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Visual sensitivity due to Windows 10 and/or 32-bit color?

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Visual sensitivity due to Windows 10 and/or 32-bit color?

Postby NST17 » 25 Aug 2019, 12:52

I hope you will be able to help me figure out what I should do in order to
solve my problem, as I can't figure out whether I should replace my GPU, monitor, or do something else.

I am one of those people who have some visual sensitivity. I can't go to the movie, strobe lighting causes problems, and so do high contrast stripes on someone's shirt, and so on. Things get worse in low light conditions.

As far as desktop displays are concerned, when I used a CRT, I was only able to work with a refresh rates of 100Hz or higher. Anything below this refresh rate was clearly flickering and caused nausea, headaches, vertigo and other symptoms. The 100Hz was unnecessary on the LCD displays. However, although I could not (consciously) observe such flicker with LCD screens, these monitors did nonetheless lead to the same problems and symptoms.
At the time, someone figured out that it was because of dithering or something like that, and with suitable hardware I was again able to look at the monitor without problems (also setting software to reduce movements as much as possible; and adapting contrast, brightness, colors, size etc).

So, until recently, I was using the following and had no problems:

System Windows 7 home premium SP1 64-bit
Motherboard ASUS P8H77-M / CSM
Processor Intel i5-3470 CPU@ 3.20GHz 6MB 1155 QUAD
RAM 8GB (2x4 DDR3)
GPU Asus Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 1GB
Display (IPS) NEC MultiSync LCD2490WUXI2, DVI-D, 1920x1200 (connected with a
DVI-D-dual-link cable).
I used a 16-bit color mode.


However, recently I installed Windows 10 Home-64-bit, and since that moment
I can hardly use my computer, due to the visual sensitivity symptoms. I do
not know why. I do not know whether it is concerns flickering, FRC, dithering, PWM or other things. I only know that there is a problem. I cannot observe flicker, but the monitor causes those same problems as I have with other displays.

I really hope you can help me with this. I do not know what the problem is, what caused it, and how to solve it: should I change any settings? Change my GPU? Something else?

The only hardware change I did was adding a SSD Hard disk (on which Windows 10 is installed), and I suppose this has nothing to do with the problem I have.

Thus, I assume the problem results from the changing from
Windows 7 64-bit, 16-bit-color
to
Windows 10 64-bit, 32-bit-color

I tried to install updated drivers for the display and for the GPU. I also
tried to change in the color management settings. However, it did not help.

I do not know whether the following information is relevant, so I add it:
When I look at the Settings; advanced display settings; display information:
I see Refresh rate 59Hz although it is set to 60Hz.
Also, the following information is presented regarding the colors: Bit depth: 8-bit; Color
format: RGB; Color space: Standard dynamic range (SDR).

As far as I know, my display is a true 8-bit IPS, so as far as I understand, it should be able to deal with a 32-bit color definition without any problems (i.e., without those various
FRC, dithering, PWM etc. "adjustments").

Does this mean that whatever is happening which causes my problems results from the GPU or can this result from other things?
Is it possible that the GPU (it is a GTX650 1GB, not 2BG) was able to deal with the 1920x1200 resolution on the 16-bit color definition on windows 7, but is not able to deal with this resolution on 32-bit color and consequently, does some dithering/ FRC/ PWM or something else that causes my problems?

Could this be the case? and if so, how can I solve the problem? Do I need a different GPU or other parts? and is my hardware compatible with these changes?

If this is not the case, what is causing the problem and how can I resolve it?

(p.s. Obviously I am not a gamer, but in all previous computers, the onboard Graphics or simple Graphic cards did present the 1920x1200 resolution, but did not solve my visual sensitivities symptoms, whereas the gaming GPU's did. I do not know why, but that happened several times).

I really hope you will be able to give me some advice on this.
Thank you!
NST17
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 25 Aug 2019, 12:35

Re: Visual sensitivity due to Windows 10 and/or 32-bit color

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 28 Aug 2019, 01:00

Being Blur Busters, we are a magnet for complaints about display motion blur (And vision sensitivity related to display motion blur), but I have some familiarity with some unrelated anecdotes. But you may need to consult some vision specialists to narrow down your vision sensitivities, we are not doctors here... And more specialize in gaming angles.

However...

Since your change is mainly software, I would rule out most of your speculation (probably not FRC, not dithering, not PWM, etc).

Some theoretical tests:

(1) Test your blue light sensitivity. Click Start -> Enter "Night Light" -> Adjust to warmer colors

(2) Test a lower refresh rate such as 24Hz or 30Hz in order to force Windows to a lower frame rate.
Use NVIDIA Control Panel to do this refresh rate. You might have a sensitivity to high-performing frame rates. Most prefer high frame rates but there are some motion sensitivites that low frame rates can help.

(3) Test your sensitivity to brightness. Your monitor might have reset to factory brightness. Try dimming your monitor to see if it improves things.

(4) Test your contrast sensitivity at both extremes
(A) Increase method: Use Windows High Contrast Mode.
(B) Decrease method: Use NVIDIA Control Panel -> Contrast -> increase the brightness of your blacks and dim the brightness of your whites.
Some people are sensitive to extreme (A) or extreme (B)
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Re: Visual sensitivity due to Windows 10 and/or 32-bit color

Postby NST17 » 28 Aug 2019, 02:31

Thanks for your reply! I have tried these suggestions, excluding the lower refresh rate (I am afraid it will cause flickering). Unfortunately, none solved the problem.
I am afraid I cannot narrow down my visual sensitivity problem becuase apparently it includes several aspects (flicker, motion, etc...).
Is it possible that the software change (32-bit color instead of 16, and the windows 10 instead of 7) requires the hardware to do something which it is not able to do propperly and that this is "solved" by one of these methods such as PWM/FRC/dithering etc? or is this complete nonsense?
Thanks!!
NST17
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 25 Aug 2019, 12:35

Re: Visual sensitivity due to Windows 10 and/or 32-bit color

Postby Jason38 » 29 Aug 2019, 00:23

NST17 wrote:Thanks for your reply! I have tried these suggestions, excluding the lower refresh rate (I am afraid it will cause flickering). Unfortunately, none solved the problem.
I am afraid I cannot narrow down my visual sensitivity problem becuase apparently it includes several aspects (flicker, motion, etc...).
Is it possible that the software change (32-bit color instead of 16, and the windows 10 instead of 7) requires the hardware to do something which it is not able to do propperly and that this is "solved" by one of these methods such as PWM/FRC/dithering etc? or is this complete nonsense?
Thanks!!



I have similar issues to you and I used to believe It was dithering/software till I found blur busters.

Can you use a plasma TV? I recommend trying a 2013 model if you can find one least chance of burn in then. If you can the motion blur is almost non existent on it. You said you were using a CRT and If I have studied correctly on this site CRT's are the best for little to no motion blur and plasma's are second as long as we are not talking about LED's with BFI. Motion blur is not great on most LED monitors for people as extreme as us.

Plasma is also a great test for blue light because it's not nearly as crazy as an LED.

DLP - The movie theater screen can you look at it? I'm not talking about all the LED lights in the theater because those give me pain I'm talking just about the screen? If you can use this and a plasma you can rule out dither.

For me personally the biggest issue I found out was motion blur/Extreme bright screens/Bright White/PWM. Certain patterns sometimes white writing on black back grounds.

I bought the LG Ultragear 24GL600F-B and this monitor is perfect for me. When i set the over drive to max it kills the motion blur I get no strain. I have to turn the brightness way down to zero. After that I can game on it for hours. I know a couple of guys who tried it on LEDEYESTRAIN.org but couldn't tolerate some things with it. A common complaint was it's too bright. I think people with our level of sensitivity sabotage ourselves sometimes by always wearing sun glasses or living in dim Incandescent lighting. It makes your eyes weak. The only thing I have noticed giving a problem on this monitor sometimes is the PS4 and this is game dependent because the PS4 supports HDR and it is very bright compared to other things hooked up to this monitor. I just have to mess with settings a bit more if I use the PS4 then I'm fine.

Did you attack your room lighting? I have 6 halogens and 2 incandescents all clear 100 CRI lights in my game room. I also have a window for natural light. I believe you really have to think outside the box and buy a bunch of screen tech and start tackling all the problems.


I have windows 10 hooked up to my computer and the biggest thing I do is just hit the night light on a bit to take the harshness out of the bright white on web pages then I have no issues. If I'm gaming on the computer I turn it off as I have no issues there.
Good luck!
Jason38
 
Posts: 60
Joined: 24 May 2019, 10:23

Re: Visual sensitivity due to Windows 10 and/or 32-bit color

Postby Jason38 » 29 Aug 2019, 00:28

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Being Blur Busters, we are a magnet for complaints about display motion blur (And vision sensitivity related to display motion blur), but I have some familiarity with some unrelated anecdotes. But you may need to consult some vision specialists to narrow down your vision sensitivities, we are not doctors here... And more specialize in gaming angles.

However...

Since your change is mainly software, I would rule out most of your speculation (probably not FRC, not dithering, not PWM, etc).

Some theoretical tests:

(1) Test your blue light sensitivity. Click Start -> Enter "Night Light" -> Adjust to warmer colors

(2) Test a lower refresh rate such as 24Hz or 30Hz in order to force Windows to a lower frame rate.
Use NVIDIA Control Panel to do this refresh rate. You might have a sensitivity to high-performing frame rates. Most prefer high frame rates but there are some motion sensitivites that low frame rates can help.

(3) Test your sensitivity to brightness. Your monitor might have reset to factory brightness. Try dimming your monitor to see if it improves things.

(4) Test your contrast sensitivity at both extremes
(A) Increase method: Use Windows High Contrast Mode.
(B) Decrease method: Use NVIDIA Control Panel -> Contrast -> increase the brightness of your blacks and dim the brightness of your whites.
Some people are sensitive to extreme (A) or extreme (B)


This method of playing with the contrast in the control panel I had no idea. This is a great idea I notice i have issues with bright whites. I was using the night light just slightly to alter the harsh white. The lowering of the refresh rate is interesting I have always wondered about that as I have a yotaphone 2 and it has a E Ink side and I sit outside because you get no glare from E-Ink and watch YouTube videos on it and the refresh rate has to be super slow on that side as it's choppy but it gives me no strain.

Thanks.
Jason38
 
Posts: 60
Joined: 24 May 2019, 10:23

Re: Visual sensitivity due to Windows 10 and/or 32-bit color

Postby NST17 » 29 Aug 2019, 01:42

Thanks. I am glad that an answer I received helped you.
I think I should clarify certain things: I don't do any gaming, nor do I watch videos. I can't look at the movie theater screen. However, this is not what is disturbing me at the moment.
I have strong lighting as well as daylight in the room and prefer high brightness.
My problem is looking at the computer display for simple Office / Internet surfing.
My IPS display was perfect for me until I changed the OS. Therefore, I hope I can find a solution so that I will be able to continue using this display.
I hope the contrast settings will make things easier for you.
Thanks
NST17
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 25 Aug 2019, 12:35

Re: Visual sensitivity due to Windows 10 and/or 32-bit color

Postby rasmas » 30 Aug 2019, 05:46

Chief Blur Buster wrote:...
(4) Test your contrast sensitivity at both extremes
(A) Increase method: Use Windows High Contrast Mode.
(B) Decrease method: Use NVIDIA Control Panel -> Contrast -> increase the brightness of your blacks and dim the brightness of your whites.
Some people are sensitive to extreme (A) or extreme (B)

Do AMD have that way of "increase brightness of blacks and dim brightness of whites"? (can't find it but maybe i have an old card -6870).

I always disable bloom on games, and on my last TFT, whites were too strong and by lowering brightness i could not achieve much (probably i would have returned it anyway but i would have definatelly tried :) ).

Thanks anyway (and sorry for using your thread OP ;) ).
rasmas
 
Posts: 50
Joined: 03 Jan 2018, 15:25


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