Stuttering with G-Sync (new Monitor).

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Olonne
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Joined: 12 Oct 2020, 03:46

Stuttering with G-Sync (new Monitor).

Post by Olonne » 12 Oct 2020, 04:37

Hello guys!
First of all, I want to apologize in advance for my English. Unfortunatly, it's not my native. But, anyway, I will try my best.

I have an issue with stuttering (microfreezing, i dunno how to call it) on my new G-Sync monitor (Fist purchase was VG27AQ - I gave it back to the shop, and the second one was - S2721DGF).

My current configuration:
CPU: Intel Core i7 8700K 3.7Ghz Coffee Lake (+Thermalright "True Spirit-90")
MB: Asrock Extreme 4 Z370 (BIOS 1.60)
GPU: Nvidia MSI GeForce GTX 1080TI 11GB Gaming X - Nvidia 456.71 Drivers - Connected with DP 1.4
Monitor: Samsung S24D590PL , 24" AD-PLS
OS : Windows 10 PRO x64 - 2004

All driver are updated.


For the last several years (like 3-6 years) I just played on my old AD-PLS 60Hz Full HD Samsung (1920x1080, sometimes 2560x1440 DSR, with locked 60FPS) and didn't care about anything, because everything was perfectly smooth (and it still very smooth). But time has come, and I decided to buy a new monitor (and new GPU in perspective - 3080 RTX).
As soon as I plugged my new monitor to my PC, adjusted the settings and tried to play one of my games, I noticed some visible stetturing, while G-Sync is ON. Those stutterings appeared in all games I have. I mean, when FPS is not perfectly equal to current Hz rate, there are a lot of microfreezing (or can i call it stuttering?). Especially it is mostly visible in motion.

I read this article (CLICK) and since then, I tried tons of variations of the settings, but none of them worked. NONE OF THEM :(

For example.
NVCP: Full screen G-Sync mode ON
V-Sync ON
Low Latency Mode ON (or Ultra)

RTSS or In-game FPS Limiter:
Native HZ-Rate of monitor is 165Hz, so, i sat it to 160-162.

In-game Settings:
V-Sync, Tripple Buffering - OFF. FPS Limiter - OFF (if RTSS in on).

But still,if there is fluctuating FPS, framerate becomes very choppy and not smooth (compared with FullHD 60Hz + V-Sync ON). Even if the FPS rate is high. I did EVERYTHING according to that article above, but nothing works. I tried that setting on two different monitors: VG27AQ (I thought that it was an issue with monitor) and then on brand new Dell (S2721DGF). Please, give me some advice.

By the way, there are several other forum members, who have similar problem, but unfortunatly they still didn't get any usefull fix for this: Thread №1 Thread №2.

I am ready to provide some additional information, if needs. Thank you in advance.

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jorimt
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Re: Stuttering with G-Sync (new Monitor).

Post by jorimt » 12 Oct 2020, 09:02

Olonne wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 04:37
I have an issue with stuttering (microfreezing, i dunno how to call it) on my new G-Sync monitor (Fist purchase was VG27AQ - I gave it back to the shop, and the second one was - S2721DGF).
G-SYNC only prevents sync-induced stutter. It does not remove stutter caused by the system or game.

Does that same stutter occur with G-SYNC off, but with all other settings the same (e.g. same FPS limit, same game, same conditions)? I ask, because many new G-SYNC users tend to immediately blame it for issues it can't fix (or cause).
Olonne wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 04:37
By the way, there are several other forum members, who have similar problem, but unfortunatly they still didn't get any usefull fix for this: Thread №1 Thread №2.
Those two users aren't getting a "useful fix" because their issues aren't caused by G-SYNC.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: Acer Predator XB271HU / LG 48CX OS: Windows 10 MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 UG RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

Olonne
Posts: 4
Joined: 12 Oct 2020, 03:46

Re: Stuttering with G-Sync (new Monitor).

Post by Olonne » 12 Oct 2020, 09:43

Thank you for your answer.
jorimt wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 09:02
G-SYNC only prevents sync-induced stutter. It does not remove stutter caused by the system or game.
I am aware of this. But when I changed my old FullHD 60Hz, I expected G-Sync to make fluctuating FPS more smooth. But in fact, it made it even worse.
jorimt wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 09:02
Does that same stutter occur with G-SYNC off, but with all other settings the same (e.g. same FPS limit, same game, same conditions)? I ask, because many new G-SYNC users tend to immediately blame it for issues it can't fix (or cause).
That's the point! NO! As soon as I plug my old AD-PLS monitor and try same game (same conditions: preset, settings e.t.c.) the expirience become buttery smooth on FullHD - 60Hz+V-Sync on (no stutters\microfreezing\other issues). And I want to highlight it: game expirience also smooth with 2560x1440 DSR (through NVCP) as well. So, it seems like not a PC performance issue.
But, when I use my new 2k G-Sync monitor (even two monitors) - here we go: no matter if G-Sync is ON or OFF (OFF - same, but with awfull tearing) here come choppy framerate in motion, while playing every game.

My only way to partially solve this issue is to limit my FPS extremly hard (through RTSS). For instance: I have fluctuating FPS around 80-100. So my only way is to limit it to 75-80. But i think that wrong, and something is not working properly. So, if my steady FPS is not equal to my current HZ amount, framerate become very choppy.
jorimt wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 09:02
Those two users aren't getting a "useful fix" because their issues aren't caused by G-SYNC.
Well, okay.

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jorimt
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Re: Stuttering with G-Sync (new Monitor).

Post by jorimt » 12 Oct 2020, 10:56

Olonne wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 09:43
That's the point! NO! As soon as I plug my old AD-PLS monitor and try same game (same conditions: preset, settings e.t.c.) the expirince become buttery smooth on FullHD - 60Hz+V-Sync on (no stutters\microfreezing\other issues). And I want to highlight it: game expirience also smooth with 2560x1440 DSR (through NVCP) as well. So, it seems like not a PC performance issue.
But, when I use my new 2k G-Sync monitor (even two monitors) - here we go: no matter if G-Sync is ON or OFF (OFF - same, but with awfull tearing) here come choppy framerate in motion, while playing every game.

My only way to partially solve this issue is to limit my FPS extremly hard (through RTSS). For instance: I have fluctuating FPS around 80-100. So my only way is to limit it to 75-80. But i think that wrong, and something is not working properly. So, if my steady FPS is not equal to my current HZ amount, framerate become very choppy.
This sounds more like a general performance issue.

Higher than 60 framerates at higher than 60 refresh rates are much more demanding on the system than a locked 60 FPS at 60Hz, and every little frametime inconsistency, stutter, and spike can be more evident, as it is simply more difficult for the system to maintain with the same consistency.

Individual user expectations, sensitivities, and perceptions play a lot into this as well, so not being able to see or troubleshoot this "stutter" ourselves makes this really hard for us to determine whether what you're experiencing is expected or normal.

If you have some examples of what games this occurs in and when, it may start to narrow down what you're talking about.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: Acer Predator XB271HU / LG 48CX OS: Windows 10 MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 UG RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

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RealNC
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Re: Stuttering with G-Sync (new Monitor).

Post by RealNC » 12 Oct 2020, 11:00

Did you configure it correctly? Are you sure you're running your games in fullscreen exclusive mode?
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jorimt
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Re: Stuttering with G-Sync (new Monitor).

Post by jorimt » 12 Oct 2020, 11:04

RealNC wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 11:00
Did you configure it correctly? Are you sure you're running your games in fullscreen exclusive mode?
I was giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, and assuming G-SYNC was configured correctly, but it is a fair point. It should be verified G-SYNC is first configured properly.
Olonne wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 04:37
If you're using "Full screen G-Sync mode ON" as you mentioned, make sure your game isn't in borderless/windowed mode, and the G-SYNC indicator (either via a monitor readout or the NVCP option) is confirming G-SYNC is engaged.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: Acer Predator XB271HU / LG 48CX OS: Windows 10 MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 UG RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

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Re: Stuttering with G-Sync (new Monitor).

Post by RealNC » 12 Oct 2020, 11:35

Also if you use more than 1 monitor, this can make g-sync stutter.
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Olonne
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Re: Stuttering with G-Sync (new Monitor).

Post by Olonne » 12 Oct 2020, 13:13

jorimt wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 10:56
This sounds more like a general performance issue.
Higher than 60 framerates at higher than 60 refresh rates are much more demanding on the system than a locked 60 FPS at 60Hz, and every little frametime inconsistency, stutter, and spike can be more evident, as it is simply more difficult for the system to maintain with the same consistency.
Individual user expectations, sensitivities, and perceptions play a lot into this as well, so not being able to see or troubleshoot this "stutter" ourselves makes this really hard for us to determine whether what you're experiencing is expected or normal.
If you have some examples of what games this occurs in and when, it may start to narrow down what you're talking about.
My current configuration served me for the last...like, 3-4 years. And I didn't have any complains. But when I just bought a new monitor - boom! and my config is overdated :) Yeah, my PC is not High-End for the 2020 Fall. But come on, 8700K+1080TI+16GB+970M2NVME is not enough for middle-AA titles in 2560x1440x70-80FPS? I don't demand consistent 144Hz on Ultra presets, I only require smoothness on fluctuating middle framerates :) That's what G-Sync should do,no?
Okay. here are several examples of games, which I tested while expiriencing those stuttering on new monitors: Port Royal 4, Ghostrunner, Mafia Remake, Death Stranding and CS:GO. CS:GO have the highest framerate, but I still should limit framerate to 120 (165Hz Monitor), to get the smooth expirience. Not so AAA-titles, right?

To be clear, I don't argue with you, but it's very hard for me to get the logic of this situation, because I don't understand what I should do, to make this problem less annoying.
Maybe I should try a new GPU, like 3080 (when it will be available in my country)?

jorimt wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 11:04
I was giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, and assuming G-SYNC was configured correctly, but it is a fair point. It should be verified G-SYNC is first configured properly.
If you're using "Full screen G-Sync mode ON" as you mentioned, make sure your game isn't in borderless/windowed mode, and the G-SYNC indicator (either via a monitor readout or the NVCP option) is confirming G-SYNC is engaged.
Yes, I can assure you that I check things like this very carefully. Plus, i get a lot of information from the popular article (CLICK).

But, okay, my settings for example in any game:
NVCP:
G-sync status - ON (Fullscreen mode)
V-Sync - ON (or Fast)
Low Latency Mode - ON (or Ultra)
Indicator of G-Sync mode - ON (just in case)

RTSS:
Frames limited to 162 (165-3)* - it's the most sensless condition for me, because my avareage FPS is fluctuating between 70 and 80 in different games. Why the hell is limit of 162 should help me somehow?

In-game:
FPS Limiter - OFF
Tripple Buffering - OFF
V-Sync - OFF
RealNC wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 11:35
Also if you use more than 1 monitor, this can make g-sync stutter.
Nah, I can't even handle one monitor for now :)

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jorimt
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Re: Stuttering with G-Sync (new Monitor).

Post by jorimt » 12 Oct 2020, 13:53

Olonne wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 13:13
My current configuration served me for the last...like, 3-4 years. And I didn't have any complains. But when I just bought a new monitor - boom! and my config is overdated :) Yeah, my PC is not High-End for the 2020 Fall. But come on, 8700K+1080TI+16GB+970M2NVME is not enough for middle-AA titles in 2560x1440x70-80FPS? I don't demand consistent 144Hz on Ultra presets, I only require smoothness on fluctuating middle framerates :) That's what G-Sync should do,no?
I didn't say it was your PC specs. I currently have an 8700k, 1080 Ti, and 165Hz 1440p G-SYNC monitor as well, and I'm not experiencing your issues with G-SYNC, which makes this even harder to narrow down, especially if you already have G-SYNC properly configured.

What I was saying, is locked 60 FPS on a 60Hz monitor is less demanding on the system than a higher variable framerate at a higher refresh rate (and higher resolution; you went from 1080p to 1440p, which is about an ~80% jump in res). It means your system is now GPU-bound more often than not, and on your previous system at 60Hz 1080p with a 1080 Ti, it probably never was, and it was also able to maintain a much higher framerate more consistently.

I wasn't bringing this up in regards to G-SYNC, only as a "good to know," as reduced performance can sometimes introduce stutter and frame pacing issues.
Olonne wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 13:13
Yes, I can assure you that I check things like this very carefully. Plus, i get a lot of information from the popular article (CLICK).

But, okay, my settings for example in any game:
NVCP:
G-sync status - ON (Fullscreen mode)
V-Sync - ON (or Fast)
Low Latency Mode - ON (or Ultra)
Indicator of G-Sync mode - ON (just in case)

RTSS:
Frames limited to 162 (165-3)* - it's the most sensless condition for me, because my avareage FPS is fluctuating between 70 and 80 in different games. Why the hell is limit of 162 should help me somehow?

In-game:
FPS Limiter - OFF
Tripple Buffering - OFF
V-Sync - OFF
I wrote the article you linked.

As for your G-SYNC settings, those look correct (except don't use Fast Sync with G-SYNC, it will cause stutter), but you still didn't mention what window mode you're setting the games to. For now, to be safe as you troubleshoot, I recommend you set the NVCP G-SYNC mode to "Enable for windowed and full screen mode," just so that G-SYNC will also function in borderless and windowed games, as some games "Fullscreen" mode is still borderless.

Finally, the 162 FPS limit for 165Hz is to ensure that the framerate never exceeds the G-SYNC range. Even though you're only averaging 70-80 FPS, game menus and less demanding game scenes can still cause the framerate to exceed your refresh rate, disengaging G-SYNC in those instances.

That said, if your average framerate never exceeds 162 FPS, then you can set the limit just below your average for more consistency, if you prefer.

The important thing with G-SYNC is simply to keep the framerate within the refresh rate at all time; as long as you set it at least 3 frames below your max refresh rate, how much lower you set it is up to you.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: Acer Predator XB271HU / LG 48CX OS: Windows 10 MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 UG RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

Olonne
Posts: 4
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Re: Stuttering with G-Sync (new Monitor).

Post by Olonne » 12 Oct 2020, 14:36

jorimt wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 13:53
I wrote the article you linked.
I know. And this article is realy great. Thank you.
jorimt wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 13:53
but you still didn't mention what window mode you're setting the games to. For now, to be safe as you troubleshoot, I recommend you set the NVCP G-SYNC mode to "Enable for windowed and full screen mode," just so that G-SYNC will also function in borderless and windowed games.
In-game setting always set as "Full screen". I have never used Borderless or Windowed modes. And "Enable for windowed and full screen mode" is set by deafult, once you plug the new G-Sync monitor. I wish it was that easy...
jorimt wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 13:53
That said, if your average framerate never exceeds 162 FPS, then you can set the limit just below your average for more consistency, if you prefer.
Yeah, as I said earlier, it's the only way to get rid of those terrible stutters for 95% of the time for me. But I am sure it's a very strange way to gain framerate consistency. I though G-Sync should provide smoothness without any tearing effect even with unstable framerate. But not in my case whatever reason.
jorimt wrote:
12 Oct 2020, 13:53
What I was saying, is locked 60 FPS on a 60Hz monitor is less demanding on the system than a higher variable framerate at a higher refresh rate (and higher resolution; you went from 1080p to 1440p, which is about an ~80% jump in res). It means your system is now GPU-bound more often than not, and on your previous system at 60Hz 1080p with a 1080 Ti, it probably never was, and it was also able to maintain a much higher framerate more consistently.
Okay let me ask this question other way: What should I check within my Hardware\Software? Should I try to roll back from Win 10 2004 to Win 10 1909 or something? I realy don't know what to do, because I always keep my PC stuff under control (CPU\GPU Temps, GPU Drivers\Chipset Versions, Windows 10 updates, e.t.c)
Or, maybe,I should just try to change my GPU for more powerfull one? (But still, you have the same spec, and there aren't any issues.)

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