monitor indeed but nowhere near the 2-3x improvement that the advertised 0.3ms gtg spec would imply. The best gtg that they measured was 0.9ms.

Still for anyone in the market for a 240hz it looks like it's a great value. Has low overall lag, offers 240hz strobing, can get bright if you want it to, and has pertty nice contrast as well. Just not quite enough response improvement for me to upgrade from my pg258q.
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Re: XF252Q Up on Amazon!

Postby masneb » 03 Aug 2019, 12:49

The big benefit is the improvement in consistency (variance of response times) and overshoot compared to those panels. If you end up with overshoot/undershoot, you end up with a garbled picture. Same thing with high levels of variance with the response times.

That's why I really wish TFT would test the new Omen so we could get a comparative baseline. The thing I'm most interested in is the consistency across the spectrum, not just the average time, already owning a PG258Q which has pretty good times, but is highly inconsistent I'm pretty sure this is what I'm looking for.
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Re: XF252Q Up on Amazon!

Postby open » 03 Aug 2019, 13:08

The variation is about 20% lower so its an even lower upgrade in that regard vs the 24% reduction in ave response time. And the overshoot looks about the same. Overshoot would be significantly worse if you went by the smaller sample range that they actually computed an average from. With the larger sample range it looks about the same on average but with a higher max overshoot.

It's still an upgrade I'm just wondering how much of one. I just wish tftcentral would measure all the new 240hz because if there is something better I might be interested.
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Re: XF252Q Up on Amazon!

Postby masneb » 04 Aug 2019, 10:13

Percent's are fine and dandy when you try to de-emphasize the meaning behind a numerical value, which is the opposite direction of what I'm suggesting, which is variance matters a lot. Calculating variance and understanding it are two very different things. I'm going to surmise here you googled variance after I mentioned it then looked up a formula or a calculator, not only off your reply, but also off you not even looking at the ranges of the monitors when you talked about response times in your original post. Also the overshoot is listed on the articles...

I don't think you're looking at anything more then the one graph and you're trying to extrapolate a grand conclusion from just that. Basically the least amount of time for the most noticeable reply.

"Overshoot would be significantly worse if you went by the smaller sample range that they actually computed an average from" doesn't make sense. Variance in response times, response times in general, and overshoot are two different things. They're describing two different things that aren't directly related to each other for testing purposes. You can have very accurate overdrive and low variance, with a higher average, by simply increasing minimum times. Case and point the monitor we're talking about here has less variance, so a smaller range, and less overshoot then a lot of other monitors. That's why I'm specifically interest in this monitor.

Overshoot/undershoot is the difference between you being able to discern a picture and it starting to turn into line art. Response time is the difference between you seeing a clear picture and it looking like a smear, such as with a IPS panel as pixels get stuck between refresh states and never reach their final state. The minimum and maximum is the difference between when one set of pixels will be in one state and another wont. The less variance the better.

My PG258Q for instance has quite a bit of variance.
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Re: XF252Q Up on Amazon!

Postby open » 04 Aug 2019, 15:20

Variance is the longest transition in relation to the shortest. You assume that anyone has to look this up? ok...

Somehow you dont understand that when I was talking about overshoot, I was talking about overshoot. Yes that's right. I was talking about variation in response times in one sentence and overshoot in another. Just like you did. It shouldn't be confusing unless you are an idiot.

Also thanks for explaining everything I already knew. If you don't like that response time min to max ratio is 20% lower and overshoot is the same or worse then that's your problem with tftcentrals measurements. Enjoy your new monitor.
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Re: XF252Q Up on Amazon!

Postby masneb » 05 Aug 2019, 14:16

That would be a range, variance is the amount of difference between numbers in a distribution. So it's not min-max, it's all the data points in the formula put together to see their dispersion in comparison to the average or a baseline.

Range != variance. The difference between mix and max != variance. Variance is about consistency in a distribution. How likely a number will be to fall around a average data point. This also relates highly to standard deviations.

For instance the TFTcentral review has more then two data points. That's why you can have a review for something like the Dell S2716DG, which has very similar mins and maxes, but average is a decent bit higher, because the min and max don't take into account all the data points in the distribution. Furthermore, min/max/average and putting aside variance which isn't calculated by TFT, they don't include overshoot, which the Agon has a lot of. That completely ruins any sort of stats that it pumps out for the min/max/average as it's error, which is why we don't all use the highest overdrive setting on our monitor. It leads to a garbled picture.

Variance wouldn't take that into account, so you'd need to weight it or just look at the column TFT has and basically discard anything that isn't green for the most part.
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