Weird lag when monitor on native refresh, much less on 143hz

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BramWazig
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Joined: 21 Feb 2020, 14:40

Weird lag when monitor on native refresh, much less on 143hz

Post by BramWazig » 21 Feb 2020, 15:15

Hello,

Long time lurker of this forum, now first time poster.. first off thanks for all the amazing info i can find here!

I did scan the forum before posting but was not able to find a topic with this specific issue, but if im double posting please direct me :)


Ok so, i own a lg 24gm77 monitor, and ever since i bought it ( already a while ago ) i felt like it causes a lot of input lag, especially so when using lower/stretched
resolutions, which i used in the past either to get a game fps to my refreshrate or because of how stretched resolution was comfortable to play with..

However, recently i started a quest for getting as little input lag as possible, and i kept getting such weird and inconsistent results..

after a lot of google searches, contacting LG multiple times only to keep getting ignored, reading the manual multiple times and ofc reading stuff here on the forum i found a thread somewhere on reddit where a guy who has the same monitor said that after he made a custom resolution of 1920x1080 at 143 hz instead of 144, he experienced a huge difference, so i tried this and he is right, the difference is pretty noticeable, like suddenly my mouse lost weight and is much more responsive...

I was wondering if someone here could shed some light on this issue, and perhaps how to improve it further.. also i wonder if there is a way to set this as my pc's native setting because i noticed some games force it back to 144hz again, thus bringing back that sluggish feeling and i had to change it in the config.

also in terms of scaling, what does this mean? can i scale down to lower resolutions on 143hz and always keep this nice feeling or could it be that on other then native resolutions this would have a very different effect?

currently i have it set as such: Image with "no scaling" and scaling method as GPU
is this optimal or should i change other things such as amount of pixels, front porch etc to get even better results? ( either on native or when i'd choose to use lower/stretched resolutions and full screen setting instead of no scaling)

one of my friends laughed at me when i said going down 1hz reduced my lag so much it made me a better player by significant margins but i am so convinced that there is no placebo effect here, eventho i technically understand how and why this makes such a difference.

is it perhaps just a shortcoming of this specific monitor?

ok and then my last question, apart from input lag from monitor/gpu i have also changed my network settings a lot, which has reduced my fps somewhat ( disabled some offloading settings, wont get into it now) and as a result of lower lag, more responsive internet and lower fps my tearing, even with fps 20 or more frames above the refreshrate, seems to have gotten worse significantly, might this also be related to my custom resolution or is this simply the downside of having lower fps combined with less input lag?

( i mean i still take the extra tearing over the lag anyday but if i can reduce it somehow someway i would :) )

i play with settings as competitive as possible with my rig

my rig:

1070 FTW gpu without any OC enabled, i did raise the powerlimit and made custom fan profile.
My cpu is overclocked @4.3 ghz tho

Image

any help / input (without lag haha ) would be greatly appreciated!

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nuggify
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Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 16:57

Re: Weird lag when monitor on native refresh, much less on 143hz

Post by nuggify » 22 Feb 2020, 00:19

So you get input lag (mouse keyboard?) when the monitor is at native refresh rate, but screen tearing when its not? Even when you are getting +20 FPS over your monitors framerate? I take it you have Gsync/Vysnc etc off and pretty much all the obvious stuff. Sounds like a shortcoming of the specific monitor (especially if someone else posted about the same issue) unless there is more to the story here with all the weird stuff you see.

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AddictFPS
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Joined: 15 Jan 2020, 14:13

Re: Weird lag when monitor on native refresh, much less on 143hz

Post by AddictFPS » 22 Feb 2020, 06:56

Is a know issue in GSync + VSync On settings, when framerate is under the max. refresh rate, work with low latency, fast scanout speed, GSync-On VSync-Off, but when FPS touch the max. refreshrate, swap to GSync-Off VSync-On and latency increases :(

Nvidia sould work with game engine developers, to make "GSync approved engines", automatic engine level precise framerate cap if user set GSync-ON + VSync-On in driver settings or game settings if driver is in App mode, running in this case at 144FPS/Hz in the same way 143FPS/Hz.

BramWazig
Posts: 4
Joined: 21 Feb 2020, 14:40

Re: Weird lag when monitor on native refresh, much less on 143hz

Post by BramWazig » 22 Feb 2020, 08:44

yeah no kind of sync enabled, it does not support gsync, (AFAIK) it does have some sort of motion blur reduction which only works at 120 hz or lower, and something called DAS, that last one i have always on since it reduces lag significantly... the motion blur reduction and DAS are mutually exclusive as in that u cannot enable both.. and vsync i never used a day in my life :)

about the tearing, i meant to say that now that i set it to 143hz the tearing seems worse while the lag is significantly lower then before, but perhaps this is just a visual side effect of having lower lag

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nuggify
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Re: Weird lag when monitor on native refresh, much less on 143hz

Post by nuggify » 22 Feb 2020, 18:01

BramWazig wrote:
22 Feb 2020, 08:44
yeah no kind of sync enabled, it does not support gsync, (AFAIK) it does have some sort of motion blur reduction which only works at 120 hz or lower, and something called DAS, that last one i have always on since it reduces lag significantly... the motion blur reduction and DAS are mutually exclusive as in that u cannot enable both.. and vsync i never used a day in my life :)

about the tearing, i meant to say that now that i set it to 143hz the tearing seems worse while the lag is significantly lower then before, but perhaps this is just a visual side effect of having lower lag
Yeah I figured your problem was not any of the sync technologies. Well I really doubt its normal to have screen tearing as a result of less input lag. What sorts of input lag, and do you attribute it to the monitor or your PC? It could however be a visual side affect of running 143hz. The reason I posted here is some of the things you talk about ring true for stuff I have seen related to power problems. Of course I would be hesitant to say these issues are the same, if more folks out there say it is a known issue with the monitor.

BramWazig
Posts: 4
Joined: 21 Feb 2020, 14:40

Re: Weird lag when monitor on native refresh, much less on 143hz

Post by BramWazig » 22 Feb 2020, 22:01

I have checked all the obvious other possible reasons, monitored my pc for a few days gaming with HWmonitor on.. could not discover anything out of order and everything seems within margins.. also I never had any power issues and my psu has been powering this setup for years, i bought it already quite a while ago..

I did however disable a lot of network card stuff in order to minimize latency, which cost me a fair chunk of frames in game, perhaps the combination of lower fps and by extension a maxed out cpu ( its kind of an oldie, 4th gen i5 ) while not offloading to network card causes some issue where the received data from the game is not being processed correctly, hence causing tearing because rendering information for the frames is not being delivered efficiently/on time to the gpu? I honestly do not know if such a thing is a possibility...

to test this i enabled large send offloads again today and the 30+ fps gain in apex does seem to work in the benefit of reducing tearing, so i guess i'll leave it like that until hopefully soon ill be able to upgrade to a 9th gen cpu...

this still does not explain to me how lowering the monitor 1hz reduces the input lag soo much though, my first thought was that perhaps the 1980x1080 @144hz is just pushing this monitor to its max and because of bad design it can not actually handle that, but by that reasoning using 1920x1080 @ 120hz should give the same reduction in lag, however, it does not..

the monitor has also a response time setting, high, normal, low and off, which i find confusing and the manual does not mention the response times associated with these settings, so its not really clear, but as far as i understand it, it seems that setting response time to high gives the lowest response time, which is a bit counter intuitive but tbh i find it hard to really tell any difference at all.. its probably less then a ms difference anyway.

its also interesting to note that whether using gpu or display scaling ( in NVCP) the monitor itself does not say its 143hz, it still says its 144hz.

tomorrow i will try 119hz in custom to see if that wields the same result in lower lag as 143hz..

oh this was the post i refered to btw: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comme ... aty_mouse/

Q83Ia7ta
Posts: 738
Joined: 18 Dec 2013, 09:29

Re: Weird lag when monitor on native refresh, much less on 143hz

Post by Q83Ia7ta » 23 Feb 2020, 01:19

Hm. I guess this news been already mentioned but I think it explains problem
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Windows-1 ... 143.0.html

Q83Ia7ta
Posts: 738
Joined: 18 Dec 2013, 09:29

Re: Weird lag when monitor on native refresh, much less on 143hz

Post by Q83Ia7ta » 23 Feb 2020, 04:04

btw big clarification:
> The issue does not affect games running in fullscreen mode as the image then bypasses DWM and is rendered directly by the GPU.

BramWazig
Posts: 4
Joined: 21 Feb 2020, 14:40

Re: Weird lag when monitor on native refresh, much less on 143hz

Post by BramWazig » 23 Feb 2020, 08:16

Q83Ia7ta wrote:
23 Feb 2020, 01:19
Hm. I guess this news been already mentioned but I think it explains problem
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Windows-1 ... 143.0.html
Hmm i've read the article twice but i don't understand how you conclude that this explains the problem, could you explain?
Even if you don't have two monitors, the issue can still be replicated when you run a game in borderless windowed mode and have another window by the side
I do not run dual monitor setup nor do i ever run any game borderless, so i don't get how this issue would affect me?

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