05/22/2020 UPDATE. The IPS 240hz monitor tier list.(I've measured/tried the all) and my honest explanation why.

[ptuga]

Input lag and human benchmarks

With my own human benchmarks, after a crapload of attempts, The fastest i got was 2ms (by guessing) on the alienware aw2521hfl. here's a quick demonstration i made the other day to show the diff of 60hz vs 240hz(btw, my own personal benchmark is different bcuz you're not ME, and i'm not you. However, the monitor is capable of getting 2ms. Hell, i got 17ms on my 2nd try

phpBB [video]

(occasional pixel walk happens but it just means i was recording too close to the monitor)

The big difference in human reaction test between 240hz and 60hz is mainly because windows has forced vsync, in a game with the same fps the difference is much lower. Anyway, you must have other source of input lag, because on 240hz you should easily do under 200ms on average.
I have a 27gl850 and depending on day o get 150-170ms on average after 10 tries.

Those 17ms are outliers that don't matter, you guessed instead of reacting...

[RLCSContender*]

Input lag and human benchmarks

With my own human benchmarks, after a crapload of attempts, The fastest i got was 2ms (by guessing) on the alienware aw2521hfl. here's a quick demonstration i made the other day to show the diff of 60hz vs 240hz(btw, my own personal benchmark is different bcuz you're not ME, and i'm not you. However, the monitor is capable of getting 2ms. Hell, i got 17ms on my 2nd try

phpBB [video]

(occasional pixel walk happens but it just means i was recording too close to the monitor)

The big difference in human reaction test between 240hz and 60hz is mainly because windows has forced vsync, in a game with the same fps the difference is much lower. Anyway, you must have other source of input lag, because on 240hz you should easily do under 200ms on average.
I have a 27gl850 and depending on day o get 150-170ms on average after 10 tries.

Those 17ms are outliers that don't matter, you guessed instead of reacting...

My own personal reaction time is inconsequential and wasnt what i was looking for.

I was recording to see what was possible on the monitor. My best was 2ms by guessing on the alienware aw2521hfl. The viewsonic and LG has way more input lag than any 240hz ips monitor that i tested. And this is under 1000 polling rate on my ps4 controller

Also Congrats? Your reaction times are faster than mine? I am in my early 30s. And i average 190-195ms which is above average

[ptuga]

My own personal reaction time is inconsequential and wasnt what i was looking for.

I was recording to see what was possible on the monitor. My best was 2ms by guessing on the alienware aw2521hfl. The viewsonic and LG has way more input lag than any 240hz ips monitor that i tested. And this is under 1000 polling rate on my ps4 controller

Also Congrats? Your reaction times are faster than mine? I am in my early 30s. And i average 190-195ms which is above average

Try this. Use a proper gaming mouse, with good light actuation clicks, make sure to have something running in the backgroup that forces windows timing resolution to 1ms. I would also make sure windows power is in high performance just to make sure cpu doesn't change clock.

Then tell me the results... I keep seeing the age comment, yet a friend of mine has about the same as me on same pc and he's over 30.

[RLCSContender*]

^
^
ptuga

My own personal human benchmarks wasn't the PURPOSE of that test. So what i dont' get is why you are pushing things on me that isn't relevant to my underlying point. All i was doing is seeing the lowest millisecond the monitor is capable of achievable. If anything, GUESSING is the only way to see it and 2ms was the lowest i got by guessing. This will be the last comment i will speak about to you about this subject. If you have any comments or questions regarding anything else, feel free to PM me or make a post. Thanks

speaking of LG27gl850-b, i will post an ultimate UPDATE and review about it. followed by more samsung odyssey g7 part 2 review(in practice results)

[RLCSContender*]

Odyssey G7 part 2 vs Nano IPS review (TRIPLE REVIEW). IN PRACTICE and Viewsonic elite xg270qg ULMB vs Samsung odyssey g7's MBR. who wins? but before i talk about that, watch this video first on how I found all of these motion artifacts

phpBB [video]

As you can see,i too have my own personal "blur busting" tool. So i'm going to give credit to mark from blurbusters since i am clearly copying his UFO test but i'm copying it in PRACTICE based off the game i play the most. so plz don't sue me LOL



I'm sort of saddened how so many ppl truly believe the "black smear" from the odyssey G7 doesn't exist. Despite it CLEARLY showing on the UFO tests from mine AND hardware unboxed. Hate to say it but those UFO tests never lie. I truly believe that those UFO ghosting tests are the most accurate way to measure response times relative to other monitors. I will PROVE everything in this post [/b] Here is hardware unboxed UFO ghosting test 240hz adaptive sync


post a picture (TOP alien)

here is my samsung odyssey g7 UFo ghosting test at 240hz adaptive sync ON

(middle alien 960 pixel speed, cyan)

viewsonic elite xg270qg ULMB @120hz SMH....



Scroll all the way down to see the results. Otherwise, i will post the review of the nano viewsonic and nano LG monitors first


LG 27gl850-b and viewsonic elite xg270qg double review




Overall. LG 27GL850-B and viewsonic elite xg270qg are ultimately the best monitor i have ever tested in my entire life. Literally almost every thing ticks with these two monitors

Imagine owning a monitor that is
#1 in colors (no other monitor is more vibrant since 98% dci-p3 and 133% SRGB is the highest color gamut you can get for gaming.
#1 in response time( relative to other 1440p IPS monitors. Based off my tests, there isn't any other monitor that comes close in response times as these two, only TN is capable of being faster)

These two monitors fit that mold and they exemplify what a monitor should be when it comes to QUALITY. In my opinion, they are 100% worth your money


These two monitors are the ULTIMATE gaming monitor you can buy today The LG27GL850-B is the ultimate winner and the best overall monitor that I have personally ever tested followed by the viewsonic elite xg270qg.






(flashlighting was fixed since i used a semi-damp cloth to massage it out, also the camera detects IPS glow much more than my own two eyes, i was not able to see ANY glow, it looked dark)


slight flashlighting(BLB) on bottom left corner but it's very feint and almost every viewsonic monitor has it anyway. Otherwise, i got ucky with this panel since there is no bad backlight bleed.


UFO pursuit ghosting test(zero artifacts, NONE nada zilch). This has probably the most feint inverse ghosting i've ever seen where the inverse ghosting coronas are invisible. I didn't see ONE inverse ghosting corona when i did my cannonball test on rocket league and that game is Excellent at showing them. 0.5% overshoot error rate. Also, these two monitors have the best PIXEL inversion/pixel walk results that i've seen when using LAGOM. (btw, all 30ish monitors i've purhcased failed that lagom pixel walk test, but these two ultimately faile the least in that test.

LG 27Gl850-B 144hz OD Fast

phpBB [video]

Viewsonic ELITE XG270QG 165hz OD standard

phpBB [video]

Viewsonic ELITE XG270QG backlight strobing @120hz

MBR from odyssey g7 andULMB from viewsonic xg270qg IN PRACTICE RESULTS(WARNING! these unwanted motion artifacts/motion blur/etc may annoy you!).

Both the viewsonic elite xg270qg and the samsung odyssey g7 ellicit quadruple cross talk . only difference is, the odyssey g7 doesn't have that annoying red phosphor that may give ppl seizures thanks to the wide color gamut backlight.(thisi s probably the reason why the lg 27gl850-b chose to not make it a native g-sync monitor.

viewsonic elite xg270qg red phosphor(red monster, red death). I rank this as the #1 most ANNOYING artifact ABOVE black level smearing.



2nd most annoying unwanted artifact is BLACK LEVEL Smearing(This is samsung odyssey g7's black level smearing IN PRACTICE)



more black smearing from the odyssey g7



MBR from the odyssey won't save you. Instead you will see QUADRUPLE crosstalk



MBR OFF? you see this black smear artifact(this isn't the fresnel effect, that's a legit unwanted black smear)



inverse ghosting corona and blacksmear at the same time? Yup, the odyssey g7 can make this possible.



Tried another FPS title that i rented on steam and nothing changed



Black smear makes EVERYTHING BLURRY based off my tests especially when you move your camera. Blacks are SO dominant and the most common color that if a darker shade of grey smears, EVERYTHING WILL LOOK EXTREMELY BLURRY.

The odyssey g7's black smear artifacts are a GODSEND compared to this monstrosity(viewsonic elite xg270qg ULMB). It's not just moving objects, but EVERYTHING!! it's so bad that i had the viewsonic nano IPS as DEAD last above the xg279q and the odyssey g7's Strobing.





I have the crosstalk aggression graph but i will post that in a few days since i will do an ultimate update

Fun fact! the viewsonic elite xg270 is RANKED #1 overall whereas the viewsonic elite xg270qg ranked DEAD LAST overall. Samsung odyssey g7's MBR ranked 2 notches above

IN CONCLUSION

the viewsonic nano IPS is still better than the odyssey g7 because even without its ULMB, it's still a GREAT monitor overall. Fast response times, excellent colors, good quality. The odyssey g7 on the other hand doesn't have anything going for it.

1. HDR600 in my opinion is useless, adds too much input lag, and should be turned off at all times
2. the curve may not be a preference for some people. My cousin said "it looks like a monitor with a deep bend in the middle and not in a good way"
3. Adaptive sync ON 240hz has black level smearing. It doesn't matter if the response times are fast It can have a 0.1ms g2g for all i care. If there is BLACK smear, it will SHOW and the BLUR annoyed the hell out of me! Unfortunately, that is synonymous with this technology they call VA.
4. the contrast ratios(although id ont' have hardware to measure it, from what i've seen is 2000:1. The MSI MAG251RX has a contrast ratio of about 1200:1. (800 less,) which is noticeable but not to the point where you have to compromise black level smearing, a $700 price tag, bad viewing angles
5. Lastly and most important of all. 240hz at 1440p resolution. NO modern AAA title can RUn 240hz framerate at 1440p resolution, not even the fastest GPU rtx 2080ti. The fastest that i've seen was about 140hz-155hz(far cry 5), and that is with LOW settings, basically it would need another 90hz make it to 240hz FPS. So it's not even remotely practical. it's counter productive and redundant.And because this isn't a native g-sync monitor, without variable overdrive, this montior isn't safe from microsttuters, stutter, judder, more ghosting, more input lag if the framerate deviates too much from the refresh rate.
6. Input lag. More input lag than the other IPS monitors i've measured. Also, for some weird reason, adaptive sync off has more input lag than adaptive sync on. And whenever you change the OVERDRIVE setting, the input lag is NOTICEABLY worse or better depending on what refresh rate. If anyone have any answer to this, feel free to respond or PM me. I'm guessing it's the technology(VA) that is causing this but i'm not too sure.

I gave this monitor(odyssey g7) a 1/10 and i ranked it DEAD LAST among all of the monitors i've ever owned. I'm sorry but THE MORE EXPENSIVE THE MONITOR IS, THE MORE STRICT MY EXPECTATIONS. $700 IS insane relative to the specs that are basically redundant/impractical if you think about it logically.

point of reference.



PS,it may look like i'm bashing the odyssey g7. But lets be real here. The PRICE TAG is $700. Think about it... I tell myself this. if somethiing is $700, "IT BETTER BE GOOD" " IT BETTER HAVE THIS, IT BETTER HAVE THAT" and yes, i'm going to admit, my expectations are VERY high if i buy something as expensive as the odyssey g7. So yes, i will admit that i am bashing this monitor but justifiably so relative to its ridiculous pricetag. Hopefully, i get some empathetic readers here who know where i am coming from as a consumer.

also, acer predator x25 360hz monitor. $1100 USD, oh boy. I CANNOT WAIT!! I will be SUPER strict with this because the price tag is BEYOND ridiculous. The odyssey g7 did NOT live up to the hype. I rest my case. My suggestion is, wait for this monitor to drop to $400-$450. It's STILL a fun monitor to use.

-RLCS

the VG259Qm, VG279qm MSI MAG251RX and the fixed 60hz input lag PLAGUE IS NEXT! Sorry for the delay but the vg259qm will be reviewed next. I just wanted to BUST the odyssey g7's BLUR first.

[iopq]

That test is actually really annoying, I can get 175ms when it shows the damn thing fast enough, after 7-8 seconds I just lose concentration and get like 220ms.

[RLCSContender*]

Nearly done with 1440p gaming but i will give a big shout out two these monitors who simply didn't make the cut but are still decent for competitive gaming

Lenovo Legion y27q-20 165hz nano ips g-sync compatible (165hz nano IPS)
Asus TUF VG27AQ (165hz innolux monitor)
Gigabyte Aorus Fi27Q-P
LG 38GL950G (38" ultrawide g-sync)



The LG 38GL950G, my cousin bought and returned this but the inverse ghosting was simply too much inverse ghosting on its "fast" setting at 175hz. Overdrive "OFF" for the 38gl950g has too slow of a response times of around 7ms grey to grey. MY LG 34gk950F-B has a lower response time on its optimal refresh rate of 144hz




Innolux panels ASUS tuf VG27AQ & Gigabyte Aorus Fi27q-p. No comment on these two monitors. Never owned or an innolux panel. From what i'm reading, these monitors have low input lag at 60hz and fast response times. No comment anything outside of that.

That aperture grille guy who occasionally posts here did a review on the vg27aq, check it out

uh... he uses frogs to determine ghosting and has his own terminology called "CAD"... no further comment on that. overall it seems like a decent review non-the-less.
https://www.aperturegrille.com/reviews/ASUSVG27AQ/




Lenovo Legion y27q-20. This monitor is very hard to come by in the united states because it's not sold on any major retailer. As a matter of fact, i've spotted MORE FAKEs than actual Lenovo Legion y27q-20 that i'm not going to take the risk of buying it. I don't get why lenovo is choosing to not sell their flagship monitor on major retailers like amazon. But here are the inferences i'm going to make

**Be aware, these are just INFERENCES, nothing more, i have never personally tested the lenovo legion y27q-20 so these are nothing more than a hypothesis or an semi-ignorant guess. **

Since the Lenovo Legion y27q-20 uses the LG panel, at 144hz, there is probably little to no chance t's faster than the LG27GL850-B. the LG already has the most feint inverse ghosting i've seen at 144hz with a 4.4ms g2g average. If the lenovo has a lower response time then it will for sure have more inverse ghosting at 144hz since they are using the same exact panel.

at 165hz, there's also little to no chance chance it's faster than the viewsonic elite xg270qg because the ELITE already has a 2.5% inverse ghosting error rate. The only way the lenovo legion can improve on that is if it has a LOWER inverse ghosting error rate but with a slightly slower response time. Unfortunately though, the Lenovo Legion doesn't have variable overdrive whereas the Viewsonic ELITE nano IPS does.

me personally, i would just stick to the LG or viewsonic but that's just my opinion. These are well reviewed monitors from multiple mainstream and trustworthy sources and by playing it safe, you are guaranteed to have a great quality monitor

There aren't any mainstream review of the lenovo legion y27q-20 so nobody even knows the delta E on its SRGB mode. hardly anyone knows the g2g averages at 165hz, 144hz, etc You are taking a big gamble if you choose the lenovo legion since hardly anyone did a detailed review on it.

[Chief Blur Buster]

And whenever you change the OVERDRIVE setting, the input lag is NOTICEABLY worse or better depending on what refresh rate. If anyone have any answer to this, feel free to respond or PM me. I'm guessing it's the technology(VA) that is causing this but i'm not too sure.

That's because the GtG curve shape becomes different at different overdrive settings, and most lag stopwatches stop at some point during the GtG curve (say, GtG 10% or GtG 50%).

For a pixel transitioning from black to white, the transition from GtG 0% to GtG 100% is equivalent to a pixel "fading" form black towards white. The light from pixels become human visible early-ish in the curve (say, GtG 10%), but the locations of a GtG % will vary hugely depending on the curve shape:
- Temperature changes
- Overdrive setting changes
- Refresh rate
- Color pair chosen, like VA dark colors
- Color/gamma settings (Which affects the color of the color pair chosen, which thus dominoes to a different GtG).
- Panel lottery (You get two different GtG numbers from two units of the same monitor)
- Measurement location (A corner of the screen may have slightly faster GtG than opposite corner of screen: The longer distance of wires means more resistance means less power available for fastest GtG at opposite panel edge)
- Etc.

Refresh rate can change pixel response too. Pixels usually respond fastest at roughly 80%-100% of monitor's maximum refresh rate. We found that certain 240Hz IPS monitors respond fastest at ~224Hz (example XG270), where GtG of 240Hz and 60Hz was slightly slower.

That's why it's so tough to measure display lag in a way that's similar to human vision, and a large reason that the same tester can vary hugely between different panels.

That's why we prefer to be hawks about disclosure of lag measurement methodology around here.

[RLCSContender*]

And whenever you change the OVERDRIVE setting, the input lag is NOTICEABLY worse or better depending on what refresh rate. If anyone have any answer to this, feel free to respond or PM me. I'm guessing it's the technology(VA) that is causing this but i'm not too sure.

That's because the GtG curve shape becomes different at different overdrive settings, and most lag stopwatches stop at some point during the GtG curve (say, GtG 10% or GtG 50%).

For a pixel transitioning from black to white, the transition from GtG 0% to GtG 100% is equivalent to a pixel "fading" form black towards white. The light from pixels become human visible early-ish in the curve (say, GtG 10%), but the locations of a GtG % will vary hugely depending on the curve shape:
- Temperature changes
- Overdrive setting changes
- Refresh rate
- Color pair chosen, like VA dark colors
- Color/gamma settings (Which affects the color of the color pair chosen, which thus dominoes to a different GtG).
- Panel lottery (You get two different GtG numbers from two units of the same monitor)
- Measurement location (A corner of the screen may have slightly faster GtG than opposite corner of screen: The longer distance of wires means more resistance means less power available for fastest GtG at opposite panel edge)
- Etc.

Refresh rate can change pixel response too. Pixels usually respond fastest at roughly 80%-100% of monitor's maximum refresh rate. We found that certain 240Hz IPS monitors respond fastest at ~224Hz (example XG270), where GtG of 240Hz and 60Hz was slightly slower.

That's why it's so tough to measure display lag in a way that's similar to human vision, and a large reason that the same tester can vary hugely between different panels.

That's why we prefer to be hawks about disclosure of lag measurement methodology around here.

Input lag is among the toughest to get down to 99.9% accuracy EVEN if I have the proper tools. Wish i had a CRT panel that way it's much easier to cross reference the display lag by cross referencing my esults to see how much input lag i'm getting from LCDs. I have the proper tools to measure input lag but the interpretation part and getting the right data on those wavelengths can be tricky and don't forget outliers, polling rates, motherboard that MAy contribute to input lag, cables, how fast the scaler is on the panel(if u intend to measure vsync on/off/ gsync on off/etc),. So many things have to be factored in. i try my best to keep it simple with the hardware i have. pixel response time element+processing latency, then i use human benchmarks to "GUESS" the lowest ms i can get for that specific monitor Yes, i can measure the color change in milliseconds to get the pixel response time element but in my opinion, in practice by guessing is better on that human benchmark website. The lowest i've gotten was 2ms and 3ms both on the aw2521hfl(on my 1ms latency DS4 (ps4 controller which is at 1000 polling rate).

I saw a video where someone was using a Leo Bodnar input lag measuring tool and all he did was press the button on that tool and the display will instantly tell you how much display lag the monitor has. I wish it was that easy.

As for that previous post is concerned, i just noticed volatile latency way more when i used the odyssey g7(WAY MORE) relative to the IPS monitors i've used when changing OD. From what i hear, it has a lot to do with the very slow deep blacks which isn't typical of the g2g curve i was used to(IPS), which means any form of increased pixel voltages will have volatile latency due to the pixel response time elements changing. also, the g2g curve on the odyssey is among the weirdest i've seen. Slow deep blacks but fast whites and other shades of grey. That threw me off on the odyssey g7 UFO ghosting test where there's no ghosting on the dome but smearing behind the UFO aircraft(therefore, it's not "ghosting" all it is doing is smearing the darker shades of grey).

Thanks for that information. "pixels usually respond fastest at roughly 80-100% of the monitor's maximum refresh rate". That's really interesting information. Then again some monitors are consistent accross the refresh rate range. the AW2521HFL for example is just as fast at 60hz than at 240hz when it comes to g2g response times; however, the LG 27GL850-B has a very fast pixel response time at 144hz refresh but not so much at other refresh rates. Just curious, how does variable overdrive from native g-sync panels play a role in how pixels respond at different refresh rates I'm starting to believe variable overdrive is just a fancy name from someone from nvidia who tuned the g-sync monitor's overdrive to its optimal performance throughout the refresh rate range. Then again, i play a VERY LOW demanding game where the FPS is always at 250hz which is the FPS cap on rocket league so i'm not able to distinguish variable overdrive as opposed to a freesync monitor without variable overdrive. Also, if you turn g-sync off, will "variable overdrive" also be off? The reason why i havn't done my research is because the game i play is ALWAYS at a fixed framerate so it's not in my train of thought to read up on it.

This is the very first time i've used a monitor where there is LESS input lag when adaptive sync is on Usually it's the other way around.(ex. g-sync adds input lag but at the benefit of decreased microstutters and no tearing). I almost/always have g-sync turned off since i personally do not see any tearing at 240hz anyway much less find it a nuisance since it dissipates quickly.

overall i'm quite pleased with myself how far i 've came when i write these reviews. I thought "temperature" was absolutely bogus. Now i use temperature to mitigate inverse ghosting by messing with the color temperatures on the OSD and each monitor i've used were at their warmest/optimal temperature. The most useful change i've made was those in practice tests... Especially when i found my own methods digging up those motion artifacts(literally what i saw on those UFO 99% of the time showed in practice one way or another). Ever since i followed the 960 pixel speed UFO to my in cannonball test in rocket league, i've basically CHANGED my standards on the correct overdrive setting to use which means "FAST" on the msi mag251rx and OD OFF on xb273x and xb253q gx since inverse ghosting coronas in my opinion are extremely annoying. inverse ghosting coronas has made me mess up in rocket league way more than any other artifact since i was reacting more to that stupid bright corona than the actual ball during a heated competitive game.

[RLCSContender*]

well whaddya know ptuga got 130ms on the 5 attempts required in less than 5 mins of doing it.



got 159ms on my 2nd try(one of which was 19ms). This isnt' a coincidence since i was able to repeat this the second time like the previous video where i got 17ms on my second attempt.

phpBB [video]

PS, my ps4 controller was 1000 polling rate on 1ms input lag. The absolute best time i got on those human benchmarks by guessing is 2ms and 3ms BOTH on the alienware. With 1ms latency, that would literally mean that the alienware aw2521hfl has 1ms input lag(although i've measured less on my oscilloscope)