05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

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Thasios
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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by Thasios » 30 Aug 2020, 16:20

RLCScontender wrote:
16 Aug 2020, 05:03

Fast OD from the mag251rx is among the best tuned OD settings out there(just right behind the AW2521HFL_ . here is the UFO ghosting test on "fast". even on OD fast, it's around the 3.4-3.5 g2g average mark which is extremely close to the g2g response time BEFORE inverse ghosting begins to occur.

btw, the UFO tests NEVER LIED to me(presuming i have the shutter at 1/4 the refresh rate, no oversaturation, straight line with a tiny gap in between, cyan color, 960 pixel speed, on the monitor's optimal temperature).. it has literally confirmed every motion artifact(even the hidden ones) on my in practice cannonball test.

my guess is hardware unboxed measured the monitor when it wasn't at its optimal temperature setting.
Hey @RLCScontender, so you are mentioning "optimal temperature" several time to get the response time down on the FAST OD on the MAG251RX, do you mind posting the exakt settings in the OSD to get this optimal temperature?
Last edited by RealNC on 31 Aug 2020, 04:12, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fix tags.

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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by RLCSContender* » 31 Aug 2020, 03:00

wow, i'm utterly shocked at what people post in my thread. People claiming they play at frame rates below the 240hz native scaler? You do realize these are NOT g-sync native monitors. Most of the monitors are freeesync monitors, anything that deviates from the 240hz required framerate WILL introduce more ghosting/inverse ghosting, added input lag, stutter, and the WORST OF ALL MICROSTUTTER. G-sync/Freesync mitigate this but not entirely and in my opinion, turning on g-sync or freesync adds WAY too much input lag to be worth it.

microstutters has cost me over HUNDREDS of lost games in rocket league. Because when i thought i had a PERFECT 70mph game winning power hit, became a total WHIFF or an inadvertant pass to the opposing team leading to a counter attack.

My point is this. Unless you buy a NATIVE g-sync monitor with variable overdrive, if you you are NOT at 240hz FRAME RATE AT ALL TIMES, do not buy a 240hz monitor. Yes, turning on adaptive sync mitigate this but not entirely, and even then you still have to deal with the input lag that comes with it by enabling V-sync.

I'm super strict with my framerate. If it's NOT at 240hz at ALL times, i will make changes(lowering resolution, overclocking my cpu/gpu, or lowering certain graphically demanding settings. All of the 240hz IPS monitors i've tested (except the alienware aw2521hfl/hf, aw2720hf, and acer predator xb273x) has introduced unbearable microstutter whenever the frame rate deviates too much from the maximum refresh rate. Variable overdrive only exist on the alienware aw2521hfl, aw2521hf, aw2720hf, AND the native g-sync IPS monitor xb273 x. All the other monitors do NOT have variable overdrive. Thus, the pixel responsiveness is strongest at around 85-100% of the maximum native refresh rate.

The only FIVE monitors that i've tested and previously owned that didn't introduce that much microstutter/ghosting/inverse ghosting as the framerate deviates from the refresh rate is to no surprise. The native g-sync monitors (acer predator xb273 x, viewsonic elite xg270qg). The freeesync monitors with variable overdrive is the alienware aw2521hfl, aw2521hf, and aw2720hf

The aw2521hf HAS WAYYY better variable overdrive than the acer predator xb273x and the best g-sync monitor viewsonic elite xg270qg). Because of that, it EDGED out the MSI MAG251RX in the best overall motion clarity.

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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by RLCSContender* » 31 Aug 2020, 06:02

Thasios wrote:
30 Aug 2020, 16:20
RLCScontender wrote:
16 Aug 2020, 05:03

Fast OD from the mag251rx is among the best tuned OD settings out there(just right behind the AW2521HFL_ . here is the UFO ghosting test on "fast". even on OD fast, it's around the 3.4-3.5 g2g average mark which is extremely close to the g2g response time BEFORE inverse ghosting begins to occur.

btw, the UFO tests NEVER LIED to me(presuming i have the shutter at 1/4 the refresh rate, no oversaturation, straight line with a tiny gap in between, cyan color, 960 pixel speed, on the monitor's optimal temperature).. it has literally confirmed every motion artifact(even the hidden ones) on my in practice cannonball test.

my guess is hardware unboxed measured the monitor when it wasn't at its optimal temperature setting.
Hey @RLCScontender, so you are mentioning "optimal temperature" several time to get the response time down on the FAST OD on the MAG251RX, do you mind posting the exakt settings in the OSD to get this optimal temperature?
the MSI MAG251RX and all the other 24.5" AU optronics AHVA 240hz IPS monitors (asus vg259qm predator, xb253qgx, lenovo y25-25, pixio px5 hayabusa 2, aw2521hfl/hf, etc tend to have pixels that doesn't retain heat that well. So the pixel responsiveness is much slower from the first 45-1 hour of turning it on.

You can change the color temperature(i did this with the predator xb273 x and msi mag251rx to minimize overshoot) to to increase the pixel response time. Another method is to simply let the monitor stay on for 45 mins to 1 hour, that way the pixel responsiveness increases. The asus vg259qm at OD 60 is heavily judged on this(since it doesnt' retain heat that well) even though i ranked it as the 3rd best OD tuned monitors out of the 20 monitors i've used

with my setting, i used 92-96-100 on the xb273x(that also fixed the white point). The MSI, i just reduced the RGB gain to 5 or 10. Every unit is different and you have to experiment

i've bought 4 MSI MAG251RX's and every single one of them have different requirements when adjusting the RGB temperature to match the 6500k white point AND to reduce overshoot.

generally speaking, u don't have to do all that, just let the monitor stand for 45 mins to 1 hour the pixel responsiveness should be optimal.

jimbus80
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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by jimbus80 » 31 Aug 2020, 10:21

I'm among AW2521HFL, MAG251RX and XG270QG. I don't care about the price (I care, but it's not the point here). I want the smoothest experience (no stuttering, no ghosting...). Any ideas?

Stevie66
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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by Stevie66 » 31 Aug 2020, 12:16

jimbus80 wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 10:21
I'm among AW2521HFL, MAG251RX and XG270QG. I don't care about the price (I care, but it's not the point here). I want the smoothest experience (no stuttering, no ghosting...). Any ideas?
Try them all and return the losers, or look at reviews and see which has the lowest response time and ghosting at the fps you are targeting.

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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 31 Aug 2020, 13:00

RLCScontender wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 03:00
My point is this. Unless you buy a NATIVE g-sync monitor with variable overdrive, if you you are NOT at 240hz FRAME RATE AT ALL TIMES, do not buy a 240hz monitor. Yes, turning on adaptive sync mitigate this but not entirely, and even then you still have to deal with the input lag that comes with it by enabling V-sync.
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Although I agree specifically if you only play Rocket League --
In general, I disagree, because not everyone uses monitors in the same way.

1. 240 Hz is not just for games.
Ergonomics. There are some of us with motion blur headaches / eyestrain. A 240 Hz monitor has clearer browser scrolling. Even buying a 240 Hz monitor just for web browsing has ergonomic benefits for some of us who are sensitive to eyestrain. The upcoming 360 Hz monitor by ASUS is reportedly covering most of the DCI P3 color gamut, so it is increasingly possible to have cake and eat it too. On a 240Hz monitor, browser scrolling is 75% clearer than on a 60Hz monitor with only one-quarter the scrolling motion blur. That's twice as clear scrolling as a 120Hz iPad, when you use smooth-scroll features such as keyboard arrows or mousewheel scrolling.

2. Refresh rate headroom for improved strobe quality
Some monitors are tuned in such a way to get superior low-Hz strobing. Well-tuned 120fps@120Hz strobing on a 240Hz panel can be superior to well-tuned 120fps@120Hz strobing on a 144Hz panel. This does not happen to all panels (Example: ELMB-SYNC algorithms) but when the panel is tuned to their absolute scientific maximum potential for flashed-backlight motion-blur-reduction algorithms, the way GtG can be hidden between refresh cycles, is easier with faster-velocity refresh cycles with longer-delays between refresh cycles. (120Hz = half of the time refreshing, half of the time idling to finish GtG, during a 240Hz operation)

3. Flexibility for variety of games
You can manually switch to a fixed-Hz 144Hz operation which often has better overdrive than 144Hz VRR.

4. FreeSync quality varies a lot
Some of them have reasonably serviceable VRR overdrive, better than the worst native G-SYNC (even native G-SYNC can vary in quality).

5. Lower input lag for lower Hz
Framerate-capped VRR is a very good "low lag VSYNC ON" technique. This is useful for fixed-framerate games as well as emulators.

There are other reasons to get high refresh rates that are application specific or doesn't even have anything to do with games.
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jimbus80
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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by jimbus80 » 31 Aug 2020, 13:03

Stevie66 wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 12:16
Try them all and return the losers, or look at reviews and see which has the lowest response time and ghosting at the fps you are targeting.
The point of not to buy/try all of them. In fact, I've tried a lot and all had micro stuttering (which is very annoying), except the XG270GQ. I have now in my desk the MSI MAG251RX, but I see stuttering and blur very often. So, now my only doubt is between XG270GQ and AW2521HFL. Any pros/contras? I only care about the best variable overdrive (I cannot keep constant fps and wanna use VRR), smoothness (so no stuttering), no double images, etc.

I wouldn't mind 165 fps vs 240 if the Viewsonic general experience was more satisfying. And the opposite: I wouldn't mind 1080p vs 1440p if the Alienware gaming experience was better. What I don't want is 27'' 1080p because I cannot bear that low pixel density. Please, help.

Stevie66
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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by Stevie66 » 31 Aug 2020, 13:18

jimbus80 wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 13:03
Stevie66 wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 12:16
Try them all and return the losers, or look at reviews and see which has the lowest response time and ghosting at the fps you are targeting.
The point of not to buy/try all of them. In fact, I've tried a lot and all had micro stuttering (which is very annoying), except the XG270GQ. I have now in my desk the MSI MAG251RX, but I see stuttering and blur very often. So, now my only doubt is between XG270GQ and AW2521HFL. Any pros/contras? I only care about the best variable overdrive (I cannot keep constant fps and wanna use VRR), smoothness (so no stuttering), no double images, etc.

I wouldn't mind 165 fps vs 240 if the Viewsonic general experience was more satisfying. And the opposite: I wouldn't mind 1080p vs 1440p if the Alienware gaming experience was better. What I don't want is 27'' 1080p because I cannot bear that low pixel density. Please, help.
Do you have any monitors currently that don't stutter at high fps? if not it might be your hardware or settings then, the 240hz monitors I've tried so far had no stutters including the MSI MAG and I'm pretty sensitive to micro stutters.

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Re: 05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

Post by purplew » 31 Aug 2020, 13:24

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
31 Aug 2020, 13:00
Although I agree specifically if you only play Rocket League --
Wait, so if I play competitive games and I get ~170fps i should put it on 144hz instead?

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