BenQ Zowie XL2546K 240hz TN

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AddictFPS
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Re: BenQ Zowie XL2546K 240hz TN

Post by AddictFPS » 06 Nov 2020, 12:02

This korean review seems show measures far from real GtG 100% time. Is needed show oscilloscope curves. Due to this my serious reference is ApertureGrille.com and Rtings.com

To know the speed of XL2546K at all frecuencies and overdrive modes, it takes to much time and work, like ApertureGrille has done with Asus VG27AQ, VG279QM, and LG 24GM79G here: https://www.aperturegrille.com/features ... #Feature-3

This is the most deep and complete GtG review i ever see, amazing ! Hope this guy get XL2546K and finaly we can see the raw measures of the fastest TN monitor, without the marketing layer.

If GtG max were 1.5ms, screenshot shared in this thread with AMA High and DyAc+ Premium would be free of crosstalk, because 1.5ms is much less than 4.16 refresh cicle. But need up to 3 refresh cicles to hide it.

Image

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axaro1
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Re: BenQ Zowie XL2546K 240hz TN

Post by axaro1 » 06 Nov 2020, 12:25

AddictFPS wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 12:02

To know the speed of XL2546K at all frecuencies and overdrive modes, it takes to much time and work, like ApertureGrille has done with Asus VG27AQ, VG279QM, and LG 24GM79G here: https://www.aperturegrille.com/features ... #Feature-3
The way ApertureGrille changed the GTG benchmark methodology is unprecedented, I genuinely hope that other reviewers will follow his path.

You are right about Playwares, I tried to compare the korean reviews with some western sites.
I just compared the RTings review of the XL2540 with the playwares review of the same monitor and the difference in G2G is 2ms less on the korean review (4.1ms VS 2.1ms)
When comparing the Hardware Unboxed review of the MAG251RX with the Playwares review the difference is -0.45ms with Faster.
4.7ms vs 2.77ms when comparing TFTcentral vs Playwares review of the VG279QM.

The PG259QN review from Hardware Unboxed is -1ms compared to TFTCentral with the same overdrive.

Judging by what a5hun proved with his video I'll definitely take TFTCentral more into consideration compared to other reviewers like HA and Playwares, it seems like the guys from TFT are focused on more realistic G2G calculations.

Normally I'd argue that since the korean reviewer is using the same testing methodology and his measurement on the S model reflect into the K model being 1ms (basically 2x) faster then it should make sense but at this point I'm not willing to put my trust in a reviewer who is consistently on the lower end of the G2G calculation spectrum.

From what I can see Aperture Grille > TFTCentral > Rtings > Hardware Unboxed > Playwares.

Damn, we need a standardized way to test for G2G, Benq Zowie's marketing team is in fact making statements like this:
A: The response time test result will be different because of the test method. Also, there’s a lack of standard of industry measurement. That is why we don’t claim response time as avoid any misunderstanding from now on.
and they are absolutely correct

EDIT: I guess we are gonna have to wait for RTings review of the K model, they bought it last week.
XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN (MAIN) | VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS

R5 3600 4.35ghz 1.237V AVX stable | 3600mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR]https://i.imgur.com/R5Rm34i.png | 5700XT Gaming OC 2059mhz 1121mv[/color]

Conan
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Re: BenQ Zowie XL2546K 240hz TN

Post by Conan » 06 Nov 2020, 13:05

alapsu wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 09:12
I have the non-K XL2546 and the only reason I use it without DyAc enabled is BenQ's arbitrary restriction on the monitor's minimum strobing hz. Their monitors can't do single strobing at <100 Hz, so if I'm trying to play a newer game that can't consistently hit at least 100 FPS, it's nicer to play with strobing turned off.

Also, with some games (notably, the Halo: The Master Chief Collection PC port), some motion is locked to a certain framerate that's lower than your overall framerate. An example can be found in MCC's Halo: CE: if you watch the opening cutscene with strobing turned on, you'll notice the character animations (which I believe are locked to either 30 or 60 fps) stutter to the point of unwatchability while the rest of the world (including camera motion) looks nice and smooth.
But correct me if I'm wrong. Why would anyone use this monitor (TN in this case) for the reasons you stated? If experience of reading other people posts and experiences suggest that other monitors (IPS) in this regard, provide much better experience? Or am I wrong about that?
Or of course, you like to play other competitive games and you wish to have best you can from the both worlds?
Thank you for reply. I'm still learning.

axaro1 wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 10:19

Dyac or not this panel is fast, judging by the crosstalk images provided by detto_o and comparing them with the S model I think that the better panel tuning actually improved the crosstalk at 240hz and from what I can see it's 100% viable at 240hz so I'd love to try it.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible to raise the 181hz trick cap to 200hz for crosstalkless strobing.
Wow, I'm stunned at the results this guy got. This panel seems rather fast.
I talked today with the amazon.de customer support. Mine arrives approximately around December the 10th.
I only play one game, and that is Quakelive.
Other games worth mentioning are Dota 2 - but i dont care about hz so much there. Although I hit around 240 fps in dota 2.
And I play kovaak. But the main reason I'm getting it because of Quakelive.
The game is ridiculously fast and I tend to be aware of my surroundings quite a lot. Moving the mouse 360° is pretty much the style how I play. With everything going on I can see my XL2430T can't keep up with the style of my gameplay.
I stopped playing cs:go and warzone...I might start again once the monitor arrives, just to check it out a bit I guess.

Stevie66
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Re: BenQ Zowie XL2546K 240hz TN

Post by Stevie66 » 06 Nov 2020, 17:12

axaro1 wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 10:19
Conan wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 08:45
Besides, why would anyone use 2546K without dyac.
If this korean review is correct then in terms of G2G this panel is the fastest LCD available in the market, with a minimum G2G of 1ms and a maximum of 1.5ms, the small variance between the lowest and the highest G2G can be a good indicator of the lack of asymmetrical blur, which can improve perceived motion clarity.

I put it alongside with the S variant reviewed by the same reviewer with the same testing methodology

Image

The chief said that:
I've seen GtG improve by >50% on the same panel with simple tuning stuff before. It depends on how bad it was before, and how much headroom to improve there is. Improved TCON/scalers might also be used even if the panel is identical; and the TCON might have cleaner LCD-driving voltages that work GtG slightly better. Overdrive lookup tables may be re-tuned for better GtG with less overshoot.
Next Tuesday I will put it side by side with my VG259QM to get a better idea of how good it is, I've been using OD120 at 240hz and OD80 at 280hz on the Asus so I'm perfectly fine with a little bit of overshoot if it means that there is an improvement in motion clarity.

I've been asking a lot of pros on twitch.tv owning Benq models if any of them where using Dyac and basically 30% of them were using it in games like CSGO and Valorant, fewer were using it in R6s and only 1 guy out of 18 was using it in Overwatch which is the main game that I play.

Dyac or not this panel is fast, judging by the crosstalk images provided by detto_o and comparing them with the S model I think that the better panel tuning actually improved the crosstalk at 240hz and from what I can see it's 100% viable at 240hz so I'd love to try it.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible to raise the 181hz trick cap to 200hz for crosstalkless strobing.
Yeah I'd figure with such a low GTG the UFO would look sharper but maybe it's just his tests, also any AMA other than off looks really bad to me, looks like the Asus 280hz at OD 100 almost. But in the end the Benq is probably meant to be used with DyAc always, I was interested to try the Benq but not a fan of strobing and those UFO tests with DyAc off turn me off

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speancer
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Re: BenQ Zowie XL2546K 240hz TN

Post by speancer » 07 Nov 2020, 20:25

TwentyFoe wrote:
01 Nov 2020, 04:11
speancer wrote:
29 Oct 2020, 15:59
.
You actually got me curious, as I haven't played CS:GO in ages - do pros use DyAc (or other motion blur reduction technologies, if not on a BenQ monitor)? You mentioned that you personally don't find it useful, but I'm wondering if other players/ pros feel the same way. I'm assuming there is a consensus (even if pros are ignorant in this regard, they had probably been instructed and briefed to the point where they would, at the very least, try, before coming to a conclusion). Clearly they wouldn't use G-Sync as it is very easy to maintain 240FPS+ in CS:GO, but what about DyAc? I tried to Google it but couldn't really find anything recent on that topic.

Hell, now other games come to mind for that question like Overwatch and Fortnite, for example - faster paced games that can be much more chaotic than CS:GO.
As far as I know, including what I recall reading from Chief Blur Buster posting about this, professional CS:GO players mostly do not use strobing. I don't have exact numbers or anything, I'd like to know for sure myself. I can tell you for sure however, that CS:GO super-stars like Niko, Xantares and S1mple don't use DyAc, and they all play on Zowie XL series monitors. Niko plays on XL2546, he confirmed on Twitch stream that he keeps DyAc disabled, S1mple and Xantares still use the older XL2540 without DyAc. I had a strong impression that Niko didn't even know what DyAc was, he just said he doesn't use it, but hey, pros are not necessarily any more educated about their gear than an average person, I think it's safe to assume that.

When it comes to other games, I couldn't tell you, I can only speak for my own CS:GO experience in that matter, as it's my only competitive title. I've seen DyAc being praised by some people, I actually recommend it myself if someone likes/takes advantage of strobing. DyAc is a good tech, quite possibly the best, or at least one of the best strobing technologies on the market, and it works without any brightness impact, which might be important for some.
Tested displays: Zowie XL2546KASUS VG259QMASUS VG279QMAlienware AW2521HFLAOmen X 25fZowie XL2546Zowie XL2540KMSI MAG251RXPredator XB273XPredator XB271HU
Now testing: Gigabyte M27Q

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axaro1
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Re: BenQ Zowie XL2546K 240hz TN

Post by axaro1 » 08 Nov 2020, 04:58

detto_o wrote:
23 Oct 2020, 14:37
This is my XL2546K.

https://youtu.be/mehHYJbQ94g

Thoughts?
What AMA were you using in this test? (and what AMA do you play with? Dyac ON/OFF?)
XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN (MAIN) | VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS

R5 3600 4.35ghz 1.237V AVX stable | 3600mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR]https://i.imgur.com/R5Rm34i.png | 5700XT Gaming OC 2059mhz 1121mv[/color]

pstn
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Re: BenQ Zowie XL2546K 240hz TN

Post by pstn » 09 Nov 2020, 15:11

can anyone post their monitor settings ? the colors out of the box are pretty bad

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axaro1
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Re: BenQ Zowie XL2546K 240hz TN

Post by axaro1 » 09 Nov 2020, 15:29

pstn wrote:
09 Nov 2020, 15:11
can anyone post their monitor settings ? the colors out of the box are pretty bad
I don't have the monitor yet but there's an .icm profile in the drivers for the XL2546K
https://zowie.benq.eu/en-eu/support.htm ... #SearchBar
XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN (MAIN) | VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS

R5 3600 4.35ghz 1.237V AVX stable | 3600mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR]https://i.imgur.com/R5Rm34i.png | 5700XT Gaming OC 2059mhz 1121mv[/color]

alapsu
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Re: BenQ Zowie XL2546K 240hz TN

Post by alapsu » 10 Nov 2020, 10:08

Conan wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 13:05
But correct me if I'm wrong. Why would anyone use this monitor (TN in this case) for the reasons you stated? If experience of reading other people posts and experiences suggest that other monitors (IPS) in this regard, provide much better experience? Or am I wrong about that?
Or of course, you like to play other competitive games and you wish to have best you can from the both worlds?
Thank you for reply. I'm still learning.
You aren't wrong at all. If I were to buy a new gaming monitor today, it would be an IPS model: either 360Hz/1080p or 240Hz/1440p.

At the time I bought my monitor, 240 Hz was only available on TN monitors, so I had to choose from what was available. An XL2546 is not ideal for every use case, but it's nice enough and I don't feel the need to replace it.

My other monitor is an LG 27UL650 (IPS), and (setting resolution aside) it's significantly better in lots of ways that matter, including brightness, color reproduction, and viewing angles. However, it maxes out at 60Hz, and (at least when gaming) those advantages fade in importance after using the XL2546 for a few minutes. Conversely, it's much harder for me to go from high-refresh/low-blur on the XL2546 to low-refresh, high-blur on the 27UL650 (even for stuff like cursor movement).

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axaro1
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Re: BenQ Zowie XL2546K 240hz TN

Post by axaro1 » 11 Nov 2020, 05:38

I found a japanese review of the XL2546K.

https://translate.googleusercontent.com ... P9guoTWVaw

If I compare their review of the PG259QN with the one from TFTCentral they nailed the overshoot error rate but they are measuring a much lower G2G so don't take the G2G measurements too seriously.


Aside from the questionable G2G measurements it is a very detailed review with some nice ufotests and there is a good analysis of Dyac+ compared to other strobe modes such as ELMB-Sync.

Dyac+ High = 3.09ms BFI duration (74.1% of the refresh window)
Dyac+ Premium = 3.47ms BFI duration (83.3% of the refresh window)

I'm surprised by this monitor having Displayport 1.4, all the 240hz IPS I've seen are running either 1.2a or 1.3, it's kinda overkill but still nice.

pstn wrote:
09 Nov 2020, 15:11
can anyone post their monitor settings ? the colors out of the box are pretty bad
According to the review:
Screen mode: standard
Screen brightness: 22
Color setting: user
RGB balance: 97/99/97
Black eQualizer: 0
Color Vibrance: 10

I'll probably make 1 preset for Dyac+ Premium strobing, one for AMA High with Freesync for competitive games where strobing is not worth it (or I can't achieve 240fps) and the last preset with this calibrated settings for content consumption (It can't be worse than my 75hz PLS, my last TN was so much better than it in terms of colors, the XL2546k will be my main)

Can someone elaborate on this quote from the review?
With an IPS panel, an error rate of over 10% is rather fatal, but with an originally fast TN panel, it's surprisingly inconspicuous.
How is overshoot on an IPS different from overshoot on a TN? Shouldn't it be about the same regardless of the speed of the panel? Hypothetically does a TN with 10% overshoot and the exact same response time as an IPS with 10% overshoot look better?


EDIT: I just received it :)
XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN (MAIN) | VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS

R5 3600 4.35ghz 1.237V AVX stable | 3600mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR]https://i.imgur.com/R5Rm34i.png | 5700XT Gaming OC 2059mhz 1121mv[/color]

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