Native (plug-and-play) 8000hz mouse

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1000WATT
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Re: Native (plug-and-play) 8000hz mouse

Post by 1000WATT » 30 Aug 2020, 22:01

RonsonPL wrote:
30 Aug 2020, 19:02
OBS can easily record 1080 120. In Premiere, slow down video in half. Upload to YouTube.
I often do not clearly state my thoughts. google translate is far from perfect. And in addition to the translator, I myself am mistaken. Do not take me seriously.

igher
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Re: Native (plug-and-play) 8000hz mouse

Post by igher » 01 Sep 2020, 05:35

how the mouse work with the limitation of hZ of the USB ports ?
sorry for my ignorance :D

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Native (plug-and-play) 8000hz mouse

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 01 Sep 2020, 15:07

igher wrote:
01 Sep 2020, 05:35
how the mouse work with the limitation of hZ of the USB ports ?
sorry for my ignorance :D
Modern USB ports aren't limited to 1000 Hz.

Only older ports & older drivers are...

There are some issues with the 8000 Hz getting jittered around because not all computers can do 0.125ms granularity polls, but modern computers now are.
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Darktalon
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Re: Native (plug-and-play) 8000hz mouse

Post by Darktalon » 27 Sep 2020, 16:25

Yikes, this is really cool, but 1000 hz already has many CPU issues in certain programs and games. 8000 hz is going to destroy FPS and stall the system.

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RealNC
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Re: Native (plug-and-play) 8000hz mouse

Post by RealNC » 28 Sep 2020, 07:35

Darktalon wrote:
27 Sep 2020, 16:25
Yikes, this is really cool, but 1000 hz already has many CPU issues in certain programs and games. 8000 hz is going to destroy FPS and stall the system.
8000Hz isn't much for a CPU, actually. You can measure what difference there is between 125Hz and 1000Hz today and extrapolate to 8000Hz. You probably won't find much if any difference between 125 and 1000. So I suspect 8000Hz will have less impact than most people think it will.

It's easy to measure too, as you don't actually need to move the mouse at all. Some people mistakenly think that for polling to happen, mouse movement is required. This is not true. Mouse movement does not result in any increase in polling overhead whatsoever. That's the whole point of polling; it is used to detect mouse movement, not the other way around. So just run benchmarks to see differences between 125Hz, 250Hz, 500Hz, 1000Hz, and if you have the gear, 2000Hz. The only thing you need to do is change the polling rate between benchmark runs. No need to even touch the mouse itself.

However, quality of implementation of the software components involved is also important. Even if the CPU is perfectly able to do 8000Hz polling, the software chain (from USB driver to mouse driver to OS layer) must not introduce bottlenecks (like excessive locking or memory access.)
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Darktalon
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Re: Native (plug-and-play) 8000hz mouse

Post by Darktalon » 29 Sep 2020, 05:22

Open CPU-Z, select the window and shake it really fast at 1000hz compared to 500hz or 100hz. Now imagine how it will react to 8000hz :)

Depending on how long I shake it, it can still be moving for 3+ seconds after I let go.

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Re: Native (plug-and-play) 8000hz mouse

Post by RealNC » 30 Sep 2020, 16:35

Darktalon wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 05:22
Open CPU-Z, select the window and shake it really fast at 1000hz compared to 500hz or 100hz. Now imagine how it will react to 8000hz :)

Depending on how long I shake it, it can still be moving for 3+ seconds after I let go.
Uh, that's not how it works :P
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Re: Native (plug-and-play) 8000hz mouse

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 01 Oct 2020, 10:50

Darktalon wrote:
27 Sep 2020, 16:25
Yikes, this is really cool, but 1000 hz already has many CPU issues in certain programs and games. 8000 hz is going to destroy FPS and stall the system.
I can now announce that I have a prototype Razer 8000 Hz mouse on my desk.

It works. Many games still keep up. And it is better than 1000Hz, indeed.

The great news is that 8000 Hz it isn't a problem with many games. It does push the limits of some software that have inefficient mouse events, but is a non-issue with others.

The planned mouse software has Hz-switching profile capability so you can choose your own Hz for different games. Some games clearly benefit from 8000 Hz, while others may need fine-tuning.

Some stuff like dragging a Microsoft Excel 2010 window lags severely, simply because of inefficient redraw code. But you can just use the Hz switching features of the mouse drivers and use 8000 Hz only when steam.exe launches or when specific game executables launches, if one or few of your library games behaves badly with 8000 Hz.

Yes, timings can jitter a bit in MouseTester, but the 8x overkill over 1000Hz means timing jitter only reduces it a bit (e.g. 6x to 7x better than 1000Hz). The overkill of an upgrade (almost one order magnitude jump in Hz) compensates quite a huge deal.

Yes, some older desktops (Windows 7, crud-filled old Windows 10 systems, etc) can't keep up, but even a 4-year-old gaming laptop manages to keep up at full 8000 Hz in many games. Yes, some games are incompatible. Yes, some older/buggy game software slows down. Yes, other games clearly benefit. Yes, you may need to upgrade your system to have good 8000 Hz if you're still using a seven year old i7 with a crappy USB controller.

In other words, progress!
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Re: Native (plug-and-play) 8000hz mouse

Post by speancer » 01 Oct 2020, 12:47

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
01 Oct 2020, 10:50
I can now announce that I have a prototype Razer 8000 Hz mouse on my desk.
I wonder why there's such a gap in case of mouse polling rate. I mean, most things get progressively better over time, so why with mice there's 1000 Hz and suddenly everyone's talking about 8000 Hz? :P Looks like a pretty big step up, or perhaps I missed something? I do recall some news about 2000 Hz polling rate on some Corsair mouse once I think, but not much other than that.

Would you say my i7 4790K @ 4.7 GHz (it's not so far of being 7 years old!) can handle 8000 Hz polling rate? :) I still don't see a reason to upgrade, CS:GO runs great, I rather rarely play other games.

Also, do you think CS:GO will take advantage of 8000 Hz polling, or perhaps there could be some technical obstacles?
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Re: Native (plug-and-play) 8000hz mouse

Post by RonsonPL » 01 Oct 2020, 16:28

@Chief Blur Buster

Please tell us already if it's possible to get the same motion clarity as when using a joypad or keyboard to make the camera pan/rotation. :)
I mean at ~120Hz

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