Which hz/dpi setting is best for mice?

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deama
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Which hz/dpi setting is best for mice?

Post by deama » 30 Jul 2020, 10:48

So I recently got a new mouse, "g-wolve's skoll", and out of curiosity, I did some hz/dpi comparison test on paint.
https://imgur.com/a/iQZLvsl

I'm getting kinda wild readings here. 1000hz at highest dpi looks more janky than 125hz at 1st dpi.
Is this just paint being wonky or does this translate into games? And how would it translate into games? I thought 1000hz would make it smoothest.

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AddictFPS
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Re: Which hz/dpi setting is best for mice?

Post by AddictFPS » 31 Jul 2020, 01:03

Sell it :) and buy a good mouse, from SteelSeries, Razer, and others first line high quality mouse manufacturers. Not only sensor matters, firmware is very important to tune well the sensor. Only few manufacturers do a good job with firmware. 1000Hz is the best, when using high quality mouse, without doubt. DPI depend of game resolution, FOV, your personal sensitivity speed. Just make sure that dpi is equal or more than the pixels you move ingame in this inch. If DPI is lower than pixels, then you get mouse stuttering. Use excesive DPI and reduce to much ingame sensitivity to compensate, can cause issues sometimes.

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Re: Which hz/dpi setting is best for mice?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 31 Jul 2020, 01:27

Also, you want sensor dpi headroom. Use a 12000dpi sensor and configure it to 3200dpi.

3200dpi (combined with lowered in-game sensitivity) is currently my preferred setting on modern sensors, during VRR & strobed operation. I switch back to 800dpi or 1600dpi when exiting to Windows, using a DPI-switch button.

That way, mouse slowturns become TestUFO-smooth in games.
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Re: Which hz/dpi setting is best for mice?

Post by axaro1 » 31 Jul 2020, 02:24

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
31 Jul 2020, 01:27
Also, you want sensor dpi headroom. Use a 12000dpi sensor and configure it to 3200dpi.

3200dpi (combined with lowered in-game sensitivity) is currently my preferred setting on modern sensors, during VRR & strobed operation. I switch back to 800dpi or 1600dpi when exiting to Windows, using a DPI-switch button.

That way, mouse slowturns become TestUFO-smooth in games.
Isn't 1600dpi the same as 3200dpi as long as 1600*k=3200*y and k is 2*y?

I heard that there is some kind of smoothing on the 3360 sensor above 3200DPI, is this why you are specifically recommending 3200?
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Re: Which hz/dpi setting is best for mice?

Post by sk1p » 31 Jul 2020, 02:43

Just your own preference. I personally use 400 dpi(Full HD monitor) and 1000hz(Razer Viper), at first for CS GO and just like it to carry the mice all over the big pad during the job. 800-1200 dpi it's enough I think for normal use.

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Re: Which hz/dpi setting is best for mice?

Post by deama » 31 Jul 2020, 08:12

Oh so the mouse is bad? Damn, guess I'll buy something else next time.
Fingers crossed that super 8khz mouse gets a scrollwheel version, then I'd be fine with buying it for £200-300.
Oh and also, I tested this £12 pen mouse I got on the moustester graph, it was at 125hz but compared to the g-wolf skoll 125hz, it's a straight line! A £12 beats a £60 at 125hz, damn, and that pen mouse is wireless too.

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Re: Which hz/dpi setting is best for mice?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 03 Aug 2020, 12:13

axaro1 wrote:
31 Jul 2020, 02:24
Isn't 1600dpi the same as 3200dpi as long as 1600*k=3200*y and k is 2*y?
1600dpi is usually enough -- 3200dpi is better, but it's subtle and you might prefer the mechanics of 1600dpi if you're used to 400dpi.

The way I do is if I double the DPI, I halve the in-game sensitivity setting, so that flick turns behave the same.

What changes differently is that mouse slowturns become smoother. Basically, you move the mouse slowly so that the screen scrolls similar in speed in TestUFO. For example 960 pixels per second is one screenwidth per 2 seconds. Even a bit slower, like 240 or 480 pixels per second (one screenwidth every 4 seconds). Basically, panning/turning/scrolling that is approximately this fast: www.testufo.com/photo

Try mouseturning at this speed at 400dpi, and try again at 800 / 1600 (at half sensitivity) / 3200dpi (at quarter sensitivity).

If you use VRR or strobing at high frame rates on a high-Hz display, higher DPI looks smoother. Depending on how your mouse sensitivity is configured and how far you like moving the mouse, you may see that your mouse feels a bit "grainy" (step-step-step effect) at 400dpi during slow turns/pans/etc.

At 400dpi, slowturn examples:
-- if you're moving mouse half an inch per second, you only get 200 mouse positions per second (essentially 200fps)
-- if you're moving mouse quarter inch per second, you only get 100 mouse postions per second (essentially 100fps)
-- if you're moving mouse eighth inch per seocnd, you only get 50 mouse positions per second (essentially 50fps -- aka 50 unique turn positions per second; 50fps in sideways screenscroll as you mouseturn)

So if your movement in dpi is lower than your frame rate, your turns can start to feel "grainy". This is part of the Vicious Cycle Effect -- as your framerate goes up, refresh rates go up, motion clarity gets better, resolutions go up, the limitations of mouse dpi can then noticeably affect motion fluidity for intermediate-speed turns that are still eye-trackable (like a TestUFO animation).

Strobed mouse slowturns are a great way to test mouse DPI fluidity. This is easier to compare if you're adjusting sensitivity to compensate. At 400dpi at 4x sensitivity, versus 1600dpi at default sensitivity. So that mouseturns are the same speed -- so you can watch behavior improve/degrade for mouse slowturns.

If you're using a giant mousepad and moving a whole foot to turn one screenwidth, then 400dpi is perfectly fine. But not all of us configure like that. Due to Nyquist factors / rounding factors, one wants a dpi factor at least several times movement over screen resolution as of a safety margin.

This is mainly relevant to people who like to eye track while turning/panning/scrolling (something that used to be easier during the CRT days years a couple decades ago)
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Re: Which hz/dpi setting is best for mice?

Post by AddictFPS » 04 Aug 2020, 00:23

Very good explanation ;)

I'm in the group of 90x45cm mouse pad and low sensitivity, 60cm for 360º aprox. CRT 21" 1600x1200 100FPS/Hz RTSS Scanline-Sync FOV 80-90º

For me 450dpi is enought for fast paced FPS games. In slow turns, like far sniper headshots, as you said dpi becomes slow, but crosshair movement also, only moves a few pixels in one direction, that is only few frames changing position, even at 240FPS/Hz most of they are repeated, and there are lower frames changing position than dpi, because both decrease/increase when mouse speed change.

But if monitor resolution is 4K-144Hz or 2560-240Hz, 110º FOV, and player use high sensitivity 20cm for 360º, is radicaly different setup, need increase dpi to avoid pixel skipping.

I also note more reliability using 450dpi in very fast 180º turns 0.1-0.2s, compared to 900dpi with half ingame sensi, or 1800 with quart. Mouse is Razer Deathadder 3G 1000Hz. But maybe is only this old sensor limit, and modern sensors not have any problem to do it. Sensor IPS (inch per second) and acceleration has improved much since DA 3G days, but at the moment i not need more dpi.

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Re: Which hz/dpi setting is best for mice?

Post by Stitch7 » 05 Aug 2020, 18:41

I have tried 6/11 Windows sens 400/800CPI at 100 and 200 and 250fps stable in rocket league. I have a omen x25f and was not able to tell the difference.

I'm not able to tell apart raw input on vs off most of the time since I disabled all acceleration in windows with registry tweaks and the enhance pointer precision option is also turned off.

I read on here once that overclocking your monitor padt 240Hz did not show a smoother mouse.
So to confirm I'll ask again.

If you have a 1000/500Hz mouse and are playing at 250fps, would a monitor underclock from a 280Hz to a non-decimal ie 250Hz make a difference in perceived smoothness?

I hope this hasn't been asked too many times...

Edit:Rephrased my question to make more sense.

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Re: Which hz/dpi setting is best for mice?

Post by AddictFPS » 06 Aug 2020, 02:29

I also used allways registry fix, 6/11, and enhanced pointer off. This is a must be in a gaming PC ;)

VSync On, with preference of VSync Low-Lag modes like RTSS Scanline Sync. Allways FPS/Hz at the same max. rate, rock solid.

Also select a frequency that is not infinite float when you divide the mouse Polling Rate / Refreshrate. In order to maintain a chain where fit all math perfectly, at least when mouse move fast enought to maintain sustained the max. polling rate.

Entire:

1000 / 250 = 4
1000 / 200 = 5
1000 / 125 = 8
1000 / 100 = 10

Finite float:

1000 / 160 = 6.25
1000 / 80 = 12.5

I try avoid numbers like 60, 119, 120, 280Hz, can't fit exactly, therefore some random readjustment is done to maintain sync, i feel finite numbers a bit more smooth:

1000 / 280 = 3.571428*
1000 / 120 = 8.333333*
1000 / 119 = 8.4033361...
1000 / 60 = 16.666666*

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