Need advice deciding on 240hz IPS vs TN

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Solarflare
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Joined: 04 Nov 2020, 13:49

Re: Need advice deciding on 240hz IPS vs TN

Post by Solarflare » 05 Nov 2020, 20:43

Well looks like I need to wait for a bit which kind of sucks but what ever.

"NanoIPS 1440p 240Hz monitor....2021"

looks like a few solid 27" offerings on the way for this
alienware has one coming etc.
I was way to quick to grab a EX3203R reviews looked great but i should have know VA panel wouldn't be there.
And of course i gave my other BenQ 24" TN away to a co-worker before even fully testing heh.

Nejdez
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Joined: 30 Oct 2020, 12:17

Re: Need advice deciding on 240hz IPS vs TN

Post by Nejdez » 06 Nov 2020, 09:36

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
30 Oct 2020, 20:27
Nejdez wrote:
30 Oct 2020, 15:15
Im scared that the IPS panel will be a disadvantage to the Benq in terms of blur/delay though ive been hearing and seeing alot of good things about the IPS Panel progress lately.
If price is not a problem, consider the 360 Hz monitors. Strobeless motion blur reduction via sheer refresh rate is the cat's beans (while keeping G-SYNC).

280 Hz and 360 Hz IPS has less blur and less lag if you add more framerate to compensate.

240Hz IPS has a very very slight smidge more blur than good 240 Hz TN but I've seen 240 Hz IPS outperform the worse 240 Hz TN. It is already extremely close now.

If you add a bit more refresh rate, such as 280 Hz or 360 Hz, it annihilates the remaining TN disadvantages. Doubling Hz halves motion blur, so the little extra refresh rate oomph can help compensate the now-minor TN-vs-IPS differences.

Since doubling Hz (and framerate) halves motion blur without needing strobing -- Blur Busters usual recommendation is geometric refresh rate upgrades of at least 2x for most average laypeople, 60Hz -> 120Hz -> 240Hz -> 480Hz -> 960Hz.

60Hz to 144Hz = 2.4x upgrade (wow)
144Hz to 360Hz = 2.5x upgrade (wow)
144Hz to 240Hz = 1.67x upgrade (ho-hum)
240Hz to 360Hz = 1.5x upgrade (ho-hum)
Alright i take it back, price is not THAT big of a problem but im not ready to shell out 600 or more bucks for a monitor.. but im ready to go to a price up to 450Euros if it means that i dont regret my choice.

Been digging a bit more the past days and I probably nailed it down to the ASUS VG259QM and the Alienware AW2521HFL.
Ive been reading things about the Alienware and that the L model might be less prone to overshoot in faster settings, no idea if true.

I was going back and forth again, actually considering 1440p 165hz and/or going for 27" aswell but I actually nailed it down to 1080p 24" because i remember selling the 27" version of my current VG248QE and swapping to 24" as it felt more comfortable to play on.

Though i heard that the ASUS monitor performs worse at lower hz. Does this mean that lets say, i play Escape from Tarkov and get around 120frames and i notice tearing and decide to turn on GSync, will the input lag be worse the lower the fps gets on the ASUS as the hz "technically" gets lower too? Or is the ASUS just fine in terms of input lag with VRR on?

Does the Alienware have better colors etc and still perform just as good? I read that the ASUS has pretty bad colors for a IPS.
I feel like I cant win with these 240hz monitors, lol. But I still decided to nail it down to those two monitors because i really wanna try out IPS, especially when the TN 240hz alternatives (Benq and Asus TNs) are way more expensive which seems odd to me.

So which one might be more for me when i mostly play FPS games (competitive and non competitive)? :cry:

Q83Ia7ta
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Re: Need advice deciding on 240hz IPS vs TN

Post by Q83Ia7ta » 07 Nov 2020, 01:53

axaro1 wrote:
05 Nov 2020, 04:34
At first I really liked the VG259QM, it was definitely smoother, mostly because it basically doubled the refresh rate (144 to 280).
The input lag was exceptional.
But after a couple of months of playing it became frustrating to play with it, I dropped from 3600 to 2900sr in Overwatch and I was underperforming in every single game.
Can there be an another reason? May by playing more by time and more persistently, you get tired and burn out.
axaro1 wrote:
05 Nov 2020, 04:34
Trying to find what was the issue bought a new mouse, a new mousepad and a new keyboard, tried every single windows 10 tweak to reduce telemetry and set a 0.5ms system timer before I was able to isolate the issue to the monitor, which I never thought could be the problem since it sounded like a great upgrade on paper.
Isolate the issue by trying these tons of possible solutions in short time imo is impossible imo.
axaro1 wrote:
05 Nov 2020, 04:34
When I switched the VG259QM to 144hz I started hitting crazy shots like the ones I used to make with the XG2402 and I started to rely on flicks much more.
Afaik this monitor has same problem with addition input lag (output/display lag) at non-native refresh rate (240/280hz) like many other 240hz models.

Don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to help and that's only my thoughts.

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Need advice deciding on 240hz IPS vs TN

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 07 Nov 2020, 03:11

axaro1 wrote:
05 Nov 2020, 04:34
When I switched the VG259QM to 144hz I started hitting crazy shots like the ones I used to make with the XG2402 and I started to rely on flicks much more.
It's interesting to note that 144Hz is slightly laggier on the 280Hz, but you might be accustomed to a Latency Aim Training Effect in the 2nd post of The Amazing Human Visible Feats Of The Millisecond.
Q83Ia7ta wrote:
07 Nov 2020, 01:53
Afaik this monitor has same problem with addition input lag (output/display lag) at non-native refresh rate (240/280hz) like many other 240hz models.
True.

That said.... with a Custom Resolution Utility, this can be manually fixed. This can annihilate the input lag disadvantage of a lower fixed-Hz refresh rate. Check this thread Quick Frame Transport.

In short -- Quick Frame Transport, where the Vertical Total of the loewr Hz is enlarged to approximately ((HigherHz)/(LowerHz))ths of the original Vertical Total. For example, a 120Hz mode with VT2250 instead of VT1125, can fully fix the low-Hz lag penalty of many 240Hz monitors. The only thing is that it only works with PCs since you need to create a custom mode.

A 120fps cap on 240Hz VRR also essentially does the same thing too (since VRR is created via a variable-size blanking interval that becomes bigger during lower Hz). You're just recreating the low-lag VRR behavior via a custom fixed-Hz mode.
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axaro1
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Re: Need advice deciding on 240hz IPS vs TN

Post by axaro1 » 07 Nov 2020, 03:30

Q83Ia7ta wrote:
07 Nov 2020, 01:53
Can there be an another reason? May by playing more by time and more persistently, you get tired and burn out.

Isolate the issue by trying these tons of possible solutions in short time imo is impossible imo.

Afaik this monitor has same problem with addition input lag (output/display lag) at non-native refresh rate (240/280hz) like many other 240hz models.

Don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to help and that's only my thoughts.
I tried so many different peripherals and tweaks because at the time for me it was unthinkable that the monitor that I just upgraded to was the problem.

I'm 100% sure that the issue is motion clarity related, I cannot track during flicks because it all looks smeared, I have to guess where the enemy is and try to predict(because I can't tell) when I have to stop (Yesterday I tried hard Kovaak's flick tests and I hit 2 shots out of 30 on the Asus, on the 75hz PLS that I'm currently using I hit 9/30 consistently, on long range tracking tests it's different, I perform on par with the PLS), which is a completely different playstyle than at 144hz where I simply start the flick and I always know where I have to stop to shoot an enemy.

When I get dived close range I always lose track of the enemy diving me, I'm often completely oblivious of where the enemy is and I cannot outplay at 280/240hz, when I switch back to 144hz/165hz (even with Adaptive Sync ON, which I tend to prefer since I can still get the benefits of 280hz scan out) I always end up clutching.

I've read about some users who tried both the 240hz TN and IPS claiming that 240hz TNs feels much clearer and I've seen some others moving from first gen 240hz TN panels to 240hz IPS claiming that the upgrade was 100% worth it.
I'm gonna give the Benq a shot (with or without strobing), if I fail to adapt to 240hz on the TN I will give up on 240hz monitors.
XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN (MAIN) | VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS

R5 3600 4.35ghz 1.237V AVX stable | 3600mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR]https://i.imgur.com/R5Rm34i.png | 5700XT Gaming OC 2059mhz 1121mv[/color]

drjackmann
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Re: Need advice deciding on 240hz IPS vs TN

Post by drjackmann » 07 Nov 2020, 08:14

axaro1 wrote:
07 Nov 2020, 03:30
Q83Ia7ta wrote:
07 Nov 2020, 01:53
Can there be an another reason? May by playing more by time and more persistently, you get tired and burn out.

Isolate the issue by trying these tons of possible solutions in short time imo is impossible imo.

Afaik this monitor has same problem with addition input lag (output/display lag) at non-native refresh rate (240/280hz) like many other 240hz models.

Don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to help and that's only my thoughts.
I tried so many different peripherals and tweaks because at the time for me it was unthinkable that the monitor that I just upgraded to was the problem.

I'm 100% sure that the issue is motion clarity related, I cannot track during flicks because it all looks smeared, I have to guess where the enemy is and try to predict(because I can't tell) when I have to stop (Yesterday I tried hard Kovaak's flick tests and I hit 2 shots out of 30 on the Asus, on the 75hz PLS that I'm currently using I hit 9/30 consistently, on long range tracking tests it's different, I perform on par with the PLS), which is a completely different playstyle than at 144hz where I simply start the flick and I always know where I have to stop to shoot an enemy.

When I get dived close range I always lose track of the enemy diving me, I'm often completely oblivious of where the enemy is and I cannot outplay at 280/240hz, when I switch back to 144hz/165hz (even with Adaptive Sync ON, which I tend to prefer since I can still get the benefits of 280hz scan out) I always end up clutching.

I've read about some users who tried both the 240hz TN and IPS claiming that 240hz TNs feels much clearer and I've seen some others moving from first gen 240hz TN panels to 240hz IPS claiming that the upgrade was 100% worth it.
I'm gonna give the Benq a shot (with or without strobing), if I fail to adapt to 240hz on the TN I will give up on 240hz monitors.
i play twice as good on a TN versus the newest gen IPS (280hz 1ms).

Q83Ia7ta
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Re: Need advice deciding on 240hz IPS vs TN

Post by Q83Ia7ta » 07 Nov 2020, 08:50

axaro1 wrote:
07 Nov 2020, 03:30
I've read about some users who tried both the 240hz TN and IPS claiming that 240hz TNs feels much clearer and I've seen some others moving from first gen 240hz TN panels to 240hz IPS claiming that the upgrade was 100% worth it.
I'm gonna give the Benq a shot (with or without strobing), if I fail to adapt to 240hz on the TN I will give up on 240hz monitors.
I'm happy with VG279QM (It has better response times than VG259QM by rtings. I'm not sure why there is so much difference - by physical LCD panel or exact LCD panel samples differs such) at 280hz OD 80. My previous monitor was Acer XF252Q (2ng gen 240hz TN), before that Benq XL2540 (1st gen 240hz TN) since 2016, before that various 144hz TN models for years. What I like in VG279QM is no visible overdrive artifacts and no any massive blur (that boggled me from trying non-TN panel). You have wrote nothing about additional lag at 144hz on VG259QM. Just give a try another flick test with 280hz, OD80 and don't forget to disable freesync in OSD.

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axaro1
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Re: Need advice deciding on 240hz IPS vs TN

Post by axaro1 » 07 Nov 2020, 10:05

drjackmann wrote:
07 Nov 2020, 08:14
i play twice as good on a TN versus the newest gen IPS (280hz 1ms).
Can you elaborate?
Q83Ia7ta wrote:
07 Nov 2020, 08:50
Just give a try another flick test with 280hz, OD80 and don't forget to disable freesync in OSD.
Trust me, I tried every single overdrive and refresh rate combo, the only one that felt right in terms of clarity when I first bought the monitor and I was used to the XG2402 was OD100, which provided extreme overshoot but a noticeable clearer image compared to OD60 and OD80.
Then I settled to OD80 and OD120 to reduce the artifacts...
XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN (MAIN) | VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS

R5 3600 4.35ghz 1.237V AVX stable | 3600mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR]https://i.imgur.com/R5Rm34i.png | 5700XT Gaming OC 2059mhz 1121mv[/color]

Solarflare
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Joined: 04 Nov 2020, 13:49

Re: Need advice deciding on 240hz IPS vs TN

Post by Solarflare » 13 Nov 2020, 17:23

how's the XL2546K been working out for you?

TTT
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Re: Need advice deciding on 240hz IPS vs TN

Post by TTT » 18 Nov 2020, 15:14

I have a XB252Q TN 240hz and just got the XB253Q IPS 240hz.

The IPS is just as fast if not faster, in games I don't see any blur or ghosting and obviously the image is much better.

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