MSI OPTIX MAG251RX Review by RLCSContender

[vlkfree]

you don't understand my point of view
you was talking about the MSI like something a WAYYYY sharper than other fast IPS, but it's not

even if the msi is better (not a WAYYYY), the result is the same -> fast ips ghosting test = shit
you can't do better than a TN

[RLCSContender*]

I don't remember which of the many MSI OPTIX MAG251RX threads it was discussed in(I've poked into each one and cannot find the discussion) but how can this monitor have around 120% SRGB when MSI claims its only 100%. Is there panel variation that can get you above average saturation or are MSI being modest? I haven't seen any company selling a 240hz+ IPS claiming wide-gamut colors and from what I see on the various display roadmaps the panels that can do vibrant colors & 240hz are still in development.

here's the backstory. the MSI and ASUS was supposed to be wide gamut panels at around 95% DCI-p3 but to avoid cost with a more expensive backlight, they resorted to SRGB 99% instead; however, they still kept the slightly oversaturated backlight and at minimum the MSI and Asus will always be slightly saturated.

from 108% SRGB to as high as 125% SRGB(My MSI is legitimately 125% SRGB, I compared the vibrancy of my viewsonic elite xg270qg which is a 98% dci-p3 133% SRGB panel and the vibrant images is almost as vibrant as Nano viewsonic).

here's the factory average if you're curious

[Chief Blur Buster]

Freezeframe selection can obviously be better -- I have chosen a better one out of the video.

So, anyway, to zoom onto an example good freezeframe of the RLCSContender video (regardless of opinion of his technique).

I analyzed this YouTube video, just for kicks.

Searching freezeframes are my proper way to analyze handwave pursuit camera footage. To grab the best freezeframe, I singlestepped using "," and "." keys at the highest YouTube resolution, and found something near 0:07 to screen capture and zoom, of a sync track error margin that I liked.

Hand wave shakiness varies widely throughout a whole video file, but there are often instantaneous chances of sufficiently small shakiness. For this specific freezeframe, handwave shakiness is definitely subpixel both horizontally and vertically. From what I see in the sync track, the accumulated hand tracking vertical error margin over 4 refresh cycles was only approximately one-quarter pixelheight -- while an estimate, it is clearly subpixel combined error margin.

Now tracking accuracy confirmed, time to closely analyze what's true WYSIWYG and what's not true WYSIWYG. This is somewhat subjective due to so many smartphone auto-everything behaviours, but at least the auto-everything behaviours are so well-known, that they are quickly identified.



Once I trust the sync track certificate, I can finally analyze:

WYSIWYG Cons
- Compression artifacts out of the wazoo. Biggest error margin in analysis.
- Clipped histogram issue. Camera automatically oversaturates the colors (red bleed) blowing out other detail (e.g. black-lines detail lost in red UFO body).
- Focus is not subpixel-league, but adequate for basic analysis
- Much noise is completely filtered out due to compression artifacts and lowness of resolution when zoomed
- Auto-sharpening in smartphone camera shows sharpening artifacts at high-contrast edges

WYSIWYG Pros
- It correctly shows faint horizontal screendoor lines (vertical error margin is very subpixel).
- It correctly shows the faint brightened corona to the left of the black UFO legs.
- It correctly shows a blurrier left-edge than right-edge, very common on most panels
- It correctly shows dome haze to the left (ghosting). All LCDs do this to 'some' degrees, some below human visibility noisefloor of some humans, while others really get distracted by it (much like they get distracted by tearing more than the next person, or pick-your-favourite-nit-pick of motion -- everyone is picky in different ways).
- It correctly shows the faint color tinting of yellow UFO (reddish on left edge, greenish on right edge) from the blurred subpixels (R leftmost subpixel, B rightmost subpixel). I see this even in display-motionblurred motion when tracking eyes on UFO.

I see these artifacts instantly when I play videogames, but the next person don't. Everybody is picky in different ways for real-world games. Poor color? Tearing? Stutter? Faint ghost artifacts? Discolored ghosting? Etc. And sometimes what is not visible in some games (CS:GO) is amplified visibility in another (Fortnite) due to different colors chosen.

Fortnite often uses more saturated TestUFO-like colors than CS:GO does, and the 3rd person view means turn-blur and overhead flying objects more resemble TestUFO motio ntests. So some realworldness of TestUFO varies on a game-by-game basis. And of course, if you haven't controlled your microstutters (e.g. 400dpi mouse preference), you won't see TestUFO-smoothness in your game, and thus won't see the artifacts as well.

And of course, artifacts are more visible at 4K 144fps than at 1080p 144fps, if you're LUCKY to have a 4K 144Hz vs 1080p 144Hz, and a GPU powerful enough (RTX 2080) to do a 144fps versus test in your favourite game. That's the Vicious Cycle Effect in action.

See? Still has some usable analysis value.
I prefer these stuff be done by professional reviewers, but I continually encourage hobbyists (of all stripes) to keep practicing hand-wave pursuit camera. It's still scientifically usable, even Ph.D / graduates agree.

The sync track to me, is like a certificate of tracking accuracy, no matter how you tracked (rail or railless). Once it's done, it's easy to identify camera limitations (e.g. compresison artifacts, histogram blowouts, noise filtering artifacts etc), THEN continue analysis of what wasn't filtered out.

Another reason why I encourage readers to experiment with pursuit camera is to better understand how to improve error margin analysis.

I don't like the bait headlines (I edited that out, RLCSContender), but anyway, I'm not discouraging hobbyist pursuit camera. Keep it up everyone (no matter who you are). Just remember this is a discussion forum, carry a backpack full of salt grains, and remember to correctly analyze without boasting "This Is My Perfect Pursuit. LOL. MICDROP. TL;DR. TRUTH" -- that's going to be unceremoniously edited out.

Pursuit camera is inherently imperfect. But as seen in the above, there's value especially when one works to find-best-freezeframe-and-zoom.

The art of the freezeframe selection is sometimes a skilled job. The good news is that job can partially be outsourced sorta (hobbyist pursuit video + me choosing best freezeframe with sufficiently low tracking error margin)

[RLCSContender*]

you don't understand my point of view
you was talking about the MSI like something a WAYYYY sharper than other fast IPS, but it's not

even if the msi is better (not a WAYYYY), the result is the same -> fast ips ghosting test = shit
you can't do better than a TN

7-8% overshoot on its 3rd over drive>>>>>0% overshoot on its middle overdrive on the predator. have fun using extreme on your pedator with its 50-70% overshoot error rate.

6-8% slight overshoot DOESN'T MATTER AT 240HZ. How many times do I have to tell you that. 240hz refresh increases motion clarity by A LOT and makes things like smearing/overshoot imperceptible because the monitor is refreshing very quickly.

This is problematic about TN. Yes, they have better "ufo" tests, but 240hz makes their "better UFO" tests inconsequential anyway , but instead it will make TN's faster g2g REDUNDANT and counter productive. Therefore TN will NOT HAVE AN ADVANTAGE AT 240HZ. NONE NADA ZILCH. if TWO equally skilled players used the MSI and the fastest TN(omen x25f), because at high framerates, the differences are so negligible(impossible to tell) that the TN will NOT have an advantage whatsoever in the long run.

not going to reply to you anymore and putting you on ignore. You keep on repeating yourself as if you are a broken record.

me personally, i would rather have 6-8% overshoot at 3ms than 0% overshoot at 4-4.2ms.In my opinion, Acer isn't maximizing its g2g potential on its optimal overdrive(normal) by having 0% overshoot.

PS. ALL OF THE ACER NITROS AND ACER PREDATOR'S HAVE THIS PRPOBLEM. The G-sync Predator(which my cousin purchased a week ago), i visited him yesterday and clearly, EVEN its variable overdrive is not REMOTELY closer to being faster than the MSI. add in the fact that it's 27" 1080p, and that g-sync is useless for 240hzmonitors anyway, the MSI is clearly still the reigning champ in the 240hz IPS race.

[RedCloudFuneral]

I don't remember which of the many MSI OPTIX MAG251RX threads it was discussed in(I've poked into each one and cannot find the discussion) but how can this monitor have around 120% SRGB when MSI claims its only 100%. Is there panel variation that can get you above average saturation or are MSI being modest? I haven't seen any company selling a 240hz+ IPS claiming wide-gamut colors and from what I see on the various display roadmaps the panels that can do vibrant colors & 240hz are still in development.

here's the backstory. the MSI and ASUS was supposed to be wide gamut panels at around 95% DCI-p3 but to avoid cost with a more expensive backlight, they resorted to SRGB 99% instead; however, they still kept the slightly oversaturated backlight and at minimum the MSI and Asus will always be slightly saturated.

from 108% SRGB to as high as 125% SRGB(My MSI is legitimately 125% SRGB, I compared the vibrancy of my viewsonic elite xg270qg which is a 98% dci-p3 133% SRGB panel and the vibrant images is almost as vibrant as Nano viewsonic).

here's the factory average if you're curious

That's some good data thanks. I was about to go with the Omen X 27 as it claims wide gamut but I see that I have options if I want a boosted color palette & high refresh. Hopefully one of the companies will use both the panel & the fancy backlight, even if it means they need to drop the strobe.

[Chief Blur Buster]

but instead it will make TN's faster g2g REDUNDANT and counter productive. Therefore TN will NOT HAVE AN ADVANTAGE AT 240HZ. NONE NADA ZILCH. if TWO equally skilled players used the MSI and the fastest TN(omen x25f), because at high framerates, the differences are so negligible(impossible to tell) that the TN will NOT have an advantage whatsoever in the long run.

Disagree, I've already posted details before.

I still see benefits of TN even at 240Hz. They're much more marginal nowadays (vs the new 240Hz IPS) but none of that all-caps stuff.

you don't understand my point of view
you was talking about the MSI like something a WAYYYY sharper than other fast IPS, but it's not

even if the msi is better (not a WAYYYY), the result is the same -> fast ips ghosting test = shit
you can't do better than a TN

In defense of vlkfree, I agree with vlkfree's point of view too:

TN is definitely better for many things, I agree. One can't diss the TN, but I think RLCSContender should calm down about the IPS-vs-TN wars. Enough.

Nontheless I'm continuing to encourage hobbyist pursuits, regardless of who does them. I welcome more smartphone pursuit data from all forum members, imperfect as they may be.

[vlkfree]

the TN will NOT have an advantage whatsoever in the long run

yes he will, thanks for your participation
it's like you own MSI i don't understand why you are blind

anyway, do what you want (but please, stop lie to people)

[vlkfree]

but instead it will make TN's faster g2g REDUNDANT and counter productive. Therefore TN will NOT HAVE AN ADVANTAGE AT 240HZ. NONE NADA ZILCH. if TWO equally skilled players used the MSI and the fastest TN(omen x25f), because at high framerates, the differences are so negligible(impossible to tell) that the TN will NOT have an advantage whatsoever in the long run.

Disagree, I've already posted details before.

I still see benefits of TN even at 240Hz. They're much more marginal nowadays (vs the new 240Hz IPS) but none of that all-caps stuff.

you don't understand my point of view
you was talking about the MSI like something a WAYYYY sharper than other fast IPS, but it's not

even if the msi is better (not a WAYYYY), the result is the same -> fast ips ghosting test = shit
you can't do better than a TN

In defense of vlkfree, I agree with vlkfree's point of view too:

TN is definitely better for many things, I agree. One can't diss the TN, but I think RLCSContender should calm down about the IPS-vs-TN wars. Enough.

Nontheless I'm continuing to encourage hobbyist pursuits, regardless of who does them. I welcome more smartphone pursuit data from all forum members, imperfect as they may be.

exactly, the real problem is : this guy is flooding the forum and tries to give bad informations to people

fast IPS have many advantages, today we can play videogames in competition with good colors etc.
but if you want the BETTER for competitives games = TN

[RLCSContender*]

well yeah, if say the TN vs IPS at 144hz variable refresh range. Clearly the TN would be noticeably faster since 144hz is 144hz.

we are talking about 240hz here. It's on the league of its own. What you may see as a performance advantage at 144hz variable refresh range, u won't see at 240hz. Do I speak for everyone in that regard? NO, but it's a valid inference to know that for 99.99999% of ppl, if they were to use a 240hz TN vs a 240hz fast IPS, they won't even notice a difference in performances, but what they will see are the bad colors and viewinga angles of the TN.

here's a good example of this. the

Asus TUF VG279qm/VG259qm at 280hz refresh and only has a 25%(just about) compliance rate. In theory, this is supposed to cause massive smearing right(just like most VA monitors at 144hz). but nope, the "smearing" is basically invisible despite the monitor not quick enough for the 280hz refresh.

240hz is the ultimate ****block for TN's advantages over IPS

[Chief Blur Buster]

fast IPS have many advantages, today we can play videogames in competition with good colors etc.
but if you want the BETTER for competitives games = TN

The IPS and TN venn diagram sufficiently overlaps that there's not necessarily a universal "better" anymore. There are below-average 240Hz TN panels worse than the best 240Hz IPS panels.

What I take issue is the holy war of IPS vs TN.