Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

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CortexFPS
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by CortexFPS » 09 Apr 2021, 20:22

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 17:04
Discorz wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 06:37
Is the difference visually noticeable between 1000 and 2000+Hz polling rate on 240Hz monitor? Is it smoother?
I know I can't tell the difference down to 500Hz, 250 starts to get slightly choppy and 125 in very noticeable.
It depends on the frame rate of your game, the refresh rate you've configured, how fast-GtG your monitor is, which sync/display technology you use (VSYNC ON, VSYNC OFF, G-SYNC, ULMB/DyAc/strobing).

But yes, with some combinations of settings, 500Hz-vs-1000Hz-vs-2000Hz becomes visible to me.

Even 2000Hz vs 8000Hz is visible at 240Hz, albiet only marginally (1000Hz-vs-2000Hz is the biggest difference), but only if you're not gimping your mouse to 400dpi.

If you're playing low frame rate VSYNC OFF, the difference is not generally noticeable.

General rules of thumb that lifts the blurfog/stutterfog hiding low-poll mouse microstutters:
- Displays at higher refresh rates (e.g. 360Hz-vs-240Hz-vs-144Hz)
- Enabling tech that smooth stutter (e.g. enable VRR or VSYNC ON framerate=Hz)
- Enabling tech that reduce blur (e.g. ULMB, DyAc, etc)
- Higher DPI setting, low in-game sensitivity (Mouse settings, 1600dpi instead of 400dpi)

If you're a 400dpi or 800dpi mouse user you won't notice as much. But if you use 1600dpi or 3200dpi, then mouse 500Hz vs 1000Hz becomes much more visible. Many gamers who use Razer 8KHz Vipers now like the look-feel of 1600dpi or 3200dpi in certain newer-engine games that supports high-DPI very well. High dpi + low in-game sens = really plays better at higher poll rate. Many gamers report high-DPI feels fine in games like Valorant, unlike say CS:GO. It depends on the game engine if subpixel dpi is properly preserved (e.g. moving 1dpi = turning visibly subpixel) in the game engine's processing. Configuring 400dpi means a slow 1/8" mouse movement over one second can yield only 50 positions (50 frames per second). L

Low dpi (400dpi) can sometimes sabotage frame rate of slow mouseturns in your game engine, into a steppy-steppy stutter (e.g. scanning with your scope). That's why lots of gamers see improvements of "high DPI + low sens" during scope scanning (sometimes sensitivity is separately adjustable for scope scanning than for mouseturns). When we're dealing with 360Hz monitors, high DPI keeps mouse slowturns very TestUFO-smooth rather than grainy (steppy-steppy effect).

One problem is many game engines feel odd (bad smoothing effects) during high-DPI-low-sens operations, so YMMV. However, more and more esports are beginning to standardize on 1600dpi+ (At least for newer games) rather than the usual 800dpi standard. This is where 500Hz-vs-1000Hz-vs-2000Hz becomes even more important.

That said, 1000Hz-vs-2000Hz mouse poll on a 360Hz monitor is more noticeable than 500Hz-vs-1000Hz mouse poll on a 144Hz monitor.

I usually keep my mouse at 8000 Hz all the time, except configure Razer to automatically lower DPI in games that choke at 8000Hz (some games work better at 2000 Hz or 4000 Hz). Razer Synapse utility can automatically change DPI.

Remember, to preserve your muscle memory during poll rate changes (Windows cursor moving exactly the same speed at 500Hz, 1000Hz, 2000Hz, 4000Hz, 8000Hz), you must configure:

Image

When you do this, changing poll rate of your Razer 8KHz doesn't change mouse pointer speed in Windows. (Only changing DPI does). To preserve your muscle memory in all apps you can divide sensitivity every time you double DPI. This will help preserve your mouseturn speed (1600dpi mouseturns at same velocity as 400dpi or 800dpi), provided the game engine is capable of proper subpixel mouse dpi mathematics. (subpixel turns just look like motion antialasing). Some older engines (e.g. CS:GO) seems to have some potential issues with ultra-high-DPI operation, but is not an issue in others.

The winning test is that a good aimtrainer should feels the same at 3200dpi at 1/8 sensitivity feels identical to 400dpi at full sensitivity. (Or whatever sensitivity setting you use, divide it by exactly 2 every time you double DPI). This is the hallmark of a good mouse + good drivers + good software. No odd smoothing/interpolation if done well (remember: games can add smoothing/coarsenesses by accidental math rounding effects, even if drivers don't do smoothing). The bonus is that your mouse slowturns feels TestUFO-smooth TestUFO-precise, rather than grainy steppy-steppy feeling. So high DPI low sens in a good subpixel-dpi-precise game engine means you can have your cake (precise fast flicks) and eat it too (precise slow scans).

Obviously, your mileage may vary -- 800dpi still feels good in CS:GO for many esports and may be having some math rounding errors at high-DPI-ultralow-sens operation. Very old engines (source engine) were designed for 1000 Hz mice that were only available up to 1600dpi or barely beyond.

Now with mice supporting 8000 Hz and 20000dpi, it is beyond the mathematics precisions of some game engines, probably even including CS:GO which allegedly/reportedly doesn't feel good at 6400dpi. But some newer game engines do subpixel dpi just fine.

In proper newer modern game engine, moving 1/8" can already properly smoothly do 360 frames per second of 0.1 pixel movements (antialaised subpixel movements), meaning you generated 360 unique frames for a slow 36 pixels/sec scope scanning movement! Valorant can do that today, for your ultraslow precise scope scanning from a sniper position. edpi "precision" is not necessarily an integer -- it's floating point subpixel -- in some newer games, unlike older games.

The ancient 800dpi standard ideally should slowly become obsolete in game engines of the future, with proper subpixel edpi processing mathematics. More games need to have 800dpi and 6400dpi(1/8sensitivity) feeling identical speed & identical feel for fast flick movements, while giving untold benefits for slow movements. This is also mandated in the proposed High Definition Mouse Extensions API specification that I'm currently shopping around to mouse manufacturers.

Yes, yes, 400dpi or 800dpi should still be a choice (some esports athletes like the steppy-steppy slow movements to filter out handshake), but we should not accidentally hamstring 6400dpi-fractional-sens with integer edpi instead of subpixel edpi!!! More numbers of newer games should be able to properly do 0.1 or even 0.01 pixel mouse movements per frame (antialaised subpixel motion), if users want that. The tech is here today already in newer software.

My point, is that low-dpi is shooting yourself in your feet mouse-motion-quality-wise (sabotaging the fluidity/framerate of slow mouse turns) but I understand some game engines don't do subpixel dpi well (CS:GO feels odd at 6400dpi+8000Hz operation for example -- but that's not the mouse's fault). That's just life. There are situations where 400dpi sometimes make 1000Hz-vs-8000Hz worthless, while 3200dpi makes 1000Hz-vs-8000Hz night-and-day (especially for 360Hz). You gotta match game engine+mouse+drivers+settings well.
hello chief, I had read a similar post from you in another section I think, and it was a pearl, it changed my gameplay, thank you for that. one question, counter strike works best at 400 dpi, due to its game engine, but apex legends instead? also having the same game engine works better with 400 dpi?
In use: 27GR95QE-B | XG2431
Used before: PG248QP | XL2566K | XL2546K/S | XV252QF | AW2521H | VG259QM | PG279QM | AW2721D
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PC: 5800x3D; RTX 3080

dANii
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by dANii » 10 Apr 2021, 09:29

Hey chief, I am currently using this monitor but I feel that my old 2546 with dyac feels a lot smoother and more responsive. Am I doing anything wrong? I tried limiting the hz to 240 and enable ULMB, but it gets way too dark. Is there anything I can do to make this feel as responsive as my old tn with dyac?

alexander1986
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by alexander1986 » 10 Apr 2021, 14:57

dANii wrote:
10 Apr 2021, 09:29
Hey chief, I am currently using this monitor but I feel that my old 2546 with dyac feels a lot smoother and more responsive. Am I doing anything wrong? I tried limiting the hz to 240 and enable ULMB, but it gets way too dark. Is there anything I can do to make this feel as responsive as my old tn with dyac?

if I can ask random question do you maybe play any football games like FIFA or PES ?

if so I would please like to know how you experience motion blur/overdrive/crosstalk on this monitor, when camera is moving fast from left to right etc during match?

most thing im interested in is 360 hz no ULMB vs 240 hz ULMB vs 144 hz ULMB, would be very appreciated !

dANii
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by dANii » 10 Apr 2021, 15:09

alexander1986 wrote:
10 Apr 2021, 14:57
dANii wrote:
10 Apr 2021, 09:29
Hey chief, I am currently using this monitor but I feel that my old 2546 with dyac feels a lot smoother and more responsive. Am I doing anything wrong? I tried limiting the hz to 240 and enable ULMB, but it gets way too dark. Is there anything I can do to make this feel as responsive as my old tn with dyac?

if I can ask random question do you maybe play any football games like FIFA or PES ?

if so I would please like to know how you experience motion blur/overdrive/crosstalk on this monitor, when camera is moving fast from left to right etc during match?

most thing im interested in is 360 hz no ULMB vs 240 hz ULMB vs 144 hz ULMB, would be very appreciated !
I do. It is more so then on a TN, but this is also with shooters (more motion blur.) But I do not notice it AS much as I do with shooters.

alexander1986
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by alexander1986 » 10 Apr 2021, 15:39

dANii wrote:
10 Apr 2021, 15:09
alexander1986 wrote:
10 Apr 2021, 14:57
dANii wrote:
10 Apr 2021, 09:29
Hey chief, I am currently using this monitor but I feel that my old 2546 with dyac feels a lot smoother and more responsive. Am I doing anything wrong? I tried limiting the hz to 240 and enable ULMB, but it gets way too dark. Is there anything I can do to make this feel as responsive as my old tn with dyac?

if I can ask random question do you maybe play any football games like FIFA or PES ?

if so I would please like to know how you experience motion blur/overdrive/crosstalk on this monitor, when camera is moving fast from left to right etc during match?

most thing im interested in is 360 hz no ULMB vs 240 hz ULMB vs 144 hz ULMB, would be very appreciated !
I do. It is more so then on a TN, but this is also with shooters (more motion blur.) But I do not notice it AS much as I do with shooters.

ah I see, I guess by your reply you play on 360 hz / 360 fps without ULMB then?

because I think you wouldn't see any blur at all with ULMB, just more interested in crosstalk at top/bottom and if its noticeable at all on stuff like linesmen/crowd, etc since the ball can obviously move from top to bottom of pitch and left to right and so on, so the focus is not always in center like FPS games..


so if I can ask did you ever try 240 hz ULMB or 144 hz ULMB in football game on this monitor ?

because, on my ancient vg248qe asus monitor, strobing at 120hz with 240 fps in game, removes 100% of all motion blur and ghosting in fifa and fps games, and looks visually perfect, but is so old monitor with probably double the input lag of modern 240 hz+ monitors , also colors could be better of course, so am interested in upgrading for this reason, better colors+lower input lag+higher refresh rate, but I don't want the strobing to be noticeable or distracting in-game ..


thanks again !

tosspek
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by tosspek » 10 Apr 2021, 17:13

daviddave1 wrote:
02 Apr 2021, 13:09
daviddave1 wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 14:11
UNKKit wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 12:13
Why would an older 144hz monitor (XG2402) perform better though? I can't think of any reasons.
masterblaster wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 13:48
daviddave1 wrote:
28 Mar 2021, 16:14
Yesterday i got the XL2546K: The colors and textures look great: Especially in PUBG and MW. U have a big advantage in spotting enemy's.

But I also play Quake Live. There's a huge difference in the amount of frags I can get with my XG2402 and the XL2546K. On the XL2546K I am just a regular player. Above average at best.

On the XL2546K I had a couple times where my plasma gun just couldn't catch up with the enemy or my mouse movement. I just switched back to the XG2402 and the difference is humongous.
On the XG2402 for example I am 9 of 10 at the top of the list on the servers I usually play. With the XL2546K its something like 3 out of 10. I like Quake Live just for that. It's a game where I am actually good at. I don't wanna give that up.

So unfortunately the XL2546K is going back to the store tomorrow for a refund.

I am going to give the 360hz a try. If its also mediocre @ Quake Live I'm going to stick with the XG2402 until the new Viewsonic 24'' 240 IPS comes out. Around next week the Alienware AW2521H 360hz should arrive. I will keep u guys posted.
I am confused on what you think youre experiencing here. How would a XL2546K with dyac+ be worse than the XG2402? How can a newer 240hz panel be worse than an older 144hz panel? I cant imagine input lag or response time being that different from a 144hz xg2402.... Placebo maybe?
Both great questions. (its def not placebo in QL, some movements where impossible to do on the XL2546K for example someone falling down fast close then tracking then railing (hard to explain )) If I had the answer I would give it. Maybe 1k pollingrate mice run better on the XG2402 144 hz in Quake Live. I just ordered the 8k Viper for my 360hz monitor next week. i will keep u guys posted...
Ok the Alienware AW2521H 360hz just arrived today. To make a long story short: Its very very good Its better then the XL2546K and the XG2402 also in Quake Live . no question about it. Its the monitor i was looking for. I am still top notch in QL and even much better!: i pulled off some combos, moves and insane highscores that felt very very good. believe it or not.

Also worth mentioning: The 360hz feels easy on your eyes. The Dyac on the XL2546K drained my energy way quicker. The IPS is very nice also.

Ok thats it. Tnx guys!!!!
Hey daviddave1! I've read your feedback about the AW2521H and that sounds really great! I want also buy one, but I'm not sure why some Pro's switched back from this new 360Hz Alienware AW2521H to the Zowie XL2546 or 2546K. That seems to me like a sponsoring from Dell and the Pro's still prefer the 240Hz models XL2546 or 2546K. (after they have done a bit of advertising for the new AW2521H).

For example pro player ScreaM from Team Liquid, he advertise the new 360Hz AW2521H in one of his youtube videos, but in his newer videos or streams he used again his old XL2546. Maybe it is better to buy the XL2546 or XL2546K? Maybe TN-Panel is still better and the king?
XL2746S 1080p 240Hz TN // XG258Q 1080p 240Hz TN

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BTRY B 529th FA BN
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by BTRY B 529th FA BN » 12 Apr 2021, 10:47

I don't understand Response Time. How is the Dell Alienware 2521H have a faster response time than the Asus PG259QNR? I've been looking at the charts but don't understand them

udl30
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by udl30 » 22 Apr 2021, 02:22

I've just purchased this monitor recently, but I found that it would not turn off completely by clicking the power button.
It only turn off the backlight, but the panel itself is still receiving the signal and display the content.
Only disconnecting the power from the power cord/ removing dp cable can fully turn it black.
Is mine a problematic one? Anyone having the same issue?
Any solution to this? (Tried almost every OSD setting)
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 22 Apr 2021, 12:24

That is normal.

It will turn off backlight (often 90% of power consumption) before turning off the panel.

It will automatically hibernate later by turning off the panel later, don’t worry about it.

Its multiple stages of power management is done to make it faster to turn the monitor back on if briefly powered off. Many monitors now take a long time to boot up due to its extra features, so this is a balance.

If an issue (privacy etc) use Win+L to lock computer, and set screensaver to turn off the monitor quicker.
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Re: Official Asus ROG Swift 360Hz PG259QN Owners Thread

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 22 Apr 2021, 12:28

BTRY B 529th FA BN wrote:
12 Apr 2021, 10:47
I don't understand Response Time. How is the Dell Alienware 2521H have a faster response time than the Asus PG259QNR? I've been looking at the charts but don't understand them
Overdrive tuning differences between different panels. Overdrive always changes response time.
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Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

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