Monitor tier list?

[Conan]

axaro1, at this point...he does not even need to get the benq, literally if he randomly picked any review of benq and saw the UFO's only, it would force him to throw the white towel in this debate between you two.
anyway...how do you prefer your motion blur settings? ama premium? dyac+ on?

[axaro1]

anyway...how do you prefer your motion blur settings? ama premium? dyac+ on?

It truly depends on the games I play.
With Valorant and R6S I keep Dyac+ Premium enabled (with AMA Premium), these are the only games where pro players tend to use Dyac+.
With Overwatch I play with Dyac OFF and AMA High but I'm still experimenting with Dyac ON/OFF.
With Apex I lock at 220fps (to prevent my GPU from hitting 99% usage) with Freesync ON and AMA Premium.

When you enable Freesync it changes the behaviour of AMA high, it goes from being basically the same as AMA Premium to being something inbetween OFF and Premium, this is good if you have less than 170fps with VRR enabled since Premium may introduce some overshoot.

[Conan]

With Valorant and R6S I keep Dyac+ Premium enabled (with AMA Premium), these are the only games where pro players tend to use Dyac+.
With Overwatch I play with Dyac OFF and AMA High but I'm still experimenting with Dyac ON/OFF.

It would be logical for me to have Dyac+ ON in Overwatch since it seems much faster paced game than Valorant and R6S (considering the recoil screen shake).
How does DYAC+ ON performs in overwatch compared having it OFF? I thought XL2546K excelled in the fast paced motion blur department such as Overwatch, Quake and other similar games.

[axaro1]

It would be logical for me to have Dyac+ ON in Overwatch since it seems much faster paced game than Valorant and R6S (considering the recoil screen shake).
How does DYAC+ ON performs in overwatch compared having it OFF? I thought XL2546K excelled in the fast paced motion blur department such as Overwatch, Quake and other similar games.

I keep it off in Overwatch because I don't see a single pro player using it compared to games like R6S or Valorant where it's much more common, mostly because it improves recoil control and target switching.

In Overwatch I mainly play dps hitscans(Mccree, Ashe, widow, s76) so I keep it disabled however I noticed that it does bring some benefits when playing projectile dps such as genji/doomfist, tanks like Ball, Winston, Rein or even supports such as brig and lucio.

Dyac+ with Brig is disgustingly good (almost as disgusting as being a brig player ) since you can be in the middle of a teamfight and perfectly flick health packs/whip shots without losing focus of everything that is happening around you.

One thing that surprised me compared to ELMB-Sync is the incredibly low amount of crosstalk, I want to describe it but I'll actually just make a video to show you how good it is.

phpBB [video]

[Conan]

That looks amazing.

One thing I learned playing high tier gaming is, the more you are aware of things happening around you, the better you play.
If I'm aware of single thing, compared to being aware of multiple things happening around you; I can base my decisions much better in those split seconds if there is more than one factor taken into the equation. Its one of the benefits of having higher sensitivity; its much easier to swirl with the mouse around you to be aware as much as possible. Information wins the game, its kind of that simple.
That's why I think I'll be using DYAC+ all the time when I play. I don't think I will be better player because of that, I just don't wanna miss any information. Even if its a tiny bit pixel that caught my eye due to the fact I had it on and it can drastically change my decision in the game, then its worth it.

Anyway, amazon.de sent me an email today saying monitor is to arrive next wednesday. I am so excited. Especially now after seeing your video.
I hope you can make more videos like that. Thank for you that as well.

[RLCSContender*]

My definition of motion clarity

When a person with 20/20 vision sits in front of a monitor and notices the LEAST AMOUNT OF UNWANTED LCD motion artifacts/annoyances.

Basically, every thing is fair game. This isn't crosstalk vs crosstalk, this is overall motion clarity vs motion clarity between the BEnq's Dyac vs the VG259QM's ELMG-SYNC(yes elmb sync IS FAIR GAME because it's the monitor's unique feature). I factor in EVERYTHING.

with that, a person with the vg259qm's ELMB-SYNC will have little to no TEARING, Judder(if FPS drops under 5x), Stutter, and most important of all MICROSTUTTER. When strobing is on, microstutters that may annoy people prior to when it was off, will be 10x more annoying because it's 10x more noticeable. The moment you turn on strobing is the moment MICROSTUTTER will be put on steroids. I can tolerate microstutter w/o strobing, but when strobing is on, in my opinion i CANNOT TOLERATE, it just becomes way too annoying because microstutter AMPLIFIES if BFI is on.

the crosstalk differences on in practice motition is extremely difficult to tell because the black frame that is inserted is dominant above crosstalk. thus actual motition when playing a video game doesn't reflect the UFO cross talk differences. This also goes with slight ghosting at 240hz. Ghosting at 240hz is extremely difficult to spot and is non dominant in actual gameplay motition. (i'll prove this on my next post on my topic)

Benq easily loses in strobing on and strobing off. Strobing off, 280hz is STILL 280hz therefore 15% less motion blur. The asymmetrical blur is below 4ms g2g so it's still fast enough to keep up. For arguments sake, lets just assume the asus is a 240hz monitor instead of 280hz monitor. Guess what? TN technology is synonymous with this annoying intermittent vertical line artifact called PIXEL INVERSION, (some IPS monitors have it but it's not nearly as noticeable and there are for sure fixes and workarounds).

Again, I've done my homework. I've ran in practice tests. I'm coming from a place of EVIDENCE, i'm not here to rain on anyone's parade. I really did CONSIDER every thing. I really was VERY VERY careful to crown the king of motion clarity. i'm sorry guys but the vg259qm is way ahead of the other monitors in that regard. The 2nd place isn't even remotely close(whether it's strobing is on or not)

i will crown the king of motion clarity with my very last post on blurbusters.

Read this before i crown the VG259QM as the king of motion clarity (PS, this is RLCScontender's criteria, but as an esports professional, you can take my word for it or not. But this is what the "PROS" use since I AM one.

Not all LCD artifacts are made equal. Some are definitely not deal breakers(TN's color shift for example isn't a dealbreaker if he sits directly in front of his mointor). however, i've compiled the motion artifacts that will automatically be disqualified. WHich means, if a monitor has one of these LCD artifacts; that monitor wilL LOSE instantly if compared to a monitor who doesn't.

I keep the criteria simple. The monitor with the LEAST unwanted LCD motion artifacts TAKES the king of motion clarity. The VG259QM fits that mold the best out of any other monitor in the world right now.(or the ones i've tested of course). Basically, if i ask someone to sit right in front of a monitor and he's an EXPERT at finding out the unwanted LCD motion artifacts, my bet is that he will pick the vg259qm, Alienware aw2521hfl, and msi mag251rx. (the big 3)


Here are dealbreakers. These are automatic. If a monitor has one of these deal breakers, it's an automatic loss already if it's compared with a monitor who doesn't.


DEALBREAKERS

1. Overshoot(regardless if it's 1%)
2. Intermittent pixel inversion artifacts (TN is disqualified)
3. Any monitor that isn't a 360hz monitor or a 240hz/280hz monitor(lower refresh rate means more motion blur)
4. any monitor LARGEr than 24.5". Sorry but i believe EYE TRACKING and focal point play a huge role in performance and 27" is far too big and wide to be competitive. I've explained this perfectly well in this post i made

Overshoot is a DEALBREAKER

any monitor larger than 24.5" is a dealbreaker(except the odyssey g7 32")

why is OVERSHOOT a dealbreaker?
That feint inverse ghosting you may see at 960 pixel speed(usually in Newbie lobbies or lobbies filled with beginners). In my in practice tests, that "feint inverse ghosting corona" will turn into a blazing blue fireball at 1440-1920 pixel speed(the higher ranked lobbies)

Just how slow is 960 pixel speed? in rocket league standards, it's VERY slow. That kind of speed is only seen in "bronze" ranked lobbies(the beginner rank in rocket league).

Here's a video i made. I made a training pack in rocket league and the moving ball crosses my monitor at exactly 2.00 seconds. Notice how slow 960 pixel speed is. Even the odyssey monitors passes this kind of speed. Also, most inverse ghosting monitors will pass.

phpBB [video]

1440-1920 pixel speed. everything gets extremely ugly. Even the fastest monitors cannot process this kind of speed.

Here an image of the alienware aw2521hfl on "faster" on 1920 pixel speed. It almost looks like a blazing blue fireball(although OD faster has a lot of overshoot even at 960 speed, so most ppl would know this isn't the OD to play on from the get go) But to show everyone what "bad" overshoot looks like, here it is. (keep in mind, this is on an od setting that is noticeably bad even at 960 pixel speed, but for the sake of reference, here it is.



Here's a more realistic photo I took of a "Monitor" that has feint inverse ghosting coronas at 960 pixel speed but will have noticeable bright trails if the rocket league ball goes as fast as 1920 pixel speed. Yes folks, that is 1% OVERSHOOT.



that feint inverse ghosting corona you may see on those UFO ghosting tests is at 960 pixel speed. Sadly, it will have a much much brighter inverse ghosting corona if the pixel speed goes above 1080 pixel speed.

That is how i came to a conclusion that ANYTHING WITH INVERSE GHOSTING (WHETHER IT'S FEINT or not), is UNPLAYABLE. The only times most people would find 960 pixel speed is on NEWBIE lobbies or a lobby where everyone is camping(sniping).

why 24.5" only?. sorry guys but there are no Ifs ands or buts. Ff the monitor is larger than 24.5", I WILL NOT CONSIDER IT FOR COMPETITIVE GAMING especially in the context of this post(motion clarity). But here's proof of it.




For the acer predator to beat the MSI MAG251rx in competitive gaming, you would need to follow these steps.




40-52 inches distance is good to match the 24-30 inch focal point of 24.5" monitors





MSI focal point(24-30 inches)



To summarize, more eye tracking=slower reaction times=you will LOSE on 50/50 situations. 50/50 situations account for 60% of gameplay in almost ANY competitive game. And i'm not talking about "EYE" tracking, but RETINAL TRACKING. . Moving your retina from one end of the screen to the other, if it's slower than your opponent, then your opponent will beat you almost every single time there's a 50/50 shootout.

i can talk about accomodation, Reticular activation system, Field of View, periph, 20/20, myopic, etc it will be too much trldr;rl. I''m a visual learner so here's a photo. The gist of it is this, 24.5" is more comfortable on the eyes and my retinal focal point is crystal clear when i track a moving object. Not only that but because of the size of the monitor, retinal tracking is WAY less compared to a 27" monitor owner. Me personally, when i move my retina from one side to another, it was a ridiculous 50ms-60ms. 50ms in gaming is A LOT OF TIME.




Why are pixel inversion artifacts a dealbreaker? (Sorry TN users, but unfortunately, this is synonymous with TN technology and AU optronics fast IPS monitors, only difference is, there are workarounds on the fast IPS AOU monitors, but for TN, there is no noticeable fixto pixel inversion artifacts)



From what I found, the most BUTTERY smooth gameplay that i have ever experienced came down to this.

Where GHOSTING ends but BEFORE overshoot begins.

based off a thousands of IN PRACTICE tests, ANY MONITOR where the response time has the least possible ghosting but never passing the point of no return(where overshoot begins). It came down to 3 monitors. I only CHOSE one monitor, and that is RLCSCOntender's MAIN and i will use this monitor to participate in RLCS season 10 and 11.

why is lower refresh rate a deal breaker?

Most people will say "it's hardly much of a difference from 144hz to 240hz. I beg to differ.( I would probably lose EVERY esports professionanal MATCH if i played at 144hz or 165hz refresh)

I put the fastest 1440p IPS 165hz monitor to the test the Nano LG viewsonic w/ variable overdrive (4.1ms g2g average) against my 240hz IPS monitor Alienware aw2521hfl

This is what 165hz vs 240hz looks like(keep in mind, this is among the fastest 1440p IPS monitors, the viewsonic NANO(which is slightly faster than the LG, so this isn't some "random" monitor, this is one of the fastest 1440p IPS monitors

Way too much motion blur for the 165hz viewsonic nano IPS. Whereas my 240hz alienware, although had some motion blur, it's good enough to not obstruct the way i play.

Dell Alienware AW2521HFL 240hz 1080p monitor



Viewsonic NANO IPS XG270QG 165hz 1440p monitor



here's the video i took. (if in case the skeptics here think i'm bsing)

viewsonic nano IPS

phpBB [video]

Alienware 240hz monitor (aw2521hfl)

phpBB [video]

sorry TN, no amount of fast response time(assymetrical blur) will save you from MOTION BLUR. The 360hz PG259QN will smash any TN in motion clarity, or any upcoming 360hz monitor.

asymmetrical blur aka ghosting based off my tests are INVISIBLE and extremely difficult to spot) especially if the refresh rate is above 200hz since you have less time viewing motion image retention artifacts

[axaro1]

My definition of motion clarity

When a person with 20/20 vision sits in front of a monitor and notices the LEAST AMOUNT OF UNWANTED LCD motion artifacts/annoyances.

Basically, every thing is fair game. This isn't crosstalk vs crosstalk, this is overall motion clarity vs motion clarity between the BEnq's Dyac vs the VG259QM's ELMG-SYNC(yes elmb sync IS FAIR GAME because it's the monitor's unique feature). I factor in EVERYTHING.

with that, a person with the vg259qm's ELMB-SYNC will have little to no TEARING, Judder(if FPS drops under 5x), Stutter, and most important of all MICROSTUTTER. When strobing is on, microstutters that may annoy people prior to when it was off, will be 10x more annoying because it's 10x more noticeable. The moment you turn on strobing is the moment MICROSTUTTER will be put on steroids. I can tolerate microstutter w/o strobing, but when strobing is on, in my opinion i CANNOT TOLERATE, it just becomes way too annoying because microstutter AMPLIFIES if BFI is on.

the crosstalk differences on in practice motition is extremely difficult to tell because the black frame that is inserted is dominant above crosstalk. thus actual motition when playing a video game doesn't reflect the UFO cross talk differences. This also goes with slight ghosting at 240hz. Ghosting at 240hz is extremely difficult to spot and is non dominant in actual gameplay motition. (i'll prove this on my next post on my topic)

Benq easily loses in strobing on and strobing off. Strobing off, 280hz is STILL 280hz therefore 15% less motion blur. The asymmetrical blur is below 4ms g2g so it's still fast enough to keep up. For arguments sake, lets just assume the asus is a 240hz monitor instead of 280hz monitor. Guess what? TN technology is synonymous with this annoying intermittent vertical line artifact called PIXEL INVERSION, (some IPS monitors have it but it's not nearly as noticeable and there are for sure fixes and workarounds).

Again, I've done my homework. I've ran in practice tests. I'm coming from a place of EVIDENCE, i'm not here to rain on anyone's parade. I really did CONSIDER every thing.

You considered "everything" except getting your hands on a single 240hz TN with a new gen panel, you only tested 240hz IPS, it's like saying that you know everything about video cards because you only tried either Amd or Nvidia.

On this topic you don't come from a place of evidence, you come from a place of speculation and assumption

You still are not getting that 280hz with a higher G2G can end up having worse motion clarity than 240hz with a lower G2G, 280hz has less input lag (-0.6ms) and it is supposedly more smooth but there is no way that the XL2546K loses to the VG259QM in motion clarity, not even close.

The simple fact of the Benq having less crosstalk is the first proof that it's faster in G2G.

Faster LCDs generally have less strobe crosstalk. For high-quality blur reduction, LCD GtG needs to be significantly faster than the time period of a single refresh cycle. Properly-tuned LCD overdrive also helps, preferably overdrive optimized for strobe backlight operation. Other monitor engineering techniques such as multi-pass refresh cycles also helps.

Brightness, Persistence, Strobe phase Control, Large VT control, better tuned Overdrives, ... there are so many reasons why the Benq is superior to ELMB-Sync.

The black insertion time with ELMB-Sync is 61.0% of the refresh window compared to 74.1% with Dyac+ High and 83.3% with Dyac+ Premium, this ends up giving a clearer image and don't forget that with the overvolted backlight of the Benq there is no brightness penalty.
Source: https://translate.google.com/translate ... r-xl2546k/

Benq easily loses in strobing on and strobing off. Strobing off, 280hz is STILL 280hz therefore 15% less motion blur. The asymmetrical blur is below 4ms g2g so it's still fast enough to keep up. For arguments sake, lets just assume the asus is a 240hz monitor instead of 280hz monitor. Guess what? TN technology is synonymous with this annoying intermittent vertical line artifact called PIXEL INVERSION, (some IPS monitors have it but it's not nearly as noticeable and there are for sure fixes and workarounds).

You are just jumping from a concept to another.
NO, the Asus isn't faster than the Benq in G2G and NO the Asus isn't better than the Benq with strobing.

sub 4ms asymmetrical G2G? Trust me, you would never want to see the normalized gamma response curve of that panel.

My panel doesn't suffer from vertical lines issues and most importantly it doesn't look blurry out of the box without sharpening filters.

I think that the issue with the VG259QM is panel coating and Vividpixel is just a bad sharpness implementation (with unexplainably bad convolution operations on the matrices which ends up creating white artifacts due to lack of normalization) but you have to keep it at at least level 25 unless you want to look at a blurry panel 24/7.

Literally the only 3 things that make the Asus a better choice than the Benq are:
1) Color accuracy
2) Viewing angle
3) dot crosshairs in the OSD (I really liked the green one in games that lacked crosshair control)

with that, a person with the vg259qm's ELMB-SYNC will have little to no TEARING, Judder(if FPS drops under 5x), Stutter, and most important of all MICROSTUTTER.

I actually found the Asus to be more stuttery with both ELMB ON/OFF compared to the Zowie during fps fluctuation.
Using an RTSS (or low lag vsync) on the Asus was a must, on the Benq I've never felt the need to use one.

[TwentyFoe]

anyway...how do you prefer your motion blur settings? ama premium? dyac+ on?

It truly depends on the games I play.
With Valorant and R6S I keep Dyac+ Premium enabled (with AMA Premium), these are the only games where pro players tend to use Dyac+.
With Overwatch I play with Dyac OFF and AMA High but I'm still experimenting with Dyac ON/OFF.
With Apex I lock at 220fps (to prevent my GPU from hitting 99% usage) with Freesync ON and AMA Premium.

When you enable Freesync it changes the behaviour of AMA high, it goes from being basically the same as AMA Premium to being something inbetween OFF and Premium, this is good if you have less than 170fps with VRR enabled since Premium may introduce some overshoot.

Oh how I wish you had played Fortnite so you would be able to tell me your impressions of DyAc+ in it. It's a very CPU-intensive game due to the calculations necessary, especially in stacked games (when lot's of people survive, the zone becomes smaller and there's lots of building and what not), so the FPS is not too stable. That is why it really surprised me to learn (from what I was able to gather, at least. Definitely not confirmed) that using adaptive sync is not too common. But I am also wondering about DyAc+ there. It's yet another setting that isn't really talked about, and I'm wondering if it will be a good fit.

Why don't you use DyAc+ in Apex? You mentioned that you prevent your GPU from hitting 99%, but that is a non-issue in Fortnite (on low settings), as I just explained why. The GPU is very under utilized.

Also, you mentioned that pros tend to use DyAc in VALORANT and R6S. What about CS:GO? I mentioned it in another post and his is the response I received, which is also inconclusive. I randomly bumped into a comment on reddit by a guy who claimed this, but as you can see, there's not too much proof. You mentioned that it helps you with recoil control, but from the 2 months of me playing VALORANT (beta - ~june), hoping it would be a better version of CSGO, I remember that there is no actual recoil. The first few bullets are somewhat known, and then it shifts from side to side randomly (and you can pay attention to the barrel to predict it better). However, if you say it is common in VALORANT, then I can't see how it wouldn't be common in CS:GO.

I don't really play to get back to CS:GO, but I'm just curious. Info related to Fortnite would be even more valuable to me, though, so if you did happen to play it (though, again, it seems like it isn't the case), it would be awesome to hear your 2 cents.

[axaro1]

Why don't you use DyAc+ in Apex? You mentioned that you prevent your GPU from hitting 99%, but that is a non-issue in Fortnite (on low settings), as I just explained why. The GPU is very under utilized.

I can't consistently hit 240fps in Apex, if the refresh rate is lower than strobe rate you get ugly double images which ruin motion clarity.
Should I make a 190hz custom resolution for strobing? Maybe I should, I didn't try custom resolutions yet on the Benq.

Also, you mentioned that pros tend to use DyAc in VALORANT and R6S. What about CS:GO? I mentioned it in another post and his is the response I received, which is also inconclusive. I randomly bumped into a comment on reddit by a guy who claimed this, but as you can see, there's not too much proof. You mentioned that it helps you with recoil control, but from the 2 months of me playing VALORANT (beta - ~june), hoping it would be a better version of CSGO, I remember that there is no actual recoil. The first few bullets are somewhat known, and then it shifts from side to side randomly (and you can pay attention to the barrel to predict it better). However, if you say it is common in VALORANT, then I can't see how it wouldn't be common in CS:GO.
I don't really play to get back to CS:GO, but I'm just curious. Info related to Fortnite would be even more valuable to me, though, so if you did happen to play it (though, again, it seems like it isn't the case), it would be awesome to hear your 2 cents.

I wouldn't say that dyac is "common" in valorant or CSGO but these two games are definitely two examples of games that can benefit from it.
You are right, there is no recoil control in Valorant but there is definitely recoil induced shaking and dyac+ helps with spray control in this regard.
If your entire screen is shaking you may lose track of your target or fail to spot other enemies entering in your field of view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQwIe058uv4
As you can see strobing is not a must but it does give you a slight competitive edge in some cases.

I always keep it on in Rainbow six because one of my favorite pro (Spoit) who is currently rank 2 use it (https://www.twitch.tv/itsspoit/clip/Agr ... &sort=time you can see the black bars moving on his screen)

[Conan]

Do you have any ICC profiles? I am asking Bijan basically on daily basis to provide ICC profile since he has spyder and can calibrate probably better than I can. Even using ICC profile of other person's monitor can be a better solution than no ICC profiles at all.

@Chief or any other admin, if you see this, feel free to move the posts about XL2546K to its thread. We kinda went off the subject but...oh well, it happens