05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

[forii]

#1MSI optix MAG251rx(#1 G2G, #1 colors(the only 10 bit IPS 240hz monitor, has backlight strobing at 240hz and below) it's also the best playstation 4/playstation 5/xbox one x/xbox series x) 240hz ips panel since it has VRR HDMI up to 240hz. Most importantly, you can keep your overdrive to "faster" and have little to no over shoot at MAJORITY OF ITS ADAPTIVE SYNC RANGE. 60hz-144hz(weird how hardware unboxed claimed overshoot at 144hz on "faster" when i myself didn't notice much if at at). Just put it to "faster" and you're set. OR put it to "fast" if uu dn't want to see any overshoot. (however, do NOT put it to "fast" if the framerate is 200+hz because the response time compliance would be too slow when its refreshing at 240hz at 4.17 ms)

In next week I will be able to buy the MSI, I still have the VG279QM but I need to be sure that i Understand everything correct.
Fix me if not.

So MSI is faster g2g IPS panel, with 3,1ms but only at 'Faster' Overdrive, and when fps are 200+
I remember you said once that MSI is better than Asus when the fps are bellow 200, avg 180, or something like that, which I do experience in Warzone really often, around even 150~.

If I understand correctly on FPS around 150 we need to use overdrive at "Fast"?
But then the response time is 4,17?? So how is it faster than asus with g2g 3,6ms at overdrive 80, and even if we put it to 60, its 4,0ms - still slower. ALso I found review on MSI and the response time on Faster is right 3,2, but on Fast its not even around 4ms, its 5,2!! much higher than Asus with OD at 60, how is the Msi faster in that case? I don't get it


Unless for gaming no matter how fps we have, from 100-240 - we should always use Faster overdrive? but the lowest are fps the more overshoot we have? That's how i see it.

And the last question, is the overshoot on the MSI, the "little one" similar to overshoot at 80 on the asus? smaller or bigger?

If you could reply me this question, or someone else who have this MSI that would be really helpfull.

Thanks!

[Chief Blur Buster]

- Is ELMB-Sync any good?

ELMB-SYNC can be good or bad depending on how it is used.

For games that permanently run at near Hz, capped ELMB-SYNC can be an advantageous alternative to fixed-Hz ELMB, as an equivalent of a low-lag VSYNC ON ELMB mode, since capped VRR is lower-lag than VSYNC ON. This avoids the ELMB-SYNC problems at lower frame rates, but that also means you have to have frame rates near or above Hz.

TL;DR: Treat capped ELMB-SYNC as a "low-lag VSYNC ON ELMB", and keep fps near max Hz, to maintain great fps=Hz silky smooth effect without the latency of VSYNC ON.

[axaro1]

- Is ELMB-Sync any good?

ELMB-SYNC can be good or bad depending on how it is used.

For games that permanently run at near Hz, capped ELMB-SYNC can be an advantageous alternative to fixed-Hz ELMB, as an equivalent of a low-lag VSYNC ON ELMB mode, since capped VRR is lower-lag than VSYNC ON. This avoids the ELMB-SYNC problems at lower frame rates, but that also means you have to have frame rates near or above Hz.

TL;DR: Treat capped ELMB-SYNC as a "low-lag VSYNC ON ELMB", and keep fps near max Hz, to maintain great fps=Hz silky smooth effect without the latency of VSYNC ON.

Thank you for your explanation, so let's say that I can consistently output more than 280fps in a game like Overwatch and that I'm using a VG279QM/VG259QM, capping at 277 would be the best choice and it would reduce input lag compared to uncapped 280hz, am I correct?
I have another question chief: Is strobe crosstalk even noticeable when you are strobing at 280hz?
What's your personal opinion on 240hz IPS monitors? If you had 400 dollars in 2020 (so not enough for a XL2546) and you wanted to buy a 240hz monitor would you go for an IPS or a TN?

[forii]

Chief, What's your personal opinion on 240hz IPS monitors? If you had 400 dollars in 2020 (so not enough for a XL2546) and you wanted to buy a 240hz monitor would you go for an IPS or a TN?

Here is what I found from February

I admit am currently a huge fan of 240Hz-280Hz 1ms IPS, whether it's Blur Busters Approved or not.

IPS is a smidge slow compared to the fastest TN but the best 240Hz 1ms IPS has less ghosting/blur than an average 240Hz 1ms TN now. Sure, a few cherrypicked fast TN models is a gold standard better than 240Hz 1ms IPS.

But I'm impressed that 240Hz 1ms IPS leaped straight into the middle of the TN field (less ghosting than half of 240Hz TNs).

If you're cherrypicking the world's fastest, it's still TN, but buying a random 240Hz TN without looking at benchmarks, then half of the time that particular 240Hz TN slower or more ghosty than the 1ms 240Hz IPS panels that hit the market -- they actually definitely look visually faster than the worst 240Hz TNs (i.e. less ghosting)

The 240Hz 1ms IPS package deal is rather nice -- feels fast and feels just like an average 240Hz TN, but good colors, low strobe crosstalk (if using strobe), low lag that is better than some TN, no viewing angle issues, etc. You're making tradeoffs, but the gains can far exceed the losses. Figuratively speaking, instead of 50% cake-and-eat effect, you're getting 75% of cake-and-eat-it-too, fewer compromises.

Your needs may be different, you may need that extra oomph of TN (and the need is definitely genuine) but many people don't realize how much IPS leaped closer to TN. Just because some GtG combos are slow, the same thing happens on 1ms TN panels too. The leap from 3ms IPS to 1ms IPS is extremely huge and the amount of ghosting is actually that much less (two-thirds fainter ghosting artifacts than the old 3ms 165Hz IPS panels of yesteryear, and roughly one-tenth ghosting visibility of 10-year-old 10ms-rated IPS).

[axaro1]

Chief, What's your personal opinion on 240hz IPS monitors? If you had 400 dollars in 2020 (so not enough for a XL2546) and you wanted to buy a 240hz monitor would you go for an IPS or a TN?

Here is what I found from February

I admit am currently a huge fan of 240Hz-280Hz 1ms IPS, whether it's Blur Busters Approved or not.

IPS is a smidge slow compared to the fastest TN but the best 240Hz 1ms IPS has less ghosting/blur than an average 240Hz 1ms TN now. Sure, a few cherrypicked fast TN models is a gold standard better than 240Hz 1ms IPS.

But I'm impressed that 240Hz 1ms IPS leaped straight into the middle of the TN field (less ghosting than half of 240Hz TNs).

If you're cherrypicking the world's fastest, it's still TN, but buying a random 240Hz TN without looking at benchmarks, then half of the time that particular 240Hz TN slower or more ghosty than the 1ms 240Hz IPS panels that hit the market -- they actually definitely look visually faster than the worst 240Hz TNs (i.e. less ghosting)

The 240Hz 1ms IPS package deal is rather nice -- feels fast and feels just like an average 240Hz TN, but good colors, low strobe crosstalk (if using strobe), low lag that is better than some TN, no viewing angle issues, etc. You're making tradeoffs, but the gains can far exceed the losses. Figuratively speaking, instead of 50% cake-and-eat effect, you're getting 75% of cake-and-eat-it-too, fewer compromises.

Your needs may be different, you may need that extra oomph of TN (and the need is definitely genuine) but many people don't realize how much IPS leaped closer to TN. Just because some GtG combos are slow, the same thing happens on 1ms TN panels too. The leap from 3ms IPS to 1ms IPS is extremely huge and the amount of ghosting is actually that much less (two-thirds fainter ghosting artifacts than the old 3ms 165Hz IPS panels of yesteryear, and roughly one-tenth ghosting visibility of 10-year-old 10ms-rated IPS).

Thanks ^^

[AddictFPS]

I'm sure these GtG table MAG251RX is not a 100% GtG transition times, Hardware Unboxed has said the rules used to measure GtG ? 80% or less, i think is less. Sound like each web page that review monitors use a different rule, is fustrant. Moreover there are overshot, so can't fairly compare it with monitors 100% free, like Viewsonic XG270.

Review Zowie XL2540 at RTings.com show maximun 20ms 100% GtG transition, from 100 to 80, using Overdrive Off, that is the only OD level that not show Overshot in any shade.

http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/moni ... -large.jpg

Unfortunately OD Normal and Premium not solve this aberration, 20.5 and 17ms respectively. This response time bug is present in all modern TN monitors ?

TN response times in Zowie XL2540 have very unstable 100% GtG times, minimum 1.3 maximum 20, is excesive difference, IPS XG270 is much more stable across all shades 100% times, varies from 5.5 to 14.3ms , i wonder what are the real 100% times from this MSI.

I prefer talk in 100% times without overshot, is the real/pure response time, the one that show what there are, the only one that maintain the same colors and contrast of static images in moving images, the one that show that realy LCD is far from what gamers want

For example, Acer can continue is atrocious marketing XV273X 0.1ms GtG, is very fun, as RTings.com and TFTCentral say in the review. https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/ac ... xv273x.htm

Don't need bad reviews especulating with numbers, almost all vendors directly make it

Is fun also that in official Benq web: https://zowie.benq.com/en-ap/product/mo ... 2746s.html new XL2746S pictures from horizontal angles, show perfect picture , without any loss due to limited TN viewing angles i think this is not serious, they are a "professional gaming gear", and not show real images from the monitor ? WTF

XL2746S image:



XL2540 viewing angles:

phpBB [video]

TN @ IPS angles , thanks Benq for ur honesty !! Even the woman in the video laughs

TN XL2540 oscile to much in both 100% times and 80% times (rise/fall). Shades that finish in black are the more fast (less 2ms), but not used in average gaming except in dark games, vast majority of shades transitions is close to current IPS numbers, but TN has worst maximun GtG 100% transition with 20ms. Modern IPS 240Hz like Viewsonix XG270 not go beyond 14.3ms max GtG 100% transition in the worst case.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... lite-xg270

And maximun 100% GtG times (and 99-98% can be acceptable) is very important to strobe with low crosstalk at lower frequencies like 100Hz, without issues of color and contrast, but as you can see in these "real" numbers, LCD is far from a FullScreen 100% crosstalk free. All current LCD gaming monitors exceed maximun GtG 100% times 10ms, that is the 100Hz frequency steps, they don't even fit that frequency with margin to spare, is very dissapointing.

[RLCSContender*]

I'm sure these GtG table MAG251RX is not a 100% GtG transition times, Hardware Unboxed has said the rules used to measure GtG ? 80% or less, i think is less. Sound like each web page that review monitors use a different rule, is fustrant. Moreover there are overshot, so can't fairly compare it with monitors 100% free, like Viewsonic XG270.

Review Zowie XL2540 at RTings.com show maximun 20ms 100% GtG transition, from 100 to 80, using Overdrive Off, that is the only OD level that not show Overshot in any shade.

http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/moni ... -large.jpg

Unfortunately OD Normal and Premium not solve this aberration, 20.5 and 17ms respectively. This response time bug is present in all modern TN monitors ?

TN response times in Zowie XL2540 have very unstable 100% GtG times, minimum 1.3 maximum 20, is excesive difference, IPS XG270 is much more stable across all shades 100% times, varies from 5.5 to 14.3ms , i wonder what are the real 100% times from this MSI.

I prefer talk in 100% times without overshot, is the real/pure response time, the one that show what there are, the only one that maintain the same colors and contrast of static images in moving images, the one that show that realy LCD is far from what gamers want

For example, Acer can continue is atrocious marketing XV273X 0.1ms GtG, is very fun, as RTings.com and TFTCentral say in the review. https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/ac ... xv273x.htm

Don't need bad reviews especulating with numbers, almost all vendors directly make it

Is fun also that in official Benq web: https://zowie.benq.com/en-ap/product/mo ... 2746s.html new XL2746S pictures from horizontal angles, show perfect picture , without any loss due to limited TN viewing angles i think this is not serious, they are a "professional gaming gear", and not show real images from the monitor ? WTF

XL2746S image:



XL2540 viewing angles:

phpBB [video]

TN @ IPS angles , thanks Benq for ur honesty !! Even the woman in the video laughs

TN XL2540 oscile to much in both 100% times and 80% times (rise/fall). Shades that finish in black are the more fast (less 2ms), but not used in average gaming except in dark games, vast majority of shades transitions is close to current IPS numbers, but TN has worst maximun GtG 100% transition with 20ms. Modern IPS 240Hz like Viewsonix XG270 not go beyond 14.3ms max GtG 100% transition in the worst case.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... lite-xg270

And maximun 100% GtG times (and 99-98% can be acceptable) is very important to strobe with low crosstalk at lower frequencies like 100Hz, without issues of color and contrast, but as you can see in these "real" numbers, LCD is far from a FullScreen 100% crosstalk free. All current LCD gaming monitors exceed maximun GtG 100% times 10ms, that is the 100Hz frequency steps, they don't even fit that frequency with margin to spare, is very dissapointing.

None of what you said is even remotely noticeable at these ridiculous high framerates. what is noticeable are bad viewing angles, so unless your head is literally on the middle of the monitor, facing it at all times, there will be color shift. ANd even if your head was in the middle, the crappy colors will disort the corners due to how bad the colors are.

You just have to face the fact that what TN had as an advantage over IPS is basically gone or mitigated to levels where it's not even remotely noticeable at these high framerates. Its soooo mitigated that a 1ms g2g advantage, i can argue is redundant and really not needed since the motion clarity at 240hz is excellent.

do you seriuosly believe pixel smearing at 90% compliance is noticeable at 240hz? Hell, even on the 280hz asus where it has only a 25% pixel response compliance to 280hz, the smearing is basically non-existent and the motion clarity with the extra 40hz mitigate a lot of it. An ELMB-SYNC'd Asus at 280hz is way faster than any TN today, esp. if the framerate is very close to the 280hz maximum. MPRT is the most important variable when it comes to speed, on top of a +40hz refresh rate advantage.

get any TN monitor(BenQzowe/omenx25/nitro272/etc and put it side by side to the 280hz asus and have them play a game that goes very fast. Side by side, not only does the asus look faster, but it's also clearer thx to elmb-sync and MUCH more clearer thanks to the extra 40hz refresh rate.

At high framerates, the MSI can easily compete with the best TN because at those really high framerates in practice it's not even remotely noticeable. The MSI has done its job, be as fast as a competent TN monitor while keeping its 10 bit 1 billion colors, 108% srgb, accurate colors, good color uniformity, the best for CONSOLE gaming(ps5/xbox series x. at 3ms g2g w/ hardly any overshoot). But hey, have fun playing halo 7 on your TN probably has 15ms input lag and 9ms response time at lower

Pick your poision

the ASUS beats any 240hz TN at high framerates. 280hz is 280hz

the MSI beats ANY 240hz TN at lower framerates. its overdrive setting is soo excellent that when you put it on "faster" you are set for life. Want to play that new halo game on xbox series x? no problem, 3ms with 2.4ms input lag w/ little to no overshoot on the new halo game on the MSI? no problem.

but hey, keep on bringing up redundance such as

lets just hope the 360hz tn coming out in a few months will save the TN industry

[RLCSContender*]

what's with people here bringing up TN and pulling the

"br0, my tN got 1ms response timefaster! therefore TN>IPS"

we are here to talk about IPS 240hz monitors. I kindly ask we stay on topic

With that being said

I just preordered the Acer predator XB253q gx 240hz ips monitor. Will get it in a week and a half. it's basically an MSI clone. vesa400, 3 overdrive settings, backlight strobing(VRB for acer), 240hz refresh rate, etc. No specs that really make it stand out from the MSI other than its better ergonomic stand

The vietnamese company is claiming 0.5ms response time and 1ms response time without overdrive.

are they serious?

they are making theese claims that W/O overdrive on it has a 1ms g2g average. REALLY? if that is true then

I'm sorry TN, but the predator is claiming 0.1ms response times now

once i get it, i'll test it

[RLCSContender*]

phpBB [video]

looks like acer's 1st 240hz ips monitor Acer Predator XB253q gx has overshoot on its extreme overdrive mode which means their 0.5g2g claims is most likely bogus.

i'm curious how fast its "normal" overdrive setting are. From what i saw, there's no overshoot

im' guessing 3ms

[forii]

I will ask simplier because I feel my previous post was ignored. Which monitor will be better if the fps are bellow 200? the MSI Mag or the Asus? I know the Asus with 280Hz with ELMB sync is faster but, actually for games with fps less than 200, its not even worth to use it. So I for Cod MW (when fps drops to even 150 in warzone, and in multi they are 200~) I stay at 240Hz with 80 OD - do I still have 3,6ms if the fps are bellow 200? I dont use aadaptive sync or elmb. ANd same question with MSI, if the fps are bellow 200, the "faster" mode still prevents 3,2ms response time?