Eye strain problem

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Re: Eye strain problem

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 11 Mar 2020, 21:11

xenphor wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 20:26
Is it a case of cutting corners to get an IPS panel?
Pretty much no longer the case, when you use 240Hz "1ms" IPS. They're quite competitive with TN.

The fastest TN will be faster (say, the BenQ XL2546S DyAC+ and like), but my personal experience is that models such as ViewSonic XG270 and ASUS VG279QM already outperform in all metrics (latency, ghosting, pixel response speed, even strobe crosstalk when using strobing) versus older 240Hz 1ms TN. You can have less lag, less ghosting, and faster pixel response with the fastest IPS, becoming competitive to a few-year-old TN panel.

The venn diagram recently started really overlapping. The usual parrots doesn't always necessarly apply.
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Re: Eye strain problem

Post by xenphor » 11 Mar 2020, 21:50

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 21:11
xenphor wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 20:26
Is it a case of cutting corners to get an IPS panel?
Pretty much no longer the case, when you use 240Hz "1ms" IPS. They're quite competitive with TN.

The fastest TN will be faster (say, the BenQ XL2546S DyAC+ and like), but my personal experience is that models such as ViewSonic XG270 and ASUS VG279QM already outperform in all metrics (latency, ghosting, pixel response speed, even strobe crosstalk when using strobing) versus older 240Hz 1ms TN. You can have less lag, less ghosting, and faster pixel response with the fastest IPS, becoming competitive to a few-year-old TN panel.

The venn diagram recently started really overlapping. The usual parrots doesn't always necessarly apply.
Sorry I guess I should've been more specific. I was talking about the AOC 24G2 IPS panel specifically, because I believe it is one of the cheapest IPS 144hz VRR monitors at under 200 dollars. When I say cutting corners I'm talking not just pure performance metrics like latency, pixel response, ghosting, etc. but other things like the cloudy/vignetting effect on the AOC 24G2. It made the horizontal viewing angels really poor even though it was an IPS panel.

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Re: Eye strain problem

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 11 Mar 2020, 22:01

xenphor wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 21:50
Sorry I guess I should've been more specific. I was talking about the AOC 24G2 IPS panel specifically, because I believe it is one of the cheapest IPS 144hz VRR monitors at under 200 dollars. When I say cutting corners I'm talking not just pure performance metrics like latency, pixel response, ghosting, etc. but other things like the cloudy/vignetting effect on the AOC 24G2. It made the horizontal viewing angels really poor even though it was an IPS panel.
Oh yes.

Well, for 144Hz, I recommend you try the ViewSonic XG2402 .... The TN panel is pretty good colors-wise, it's fast, it's similar price, it's got generally rave reviews all around for performance, and it has relatively few eyestrain complaints.

That said, have you tried to diagnose your specific kind of eyestrain with monitors? What monitors creates eyestrain, and what doesn't? It's a very easy to self-misdiagnose, from factors such as PWM diming, to blue light, to overall brightness, to viewing angles, to gamma settings, to strobing modes (more sensitive to flicker than blur), to motion blur eyestrain (more sensitive to blur than flicker), etc. We've done this in other threads and helped narrow down monitor recommendations.

Have you found any patterns with your eye strain on different screens?
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Re: Eye strain problem

Post by xenphor » 11 Mar 2020, 22:32

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 22:01
xenphor wrote:
11 Mar 2020, 21:50
Sorry I guess I should've been more specific. I was talking about the AOC 24G2 IPS panel specifically, because I believe it is one of the cheapest IPS 144hz VRR monitors at under 200 dollars. When I say cutting corners I'm talking not just pure performance metrics like latency, pixel response, ghosting, etc. but other things like the cloudy/vignetting effect on the AOC 24G2. It made the horizontal viewing angels really poor even though it was an IPS panel.
Oh yes.

Well, for 144Hz, I recommend you try the ViewSonic XG2402 .... The TN panel is pretty good colors-wise, it's fast, it's similar price, it's got generally rave reviews all around for performance, and it has relatively few eyestrain complaints.

That said, have you tried to diagnose your specific kind of eyestrain with monitors? What monitors creates eyestrain, and what doesn't? It's a very easy to self-misdiagnose, from factors such as PWM diming, to blue light, to overall brightness, to viewing angles, to gamma settings, to strobing modes (more sensitive to flicker than blur), to motion blur eyestrain (more sensitive to blur than flicker), etc. We've done this in other threads and helped narrow down monitor recommendations.

Have you found any patterns with your eye strain on different screens?
This is the first time I've ever had a bad reaction looking at a monitor. I tried to adjust all the settings and nothing made a difference. I could have the brightness near zero, contrast greatly reduced, digital vibrancy reduced, low blue mode enabled, Windows 10 night light enabled, but nothing helped. I even tried adjusting the lighting in my room, going so far as to buy smart LED bulbs that I could adjust. It has some weird sort of sheen that causes colors to shift when viewing at different angles. Looking straight on, the corners are darker than the center, and if I look at the corners dead on, other parts of the monitor look darker.

There is a post on reddit with a picture that sort of shows it: https://i.imgur.com/ViDwQE8.jpg. Now the picture itself isn't that great, but I think it illustrates the darkening effect at the edges well enough. Whatever is causing that to happens is what I think is giving me not just eye strain, but a kind of nausea.

So yeah I'm definitely going to return it. I'll look into that ViewSonic XG2402 unless you can think of any others around that price range. I'm fine with the TN panel on my cheap chromebook, but of course that is only 11", so I don't know how TN holds up at 24". I care most about Freesync performance with an Nvidia card and if there are any issues with overdrive, ghosting, or just anything that could impact VRR/High Refresh Rate usage.

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Re: Eye strain problem

Post by Hadookaan » 12 Mar 2020, 09:11

I think I know why you had eye strain as I encountered the same issue, I had the S2719DGF and later tried the 24in variant both gave me eye strain that after 1hr or so I could not look at the screen, and I realized for this particular monitors it was the the anti glare coating/filter on the screen that would shimmer, and give me bad eye strain nothing I would do could fix it, brightness etc, and they were sent back, so I thought it was just a tn panel issue but later found out the is was the coating as I now have 1080p 2x TN 240hz screens, the LG27GK750-B & Alienware AW2518HF, with no eye strain 0%, also have the 1440p Acer XB271HU 144hz, also no eye strain, all these screens dont have a grainy coating far as I can tell, and definitely do not shimmer so no issues,

For the last five days I been testing out the LG 27GL850-B also no eye strain, and no grainy coating or shimmer, but it uses nano IPS so the colors are very vibrant, more so then the acer, I was comparing it to, maybe in your case as mentioned earlier you ll probably have to turn down the color a bit, to maybe stop your eye strain, I did my testing and sent the screen back, as the overdrive is was to aggressive, to mention the one of the many issue I had with it, and 4 years after the Acer XB27 I dont think big enough leaps have been made for me to justify keeping this screen, oh and 1 ms quoted is marketing flaff, so its gone back, maybe i ll test/compare the Viewsonic or Asus with Elmb-Sync next!!

Hope this helps with people with eye strain issues, I am sure there are a lot of other factor's, this is just my personal experience!

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Re: Eye strain problem

Post by xenphor » 12 Mar 2020, 09:26

Hadookaan wrote:
12 Mar 2020, 09:11
I think I know why you had eye strain as I encountered the same issue, I had the S2719DGF and later tried the 24in variant both gave me eye strain that after 1hr or so I could not look at the screen, and I realized for this particular monitors it was the the anti glare coating/filter on the screen that would shimmer, and give me bad eye strain nothing I would do could fix it, brightness etc, and they were sent back, so I thought it was just a tn panel issue but later found out the is was the coating as I now have 1080p 2x TN 240hz screens, the LG27GK750-B & Alienware AW2518HF, with no eye strain 0%, also have the 1440p Acer XB271HU 144hz, also no eye strain, all these screens dont have a grainy coating far as I can tell, and definitely do not shimmer so no issues,

For the last five days I been testing out the LG 27GL850-B also no eye strain, and no grainy coating or shimmer, but it uses nano IPS so the colors are very vibrant, more so then the acer, I was comparing it to, maybe in your case as mentioned earlier you ll probably have to turn down the color a bit, to maybe stop your eye strain, I did my testing and sent the screen back, as the overdrive is was to aggressive, to mention the one of the many issue I had with it, and 4 years after the Acer XB27 I dont think big enough leaps have been made for me to justify keeping this screen, oh and 1 ms quoted is marketing flaff, so its gone back, maybe i ll test/compare the Viewsonic or Asus with Elmb-Sync next!!

Hope this helps with people with eye strain issues, I am sure there are a lot of other factor's, this is just my personal experience!
It does have a sheen/shimmer to it that I've not noticed on any other monitor I've used. Is there a way to find out if the ViewSonic XG2402 has it?

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Re: Eye strain problem

Post by Hadookaan » 12 Mar 2020, 09:48

What has a shimmer to it, the LG 27GL850-B? if so I didn't notice it, maybe its a lighter variant, of the S2719DGF as that really bothered me, on the Dell I was squinting my eyes, your probably more sensitive to it than me, we are all different and have varying tolerances, lucky mine is not that bad

And not sure where you can find out the info about ViewSonic XG2402 but maybe with someone who has the monitor, on the forums maybe, some people are not as sensitive to this, so better off getting it from somewhere you can return it easily to test for yourself that is probably the only proper way, to see if it would be good for your eyes!

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Re: Eye strain problem

Post by xenphor » 12 Mar 2020, 14:16

Sorry, I was talking about the AOC 24G2

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Re: Eye strain problem

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 12 Mar 2020, 15:36

xenphor wrote:
12 Mar 2020, 09:26
It does have a sheen/shimmer to it that I've not noticed on any other monitor I've used. Is there a way to find out if the ViewSonic XG2402 has it?
I am immune to eyestrain from this type of monitor-antiglare shimmer, but I have seen people get eyestrain from this. If this is definitely your cause, I might have to rescind my recommendation of the XG2402 because most 144Hz TN panels tend to have this antiglare filter that shimmers. Though the XG2402 does seem to be better than the others.

Although, you could remove the antiglare filter, but that is high risk of damage:

phpBB [video]


This fixes the shimmer-related eyestrain for some people, but this is high-risk (recommended only if you're a DIY guy with enough money for 2 monitors in case you damage one during DIY modification)

At this stage, I think the easier solution for shimmer-related eyestrain is to switch to a panel that does not have the shimmer. Many 1440p IPS panels don't have this shimmer, so you may have to spend more money to say goodbye to that kind of shimmer.
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Re: Eye strain problem

Post by xenphor » 12 Mar 2020, 16:17

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
12 Mar 2020, 15:36
At this stage, I think the easier solution for shimmer-related eyestrain is to switch to a panel that does not have the shimmer. Many 1440p IPS panels don't have this shimmer, so you may have to spend more money to say goodbye to that kind of shimmer.
Damn that really sucks because it's hard to go back to 60hz. I was finally able to use Dosbox properly vsync'd which I've never been able to do until now. Even though my cheap Asus supports custom 70hz resolutions without any stuttering (according to vsynctester), I still get intermittent stuttering in Dosbox when I force vsync in the control panel (and of course the input lag is high).

I already returned the AOC so I guess I might try my luck with the Viewsonic and hope somehow that the effect is at least reduced a bit. If not then I guess I'll just have to wait for the technology to advance a bit more because spending more than 200 on a monitor sight unseen is not a great feeling, even if I am able to return it.

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