Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

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Glado
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by Glado » 04 Oct 2020, 15:20

Yesterday I decided to try to test the Pg259qn in a more structured way. While I don’t have the equipment or scientific acumen of a lot of the people here, I wanted to figure out a few things I could concretely test that could tell me if the input lag levels of the Pg259qn were at least at unacceptable levels for me.

To do this I based it off the one game I know the most about which is rocket league. I thought of a couple of very specific maneuvers that require fraction of a second directional inputs to be successful. For anyone who knows the game I used the fast diagonal flip cancel kickoff as the basis for my testing because it requires the fastest input of anything in the game that I can think of (I then tried a couple other mechanics as well).

I compared whether I could complete these mechanics on the Pg259qn monitor and then would test the same thing on my 144hz dell monitor.

As I started testing, I first tried gsync off, vsync off, and low latency mode to ultra. To my surprise I did not get the extreme levels of lag that I had gotten the first time I used the monitor. This was a very pleasant surprise. However, to my dismay I am literally unable to complete the diagonal flip cancel mechanic at all on the Pg259qn. I then swapped back to my 144hz monitor and I am able to get the mechanic to work relatively consistently. I tried to get the mechanic to work for about an hour on the Pg259qn and I never pulled it off once. This was a major point of concern for me because it is a concrete Illustration that, when I use this monitor, my inputs are not being received quickly enough to complete important moves to play my primary game.

I then tested a series of other monitor modes toggling gsync on, vsync on, low latency mode to other modes, the monitor to other graphics modes, and many other changes. Not a single change I made ever allowed me to complete this move a single time on the new monitor.

I then started to do more simple mechanics that still required sub 1 second inputs but not the fractional inputs required before. For anyone who plays the game I tested half flipping. Half flipping is not a complex mechanic for anyone who has played this game consistently and should be very easy to do regardless of what monitor is used.

To my dismay completing half flips while possible becomes incredibly difficult on the Pg259qn with my car hardly ever fully canceling its flip. This felt very similar to half flipping on my decade old tv hooked up to my Xbox. This was extremely disappointing. I did not bother testing this on my 144hz to compare because I have done this mechanic every day for years and was honsestly a little exasperated by this point.

I have also play tested the monitor in other fps based games as well, but I a will openly admit I am nowhere near good enough at any fps games to use my experience in those games as a basis for any form of true testing of the monitor. So my testing is obviously very limited to one specific game and obviously is not perfectly scientific by any stretch of the imagination. But based on my experience in rocket league the amount of input lag I am experiencing compared to my 144hz monitor is completely unacceptable and would render me completely uncompetitive within my game of choice.

I purchased an extremely high quality display port cable that I am going to use for testing the Pg259qn one more time today (just to rule out the cable being the issue). Sadly if I don’t at least see input lag improve enough to complete the mechanics I have listed above I will be forced to return this monitor and repurchase the vg259qm.

Glado
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by Glado » 04 Oct 2020, 15:55

Well I am greatly saddened to report for whatever reason the monitor will not turn on with the high quality 1.4 8k @ 60hz DisplayPort cable I purchased. The cable works flawlessly with every other display port around my house. DisplayPort cables are backwards compatible, so the only explanation I can think of is if the company lied and sent me a cable that is not a 1.4 cable so it is not capable of driving the ASUS Pg259qn. However, that explanation would require me to give this monitor a benefit of the doubt that I am less than inclined to give it at this point.

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jorimt
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by jorimt » 04 Oct 2020, 16:02

Glado wrote:
04 Oct 2020, 15:20
Half flipping is not a complex mechanic for anyone who has played this game consistently and should be very easy to do regardless of what monitor is used.
Not saying this is the case on this monitor, or that it applies to your experience specifically, but something I noticed no one mentioning, is that a drastic enough switch (say, from 144Hz to 360Hz) can potentially create an input lag discrepancy where responsiveness is different enough, that for people who derive their skill primarily from long-term conditioning, things may actually feel worse (e.g. it's so hot it's cold phenomena, etc).

For someone who relies on conditioning (again not singling you out, or claiming you are one of them), lower input lag and more responsiveness may not always result in a superior "feel."

For instance, when I was performing my original G-SYNC 101 input lag testing, the 2000+ FPS scenario (@240Hz) in my CS:GO tests was so responsive to my input, I actually had a harder time controlling my mouse (timing clicks) than I did with higher latency scenarios. It honestly felt worse, yet produced the lowest lag numbers. My best guess is it was because I had become conditioned to "anticipating" the display's response to my inputs, and this scenario wasn't giving me the time to; it just happened the moment (or closer to the moment) I did it.

Again, not necessarily the case here, but just something to consider. It would also help explain why some don't notice this, as they might be less reliant on conditioning, and are instead more adaptive to the given responsiveness of varying configurations.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: Acer Predator XB271HU / LG 48CX OS: Windows 10 MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 UG RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

Glado
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Joined: 28 Jul 2020, 11:05

Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by Glado » 04 Oct 2020, 17:32

jorimt wrote:
04 Oct 2020, 16:02
Glado wrote:
04 Oct 2020, 15:20
Half flipping is not a complex mechanic for anyone who has played this game consistently and should be very easy to do regardless of what monitor is used.
Not saying this is the case on this monitor, or that it applies to your experience specifically, but something I noticed no one mentioning, is that a drastic enough switch (say, from 144Hz to 360Hz) can potentially create an input lag discrepancy where responsiveness is different enough, that for people who derive their skill primarily from long-term conditioning, things may actually feel worse (e.g. it's so hot it's cold phenomena, etc).

For someone who relies on conditioning (again not singling you out, or claiming you are one of them), lower input lag and more responsiveness may not always result in a superior "feel."

For instance, when I was performing my original G-SYNC 101 input lag testing, the 2000+ FPS scenario (@240Hz) in my CS:GO tests was so responsive to my input, I actually had a harder time controlling my mouse (timing clicks) than I did with higher latency scenarios. It honestly felt worse, yet produced the lowest lag numbers. My best guess is it was because I had become conditioned to "anticipating" the display's response to my inputs, and this scenario wasn't giving me the time to; it just happened the moment (or closer to the moment) I did it.

Again, not necessarily the case here, but just something to consider. It would also help explain why some don't notice this, as they might be less reliant on conditioning, and are instead more adaptive to the given responsiveness of varying configurations.
I agree with everything you are saying 100% and am not going to ever discount that that could have been a factor affecting me. I think anyone reading my posts should keep exactly what you said in mind because nothing I have done is truly scientific or proves anything. Anyone else could pick up this monitor and love it and that would not surprise me.

However the one thing that makes me think this is input lag related is because I had the vg259qm for the entire month fo august and returned it with 5 days left on my return period when I heard the pg259qn was announced. I loved the 280hz monitor and can say definitively there was no period where I had to learn mechanics. It made me better at every single thing in the game instantly. I absolutely loved that monitor from the first moment I used it and it made me a better player.

One thing I think could be a considerable factor is for rocket league you use a controller and everything is done in physics based movements. Whereas, in an fps game a more sensitive monitor could probably substantially throw off your aim by a substantial margin until you adjust, like you are saying (me being horrible atr shooters id never hit a single shot anyways so it wouldnt affect me). The fact that with an hour of training I couldnt hit a mechanic that is 100% reliant on quick inputs and I was able to hit it dramatically more consistently on the 280hz monitor is why I have concerns about input lag on the 360hz.

Like I said, I am in agreement with you and I have no way of proving that that is not true, since I do not have any input lag measuring technology to definitively prove what I am saying. I even considered putting a portion talking about exactly what you said in my original post, but felt my post was already getting annoyingly long and didn't want to bog the post down even more. Just figured id share my reasoning behind why I think it is input lag related even though I 100% still consider the possibility you are talking about to be a potential factor!

Alpha
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Joined: 09 Jul 2020, 17:58

Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by Alpha » 04 Oct 2020, 18:13

Glado wrote:
04 Oct 2020, 17:32
jorimt wrote:
04 Oct 2020, 16:02
Glado wrote:
04 Oct 2020, 15:20
Half flipping is not a complex mechanic for anyone who has played this game consistently and should be very easy to do regardless of what monitor is used.
Not saying this is the case on this monitor, or that it applies to your experience specifically, but something I noticed no one mentioning, is that a drastic enough switch (say, from 144Hz to 360Hz) can potentially create an input lag discrepancy where responsiveness is different enough, that for people who derive their skill primarily from long-term conditioning, things may actually feel worse (e.g. it's so hot it's cold phenomena, etc).

For someone who relies on conditioning (again not singling you out, or claiming you are one of them), lower input lag and more responsiveness may not always result in a superior "feel."

For instance, when I was performing my original G-SYNC 101 input lag testing, the 2000+ FPS scenario (@240Hz) in my CS:GO tests was so responsive to my input, I actually had a harder time controlling my mouse (timing clicks) than I did with higher latency scenarios. It honestly felt worse, yet produced the lowest lag numbers. My best guess is it was because I had become conditioned to "anticipating" the display's response to my inputs, and this scenario wasn't giving me the time to; it just happened the moment (or closer to the moment) I did it.

Again, not necessarily the case here, but just something to consider. It would also help explain why some don't notice this, as they might be less reliant on conditioning, and are instead more adaptive to the given responsiveness of varying configurations.
I agree with everything you are saying 100% and am not going to ever discount that that could have been a factor affecting me. I think anyone reading my posts should keep exactly what you said in mind because nothing I have done is truly scientific or proves anything. Anyone else could pick up this monitor and love it and that would not surprise me.

However the one thing that makes me think this is input lag related is because I had the vg259qm for the entire month fo august and returned it with 5 days left on my return period when I heard the pg259qn was announced. I loved the 280hz monitor and can say definitively there was no period where I had to learn mechanics. It made me better at every single thing in the game instantly. I absolutely loved that monitor from the first moment I used it and it made me a better player.

One thing I think could be a considerable factor is for rocket league you use a controller and everything is done in physics based movements. Whereas, in an fps game a more sensitive monitor could probably substantially throw off your aim by a substantial margin until you adjust, like you are saying (me being horrible atr shooters id never hit a single shot anyways so it wouldnt affect me). The fact that with an hour of training I couldnt hit a mechanic that is 100% reliant on quick inputs and I was able to hit it dramatically more consistently on the 280hz monitor is why I have concerns about input lag on the 360hz.

Like I said, I am in agreement with you and I have no way of proving that that is not true, since I do not have any input lag measuring technology to definitively prove what I am saying. I even considered putting a portion talking about exactly what you said in my original post, but felt my post was already getting annoyingly long and didn't want to bog the post down even more. Just figured id share my reasoning behind why I think it is input lag related even though I 100% still consider the possibility you are talking about to be a potential factor!
Give this a shot. 3 times on the PG259QN followed by your other monitor. https://humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

What keyboard and mouse based game do you play that you think you’d tell a difference? What DPI do you use? I had to increase mine. Tested everything else. Went and test aimlabs on full AMD system and I shit you not, do not get the mouse stutter thing on launch but so help me god on the Omen X 25F targets getting hit where not registering. Watching my daughter who’s extremely fast but a bit behind me, no issues. So basically I’ve been strutting around like a peacock all day because my daughter thinks I’m too fast for the game. :D :D My problems are 100% AMDs.

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jorimt
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by jorimt » 04 Oct 2020, 19:29

Glado wrote:
04 Oct 2020, 17:32
I even considered putting a portion talking about exactly what you said in my original post, but felt my post was already getting annoyingly long and didn't want to bog the post down even more. Just figured id share my reasoning behind why I think it is input lag related even though I 100% still consider the possibility you are talking about to be a potential factor!
Yup, just throwing it out there as one among many potential factors.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: Acer Predator XB271HU / LG 48CX OS: Windows 10 MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 UG RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

Glado
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by Glado » 04 Oct 2020, 19:31

Alright so I had a bit of a breakthrough. I tried getting the new DisplayPort cable to work because I thought it was bizarre that it was not even turning on. I find that the lip they have at the bottom of the monitor makes it extremely difficult to plug in the cables sometimes. I’m going to sound like an idiot, but the cable was only partially plugged in. When I pushed the DisplayPort cable until I thought it was going to break , the cable finally fully went in the monitor popped to life.

After this I went into game and tested those same mechanics I described before. To my surprise using this new cable things were working flawlessly. I finally have that same super responsive feeling I had with the vg259qm again. I would say I wasn’t just able to do the mechanics but a lot of them felt easier than they have ever felt before.

This leads me to believe that the DisplayPort cable that ASUS provided me had an issue and was causing the lag problems I was seeing before? I am very glad I decided I was going to give the monitor one more shot with the new display cable because the difference between what I saw before and what I see now is literally night and day.

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speancer
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by speancer » 05 Oct 2020, 03:00

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
02 Oct 2020, 22:36
For example, I now also have the prototype 8000 Hz Razer mouse, and it's helping 360 Hz mucho.
How is 8000 Hz polling rate helping with 360 Hz display experience?
Tested displays: Zowie XL2546KASUS VG259QMASUS VG279QMOmen X 25fZowie XL2546 MSI MAG251RXAcer Predator XB273 XAcer Predator XB271HU
Displays to test: ASUS VG258QM • Zowie XL2540K (currently testing)

Alpha
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by Alpha » 05 Oct 2020, 05:51

Glado wrote:
04 Oct 2020, 19:31
Alright so I had a bit of a breakthrough. I tried getting the new DisplayPort cable to work because I thought it was bizarre that it was not even turning on. I find that the lip they have at the bottom of the monitor makes it extremely difficult to plug in the cables sometimes. I’m going to sound like an idiot, but the cable was only partially plugged in. When I pushed the DisplayPort cable until I thought it was going to break , the cable finally fully went in the monitor popped to life.

After this I went into game and tested those same mechanics I described before. To my surprise using this new cable things were working flawlessly. I finally have that same super responsive feeling I had with the vg259qm again. I would say I wasn’t just able to do the mechanics but a lot of them felt easier than they have ever felt before.

This leads me to believe that the DisplayPort cable that ASUS provided me had an issue and was causing the lag problems I was seeing before? I am very glad I decided I was going to give the monitor one more shot with the new display cable because the difference between what I saw before and what I see now is literally night and day.
That is amazing and smart to go after that display port cable. You should definitely reach out to Asus. The quality appearance of the cable I am quite surprised with as it appears top notch. What cable did you go with? Feel free to DM if you don't want to share openly. Not a fan of the lip myself. Feels like it puts strain on the monitors inputs\outputs.

Did you have a chance to try any mouse and keyboard test? Any chance you would try humanbenchmark test with old and new cable and with your old monitor if its not an inconvenience please? I wouldn't be surprised if they both suddenly worked as expected but also curious what your result was with old cable mostly. I need too try this after rolling back bios.

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axaro1
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by axaro1 » 05 Oct 2020, 06:44

Glado wrote:
04 Oct 2020, 19:31
Alright so I had a bit of a breakthrough. I tried getting the new DisplayPort cable to work because I thought it was bizarre that it was not even turning on. I find that the lip they have at the bottom of the monitor makes it extremely difficult to plug in the cables sometimes. I’m going to sound like an idiot, but the cable was only partially plugged in. When I pushed the DisplayPort cable until I thought it was going to break , the cable finally fully went in the monitor popped to life.

After this I went into game and tested those same mechanics I described before. To my surprise using this new cable things were working flawlessly. I finally have that same super responsive feeling I had with the vg259qm again. I would say I wasn’t just able to do the mechanics but a lot of them felt easier than they have ever felt before.

This leads me to believe that the DisplayPort cable that ASUS provided me had an issue and was causing the lag problems I was seeing before? I am very glad I decided I was going to give the monitor one more shot with the new display cable because the difference between what I saw before and what I see now is literally night and day.
The cable coming with the VG259QM was kinda cheap, when I was using a DP 1.4 certified cable my monitor was displaying the 2 different DP modes (whether 1.2+HDR or 1.1), now that I'm back to the original cable (since I ended up breaking the 1.4) it doesn't even make me click on the "Displayport Ver." setting.
Alpha wrote:
05 Oct 2020, 05:51
That is amazing and smart to go after that display port cable. You should definitely reach out to Asus. The quality appearance of the cable I am quite surprised with as it appears top notch.
As a general rule when purchasing DP I generally aim for +1/2 generations newer DP cables compared to the monitor standard (For example 1.3 or 1.4 for 1.2/1.2a ports) and most importantly I double check on https://www.displayport.org/product-cat ... -adaptors/ to make sure that it's actually VeSa certified

Another very important thing to keep in mind is to buy a short DP cable, preferably 1.8m or less. If it's 4-5m long there's high chance that you won't be able to reach enough bandwith, there are multiple reports of people struggling to run 1440p 144hz on 4/5m long DP cables which were solved by buying shorter cables (or eventually messing with PreEmphasis and Voltage swing, PreEmphasis to create micro packet overshoot to balance signal attenuation, Voltage Swing to overvolt the Displayport link, but these are just workaround to the cable length issue).

In some cases even flickering can be solved by using a VeSa certified cable.
Monitor producers have no interest in spending money to get the VeSa certifications.
XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN (MAIN) | VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS

R5 3600 4.35ghz 1.237V AVX stable | 3600mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR]https://i.imgur.com/R5Rm34i.png | 5700XT Gaming OC 2059mhz 1121mv[/color]

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