New 360 Hz IPS Gaming Monitor by DELL

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Kyneaz
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Re: New 360 Hz IPS Gaming Monitor by DELL

Post by Kyneaz » 16 May 2020, 04:04

forii wrote:
16 May 2020, 03:56
Kyneaz wrote:
16 May 2020, 03:54
I guess i'm returning my PG258Q to amazon :roll: :D
why lol, imo 240hz is enough, and u will not get 360 fps in any new game, even in cod mw with 3080ti, unless u play old engine games then maybe, but still with 99% gpu load which will give u huge input lag
Yes i like cs go, overwatch, league and some fortnite here and there.

Gideon
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Re: New 360 Hz IPS Gaming Monitor by DELL

Post by Gideon » 16 May 2020, 06:13

This seems a bit like back in the day with 60HZ and 144Hz, people said 144hz doesnt do anything cause most of the time u will play with 6-80 fps anyway. But once u stepped up to 144hz it was nearly impossible to go back, not just in games but for everything u do with the PC. So now im wondering do we benefit as much with 360 compared to 144/240 just by browsing and the overall smoothness of the curser etc or is this just made for gaming differences. If the main proirity is gaming then what the hell do people like me do who play every game AAA --> CS. Even 240HZ seems too much for me why do i need 360?? Will i notice a difference between 144,240,360Hz if im in Odyssey with 90fps. Wouldnt be a 2k 240HZ 25" the sweetspot if you want better motion clarity and more detailed picture quality? Oh boy 360 sounds so nice, if you compare it with 60->144hhz its a worth upgrade ..

Stayle
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Re: New 360 Hz IPS Gaming Monitor by DELL

Post by Stayle » 16 May 2020, 08:05

I think it will surely be smoother (360hz) than 240hz and will be noticeable. Now to think, if it's massive, this question mark will remain.
And having a 360hz entail a well optimized game which have to constant 360hz and a monstruous power rig. I don't see myself having that much fps except in CSGO, maybe thing will change with the new cpu, and 3000 Nvidia series.

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Re: New 360 Hz IPS Gaming Monitor by DELL

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 16 May 2020, 12:03

Stayle wrote:
16 May 2020, 08:05
I think it will surely be smoother (360hz) than 240hz and will be noticeable.
I saw 360 Hz in person at CES 2020. It's still noticeable.

That said, 240Hz-vs-360Hz felt more subtle than 144Hz-vs-240Hz.

However, 60Hz-vs-144Hz and 144Hz-vs-360Hz are the significantly more noticeable upgrade paths.
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Re: New 360 Hz IPS Gaming Monitor by DELL

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 16 May 2020, 12:18

Gideon wrote:
16 May 2020, 06:13
So now im wondering do we benefit as much with 360 compared to 144/240 just by browsing and the overall smoothness of the curser etc or is this just made for gaming differences.
I have some brief hands-on with browsing at 360 Hz on the ASUS monitor, and it's extremely subtle 240Hz-vs-360Hz. However, browser scrolling was dramatic 144Hz-vs-360Hz unlike 144Hz-vs-240Hz or 240Hz-vs-360Hz. Now, 60Hz-vs-360Hz, the browsing is darn near CRT clarity for slow text scrolls (e.g. 300 pixels/sec), you can really read text while scrolling, without needing a strobe backlight. Subjectively, I'd estimate 5x clearer than 60Hz scrolling (GtG limitations bottlenecking it from being a full 6x clearer from 360/60 simple blur math).

I also have hands-on with 480Hz and up (including 1000Hz+) in various settings (prototypes, laboratory experiments, etc). Stuff I formerly thought was unobtainium, that I never thought would happen in my lifetime, is going to happen within our lifetimes, the incredible creativity of many engineers, have pulled this into the realm of being possible. Possible applications (VR, Holodecks, emulation of real life, etc) have emerged on time, after we've retina'd resolution and dynamic range, so Hz is another unturned human-benefits stone that gains a new Moore's Law (every 5-10yr, true Hz doubles).

It is currently remaining consistent with the Blur Busters recommendation of approximate 2x+ Hz recommendation for refresh rate upgrade noticeability. (Different buying habits and budgets may set your threshold at 1.25x or 1.5x, while others want 2.5x). We are about to hit diminishing curves rather hard if Hz does not increase sufficiently geometrically to compensate.

Fortunately, the brick wall isn't till well past 1000Hz+ since we're nowhere near maxing-out all the Vicious Cycle Effect variables yet.
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speancer
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Re: New 360 Hz IPS Gaming Monitor by DELL

Post by speancer » 16 May 2020, 13:01

Holy shit, 360 Hz freaking IPS? That's amazing. I just recently found out about some 240 Hz IPS displays. I tried a 240 Hz TN panel this week (Zowie XL2546) and I just could not stand TN at all. Viewing angles and colours are a nightmare... Immediately went back to my current 165 Hz IPS display! :D I also found a difference between 240 Hz and 165 Hz pretty much unnoticeable in game, but I only briefly tested it, cuz TN panel's picture "quality" was burning my eyes out :lol: Going from 60 Hz to 165 Hz was a gigantic difference, from 165 Hz to 240 Hz not so much, but I guess that's expected?

If I can't reach constant or near 360 fps in game, will that cause some input lag? Should I stay within fps range that my PC can manage? In CSGO I maintain over 240 fps almost all the time I believe, but surely not 360, frames would fluctuate in 200-400~ range.
Display: Acer Predator XB271HU (165 Hz) OS: Windows 10 GPU: GeForce GTX 980Ti @1430/8000 MHz CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4700 MHz MB: MSI Z97 Gaming 5 RAM: 2x4GB DDR3 Kingston HyperX Fury @2400 MHz PSU: Corsair RM850x

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Re: New 360 Hz IPS Gaming Monitor by DELL

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 16 May 2020, 13:17

speancer wrote:
16 May 2020, 13:01
I tried a 240 Hz TN panel this week (Zowie XL2546) and I just could not stand TN at all. Viewing angles and colours are a nightmare... Immediately went back to my current 165 Hz IPS display!
Did you try DyAC ON/OFF?
Did you try the sRGB/Movie Mode setting? (looks better than some worse IPS panels)

The BenQ default colors are intentionally very washed out (because esports players like the shadowboost features of BenQ's default color gamut), but a calibrated ZOWIE can hold its own against some lower-quality IPS panels if recalibrated with a colorimeter. The viewing angles are still problematic, but how many % of your TN annoyance was simply BenQ's intentionally-crappy color default adustment setting?

Sure, a good IPS panel will outclass a TN panel, but I'm often surprised how much I can improve a BenQ ZOWIE panel after some color recalibration work with a Spyder -- but even the sRGB/Movie profiles reveals the better colors. The default colors are esports optimized, given their focus.

Now, the viewing angles aren't fixable though, especially if you sit very close to a TN panel, or off dead-center...
speancer wrote:
16 May 2020, 13:01
If I can't reach constant or near 360 fps in game, will that cause some input lag? Should I stay within fps range that my PC can manage? In CSGO I maintain over 240 fps almost all the time I believe, but surely not 360, frames would fluctuate in 200-400~ range.
The way scanout latency works, is that you have less lag for 100fps at 360Hz than for 100fps at 165Hz, even if absolute latency is identical.

Latency is an advanced topic that Blur Busters hopes to simplify with new articles through the course of this year, that covers the whole gamut (absolute latency factor, scanout latency factor, and latency consistency/gradient/volatility factor) -- the plan is new teachings to assist an industry-wide lag-understanding renaissance.

Also, if you could not tell apart 165Hz IPS 3ms GtG vs 240Hz TN 1ms GtG, are you sure your framerates were maxed out? Or did you have other microstutter weak links (such as 400dpi mouse setting; we now recommend 1600dpi+ at one-quarter sensitivity as a replacement. Since reduced motion blur from high Hz makes mouse microstuttering more visible; and this is even more important if you use ULMB/DyAc).

The Hz stratospheres reveals other system weak links that can bottleneck Hz-benefits. I'm even unhappy that mouse manufacturers aren't making 2000Hz an official mouse poll rate yet, since the increase in display Hz is starting to make poll Hz limitations visible again. If only mouse manufacturers like Logitech would do more frequent tests during ULMB/DyAc/ELMB, since motion blur reduction amplifies mouse microstutters...
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       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
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       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

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speancer
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Re: New 360 Hz IPS Gaming Monitor by DELL

Post by speancer » 16 May 2020, 14:03

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
16 May 2020, 13:17
speancer wrote:
16 May 2020, 13:01
I tried a 240 Hz TN panel this week (Zowie XL2546) and I just could not stand TN at all. Viewing angles and colours are a nightmare... Immediately went back to my current 165 Hz IPS display!
Did you try DyAC ON/OFF?
Did you try the sRGB/Movie Mode setting? (looks better than some worse IPS panels)

The BenQ default colors are intentionally very washed out (because esports players like the shadowboost features of BenQ's default color gamut), but a calibrated ZOWIE can hold its own against some lower-quality IPS panels if recalibrated with a colorimeter. The viewing angles are still problematic, but how many % of your TN annoyance was simply BenQ's intentionally-crappy color default adustment setting?

Sure, a good IPS panel will outclass a TN panel, but I'm often surprised how much I can improve a BenQ ZOWIE panel after some color recalibration work with a Spyder -- but even the sRGB/Movie profiles reveals the better colors. The default colors are esports optimized, given their focus.

Now, the viewing angles aren't fixable though, especially if you sit very close to a TN panel, or off dead-center...
I did, indeed. The default colour setting (FPS mode) for this monitor is outrageously ghastly. No idea how could anyone prefer this crap for any purpose. Personally, I use VibranceGUI to boost colour vibrance in CSGO and in pair with maxed out in-game brightness it does the trick, everything is light, no darkened areas and nice colour saturation. I immediately switched to "Movie" colour preset and adjusted brightness. "Movie" preset looked a lot better than default setting, but still a lot worse than my IPS panel.

Viewing angles are a serious problem, and as you say, there's nothing that can be done about them. I sit pretty close to the screen, also I often look at the screen from an angle, or from my bed. Colours were degrading on the sides even when sitting right in front of the monitor, unacceptable. It did not bother me in CSGO, but it did bother me in normal desktop use.

Concerning DyAc, turns out it does nothing for me in game. In motion blur tests - sure, the difference is there, clearly. While playing, I don't even notice if it's enabled or disabled. I rather focus on my crosshair, so turns out motion blur reduction thingy doesn't help me at all.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
16 May 2020, 13:17
speancer wrote:
16 May 2020, 13:01
If I can't reach constant or near 360 fps in game, will that cause some input lag? Should I stay within fps range that my PC can manage? In CSGO I maintain over 240 fps almost all the time I believe, but surely not 360, frames would fluctuate in 200-400~ range.
The way scanout latency works, is that you have less lag for 100fps at 360Hz than for 100fps at 165Hz, even if absolute latency is identical.
Noted, thanks.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
16 May 2020, 13:17
Also, if you could not tell apart 165Hz IPS 3ms GtG vs 240Hz TN 1ms GtG, are you sure your framerates were maxed out? Or did you have other microstutter weak links (such as 400dpi mouse setting; we now recommend 1600dpi+ at one-quarter sensitivity as a replacement. Since reduced motion blur from high Hz makes mouse microstuttering more visible; and this is even more important if you use ULMB/DyAc).
I'm sure, I have over 240 frames per second 90% of the time in CSGO. I just find the difference pretty much negligible, it's so subtle to me. Upgrading from 60 Hz to 165 Hz was a real game changer, the difference is enormous and I improved a lot. Going from 165 Hz to 240 Hz was nowhere close to it, but perhaps it goes down to my general dislike for XL2546 and brief testing. I can say that I was not impressed by 240 Hz refresh rate, while I was VERY impressed by 165 Hz refresh rate (coming from 60 Hz).

Also, most CSGO pro players use 240 Hz display, and most of them use 400 DPI. I have also used 400 DPI for years, since CS 1.6. It doesn't seem to be any problem to them, it doesn't seem to be any problem to me either, just saying.
Display: Acer Predator XB271HU (165 Hz) OS: Windows 10 GPU: GeForce GTX 980Ti @1430/8000 MHz CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4700 MHz MB: MSI Z97 Gaming 5 RAM: 2x4GB DDR3 Kingston HyperX Fury @2400 MHz PSU: Corsair RM850x

Gideon
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Re: New 360 Hz IPS Gaming Monitor by DELL

Post by Gideon » 16 May 2020, 14:03

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
16 May 2020, 13:17
Did you try DyAC ON/OFF?
Did you try the sRGB/Movie Mode setting? (looks better than some worse IPS panels)

The BenQ default colors are intentionally very washed out (because esports players like the shadowboost features of BenQ's default color gamut), but a calibrated ZOWIE can hold its own against some lower-quality IPS panels if recalibrated with a colorimeter. The viewing angles are still problematic, but how many % of your TN annoyance was simply BenQ's intentionally-crappy color default adustment setting?
Thats actually how it went with my 2411z, was awful at first but with a nice ICC the colors got seriously good even for such an old TN Monitor. Which IPS Panel would you consider good/bad, thats the real question. What defines a panel good/bad for someone who seems to know and understand every single bit thats going on. With the 240 IPS MSI/Asus and maybe Alienware tie you seem to still lean towards BenQ Tn´s despite the viewing angle. Youre so dedicated towards science and each detail and ive yet to see a post you are hyped about the current IPS Monitors. Im looking for a new Monitor and coming from 144hz TN 240 IPS sounds supergood but maybe a newer faster and more accurate BenQ is what i am actually looking for. You """defending""" BenQ adds to that ... hm.

RLCScontender
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Re: New 360 Hz IPS Gaming Monitor by DELL

Post by RLCScontender » 16 May 2020, 14:13

any estimates on the release date of the 360hz AW IPS?

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