LG CX OLED vs good pc monitor input lag?

[jorimt]

You have run testufo with 100Hz, BFI High and VSync On ? If work fine, with smooth motion and MotionBlur reduced, would be great news, demonstrating that the BFI is adaptative ! And the rest of intermediate frequencies maybe working also with Custom Resolution.

I just tried 60Hz, 100Hz, and 120Hz "High" BFI in game mode with 100% brightness using the TestUFO strobe crosstalk test in fullscreen with both "Alien Invasion" and "Street Map," at 960 Pixels/Sec:
https://testufo.com/crosstalk

- 60Hz = no double image, flicker very visible and similar/maybe slightly worse than 60Hz CRT, brightness (previously measured) a little over 100 nits (~115) on full field white (EDIT: mixed this up with an earlier 120Hz reading. See this post for correction: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7161&p=54444#p54466).
- 100Hz = no double image, flicker reduced, brightness increased (haven't made a measurement yet, but it's higher than 100 nits)
- 120Hz = no double image, flicker further reduced, brightness increase similar to 100Hz.

[AddictFPS]

Thanks, good results, 120 nits is the target in website monitor reviews for color calibration. Far from HDR, but with room light controlled, is a good start for OLED+BFI.

I think CRT 60Hz flicker less than OLED BFI due to:

CRT: rolling scan + phosphor brightness decay
OLED: rolling scan + almost instant "to black" response time

But is not worse if all is taked into account, is just different, exchange. CRT has smooth flicker but has the issue of long trail of white object moving fast in black background. OLED reduce the trail, at cost of more hard flicker.

Maybe CRT continue being the best for 60Hz, but at 100/120 maybe OLED will be more convenient, depend of content colors, because increased frequency result in smooth flicker in both screens, but OLED continue with short trail while CRT phosphor decay is the same independently of the frequency.

Appears that at 100Hz BFI work at 200Hz [Black 5ms + Black 5ms + Frame 5ms + Frame 5ms] loop, therefore sound like BFI is adaptive, great news ! hope work also with custom resolutions. Hope soon a firmware fix do [Frame 5ms + Frame 5ms + Black 5ms + Black 5ms] loop.

Hope LG will manufacture soon OLED gaming monitors. OLED is in gaming mobile, tablet, some modern laptop and the first GSync Compatible TV. Current 60Hz OLED monitors without BFI not worth it.

[jorimt]

Thanks, good results, 120 nits is the target in website monitor reviews for color calibration. Far from HDR, but with room light controlled, is a good start for OLED+BFI.

Apologies, but after just now taking complete nits readings, it turns out I had originally mixed up the 120Hz ~10% window readings with 60Hz for the 115 nits number. Though I'll note here that my initial "tests" were performed casually in passing with very little time available, and thus nothing close to "article" level accuracy or reliability (nor where they intended to be).

Corrected readings below...

Test device:
X-Rite i1Display Pro

TV settings:
"Game" picture mode, "OLED Motion Pro" set to "High," "OLED Light" set to "100," "Color Temperature" set to "Warm2"

60Hz:
- ~10% window (white) = ~60 nits
- Full field (white) = ~24 nits

100Hz:
- ~10% window (white) = ~116 nits
- Full field (white) = ~46 nits

120Hz:
- ~10% window (white) = ~116 nits
- Full field (white) = ~46 nits

That said, 60Hz "High" in my opinion still works well enough (the full field nits readings aren't quite real world applicable considering games have varied scene brightness), and I think is still usable for, say, retro side-scrollers, especially for those who already prefer and use strobing on their existing displays.

I'm wondering if rtings didn't do any brightness readings in BFI mode because the nits equivalence isn't 1:1 comparable to non-BFI modes? Not being a professional calibrator myself, I'm not even sure what the limitation or rules are for measuring the nit levels of global BFI for OLED. Finally, this was done with the "Warm2" color temp preset (the closest to 6500k out-of-box), so I'm guessing the cooler color temp settings would have bumped up nits readings by a bit (thought this would obviously result in a less accurate image).

I'll also add here that OLED doesn't work the same as LCD where full field brightness is concerned, and unlike LCD, it has something called "ABL" (auto brightness limiting). Due to this, even non-BFI can only reach the 150 nits range on a full white screen, but it can get much brighter in mixed brightness scenes, so this has to be kept in mind when looking at my BFI readings as well, with the ~10% readings being more indicative of real world usage.

That said, BFI on this TV certaintly isn't the brightest, though I don't expect how it could be with the method used.

Anyway, that should be it for the nits readings. I'd do an input lag comparison of modes, but I don't have the equipment, unless I went the 1000 FPS camera route, which I don't have time or justification for, currently.

If you want me to perform some quick video pursuit tests though (I have a Note 9 with 4k 60 FPS capture capability), just let me know.

[Vega]

Thanks for the tests. My 48CX is in shipping right now. I wish the 120 Hz BFI "high" was a bit brighter, but I guess you cannot win everything.

I had hoped that LG would simply drive the OLED pixels brighter during the BFI "on" scan to compensate some, but it appears they decided not to go down that route. Maybe they figured that even with the pixels having an "off" period, driving them too bright during the "on" period would lead to too much wear...

To me 100 or 120 Hz BFI seems to be really the only thing worth talking about. 60 Hz BFI has terrible flicker and just like 60 Hz CRT; would lead to terrible eye-strain and headaches. But that's just me.

[elexor]

lg oled bfi seems to be about as good as software bfi they don't have fine control over the strobe length because that would require a scan on and a scan off pass going at the same time. all they are doing is 240hz and adding or removing black frames to adjust the persistence only 3 levels of adjustment this way. since the panel can do 240hz why didn't they offer a 240hz 1080p mode for pc gamers? people would kill for that.

[jorimt]

Thanks for the tests. My 48CX is in shipping right now. I wish the 120 Hz BFI "high" was a bit brighter, but I guess you cannot win everything.

I had hoped that LG would simply drive the OLED pixels brighter during the BFI "on" scan to compensate some, but it appears they decided not to go down that route. Maybe they figured that even with the pixels having an "off" period, driving them too bright during the "on" period would lead to too much wear...

There is a "Peak Brightness" setting available during BFI operation in non-game mode (haven't done nits readings for that), but they haven't made it available for game mode (or PC mode) for whatever reason. As you suggested, probably wear issues, especially where gaming usage is concerned.

To me 100 or 120 Hz BFI seems to be really the only thing worth talking about. 60 Hz BFI has terrible flicker and just like 60 Hz CRT; would lead to terrible eye-strain and headaches. But that's just me.

Yeah, I personally have a decent tolerance to flicker, and would still consider using this (solely) for retro side-scrollers myself, but tolerances may vary, etc. 120Hz "High" BFI is much better in this respect.

since the panel can do 240hz why didn't they offer a 240hz 1080p mode for pc gamers? people would kill for that.

Beats me, but being the originators of the tech, they must know something we don't (and/or just don't fully understand or appreciate gamer-mentality quite yet; they have improved though).

[AddictFPS]

Edit this part of my last post, 100Hz loop should do with underclocked 200Hz granularity [ 5ms frame + 5ms frame + 5ms black + 5ms black ] @ unfortunately CX currently with [BFI Lag Mode: On] [ 5ms black + 5ms black + 5ms frame + 5ms frame ]. Owners, send feedback to LG, this expensive TV is supposed to not add any input lag in BFI mode, this fix should be mandatory, especially seeing that LG highlight in marketing low lag gaming. Go go

Notably flicker is part of 60Hz MotionBlur reduced, no matter the tech used, and OLED seems betwen CRT and strobed LCD. Eye allways note brightness variances at 60Hz , and without these variances, full MotionBlur. Only transform 60FPS content to multiples, using framerate amplification free of artifacts, can solve this issue.

CRT currently win in flicker smoothness, but with the comet halley at back, with high brightness can reach around ~500ms to completely go from white to black I tested in my 21" CRT panning space picture with black background and shining stars, and not fun. OLED exchange a bit of flicker to reduce this ugly trail. Current LCD backlight strobing is extremely hard at 60Hz, like CRT at 30Hz according to RealNC, due to On/Off all backlight at same time, instead of doing smooth rolling scan.

OLED reduced MotionBlur without crosstalk + "if is fixed" not added input lag Vs BFI mode off + now with CX up to BFI 120Hz, is a very good rival for current strobed LCD like Viewsonic XG270, the only noticeably annoying issue is low brightness, but XG270 to get the lowest 100/120Hz crosstalk also reach very low nits.

I prefer cool colors for gaming, i also think in this mode you can win some nits. Unfortunately in short term, seems hard to see a big jump, from C9 to CX nothing improved in Rtings brightness numbers Maybe only MicroLED can solve this, including BFI with HDR levels, and at the same time decrease burn-in risk. Hopefully this is made real soon, also for PC Monitors !

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/cx-oled

The CX has decent SDR peak brightness, enough to combat glare in most rooms. It has an Automatic Brightness Limiter (ABL) that significantly dims the screen when large areas get bright, so that's why the 'Peak 100% Window' and 'Sustained 100% Window' tests result in significantly less brightness.

Like the LG C9 OLED, the CX has a Peak Brightness setting, which changes the way the ABL performs. With this setting turned 'Off', most scenes are between 294 to 308 cd/m², and if the entire screen is bright, the brightness is 166 cd/m². Turning this setting to 'High', which is what we tested with, makes most scenes brighter, but large areas are less bright.

The measurements were taken post-calibration in the 'Expert (Dark Room)' Picture Mode, with OLED Light to '100' and Peak Brightness to 'High.' Before calibration, the TV was slightly less bright.

How you have these Brightness/ABL related settings ? In teory, if without BFI can reach 4K 120Hz SDR with 166nits sustained full white, if BFI just insert half time black, should result in ~83nits. Maybe there are one setting to reach a bit more, this ABL is realy annoying. You tested also nits without BFI to see if is like Rtings say ?

since the panel can do 240hz why didn't they offer a 240hz 1080p mode for pc gamers? people would kill for that.

I think is possible add it with firmware update, but:

LG don't fully understand or appreciate gamer-mentality quite yet; they have improved though.

+1 Seeing the input lag error inside BFI loop... not to much gaming aware currently.

If you want me to perform some quick video pursuit tests though (I have a Note 9 with 4k 60 FPS capture capability), just let me know.

If you can upload some day a pursuit 60p video testing 60-100-120Hz would be amazing

[jorimt]

Maybe only MicroLED can solve this, including BFI with HDR levels, and at the same time decrease burn-in risk. Hopefully this is made real soon, also for PC Monitors !

That would be great, but I'm guessing at least 5 more years before this even begins to become viable/available in the mainstream.

That, and we seem to take for granted that OLED, for all it's faults and limitations, is still a proven and now (after many years a) relatively matured tech at this point; first-gen consumer MicroLEDs are bound to have unforeseen issues and limitations as well.

I doubt there will ever be a display panacea, but hope for it along with everyone else nonetheless.

Maybe there are one setting to reach a bit more, this ABL is realy annoying.

No, there aren't any more settings available in BFI game mode beyond what I've tested currently (the peak brightness setting is not available in PC or game mode). And yes, ABL is annoying, but 100% necessary and unavoidable for OLED tech (it was similar with plasma, which had even less peak brightness).

You tested also nits without BFI to see if is like Rtings say ?

I have briefly. It is indeed within the same range as their readings, though their readings are probably more accurate, as they have more capable equipment. I can only get so close with my consumer-level colorimeter and software.

If you can upload some day a pursuit 60p video testing 60-100-120Hz would be amazing

Sure, I'll update here when/if I do.

[deama]

...

Could you do some basic input lag tests with BFI off and BFI on at 120hz? I'd like to know how much it would add at 120hz.

[3dfan]

thanks you all for your tests and info.
so basically. if i understood correctly, please correct me if am am wrong

on the on lg cx 48:

-60hz bfi mode increases input lag compared to 60hz non bfi mode

-60hz bfi reduces peak brightness as low as 60 nits, other higher frequencies up to 100 - 120hz have arround 116nits

-other freqs like 80hz are not available for bfi, so only 60 100 120 are

it seems bfi on oled are still more flicker aggresive than crt at same frequency, but it does not seem anyone have done a side by side comparision to 100% rectify it.