ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

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Zace
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ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by Zace » 25 Nov 2021, 13:50

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
25 Nov 2021, 13:16
For the near term, XG2431's will probably sell at its original value (no amortization) due to supply shortage.
I just hope it doesn't go scalper pricing like GPUs (eek)

(I've even been having a hard time getting my hands on parts necessary to operate certain other Blur Busters projects too...)
If you check amazon.com rn it seems to have a lot of stocks so it will probably be fine in terms of value.

sunisc
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ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by sunisc » 26 Nov 2021, 03:10

Hey Chief.

I have a couple of questions.

When are we getting a VRR BlurBusters monitor?

Why can't we have a perfect strobe phase setting? I seem to have top and bottom double images but perfect clarity in the middle.
Is there a defect in my monitor? I read that I can adjust vertical totals to help this. (need to do more tweaking).

Is it possible to have perfect, low ips glow/backlight bleed? I have a noticeable amount when I have pitch black screen + lights off (don't notice it while gaming though).

I'm debating about purchasing another one to test my monitor with.

AM_acc1q
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ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by AM_acc1q » 26 Nov 2021, 04:23

It's $30 off ($299.99) right now on Amazon...

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CubanLegend
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ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by CubanLegend » 26 Nov 2021, 06:30

AM_acc1q wrote:
26 Nov 2021, 04:23
It's $30 off ($299.99) right now on Amazon...
It's tempting, but I've yet to see comparisons between this and the XG270's crosstalk.. plus its a 24", its a hard sell for a user of a 27" 1080p (XL2720z) like myself.

StarWarsCoffee
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ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by StarWarsCoffee » 26 Nov 2021, 08:40

JDnoob wrote:
20 Nov 2021, 20:52
something like this will probably be the best performing gaming display one can get for the foreseeable future.
Just made a brand new account to post about this monitor. Is it really this good? I recently made the switch back from 1440p to 1080p and picked up two AW2521HF's but I think I'm going to return them. The colors are great, but something about the monitor doesn't feel like it's quite perfect.

I was debating getting the 360hz AW2521H or the 280hz VG259QM, but then saw this monitor with the BB2.0 certification. My mainstay games are competitive FPS's (right now Apex) and I'm looking for the monitor that's going to give me the best performance in those sorts of titles.

masterblaster
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ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by masterblaster » 26 Nov 2021, 12:10

Yeah damn amazon has these on sale for $300 atm.... Not a bad deal.

Ive been messing with this monitor for a few weeks now and I do like it, but I think I am going to go a different route for a few reasons. I think I am going to go with either a 1440p 27" gaming or go for the acer 390hz 25"(if it ever comes in stock again to buy :( ).

AM_acc1q
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ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by AM_acc1q » 26 Nov 2021, 13:22

masterblaster wrote:
26 Nov 2021, 12:10
Yeah damn amazon has these on sale for $300 atm.... Not a bad deal.

Ive been messing with this monitor for a few weeks now and I do like it, but I think I am going to go a different route for a few reasons. I think I am going to go with either a 1440p 27" gaming or go for the acer 390hz 25"(if it ever comes in stock again to buy :( ).
What monitor size were you coming from?

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 26 Nov 2021, 15:58

masterblaster wrote:
26 Nov 2021, 12:10
Ive been messing with this monitor for a few weeks now and I do like it, but I think I am going to go a different route for a few reasons.
Understood -- you did say the monitor was too small and wanted a bigger screen!
Appreciate that you like the quality of the monitor.

Many esports users love 24" (or more exactly, 23.8") because they can see the whole screen and react with peripheral vision without having to move eyes or turn neck, like some have to do with 27" screens. But everyone has different preferences!
CubanLegend wrote:
26 Nov 2021, 06:30
It's tempting, but I've yet to see comparisons between this and the XG270's crosstalk.. plus its a 24", its a hard sell for a user of a 27" 1080p (XL2720z) like myself.
While XG270 is very very good, if strobing is your priority, 2.0 monitors are generally significantly superior in strobe tuning.

We've been working to make Strobe Utility-league tuning (either by app or by OSD) a mandatory part of Blur Busters Approved 2.0 -- in the long term this should be automated but no factory tuning can exceed Strobe Utility tuning in all cases, much like no factory color tuning can exceed colorimeter color tuning in all cases. That's why people buy colorimeters, and that's why Blur Busters Approved 2.0 supports Strobe Utility.

After DIY Strobe Utility tuning, it easily beats XG270 and XL2720Z in less crosstalk than both of them. It required the addition of user-readjustable Overdrive Gain to achieve this -- something not available on XL2720Z. Also, PureXP 240Hz on XG2431 is much better than PureXP 240Hz on XG270.

However, I want users to try all of 'em out and head-to-head them against each other in fully strobe tuned modes (QFT + Strobe Utility).
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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JustAfan
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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by JustAfan » 26 Nov 2021, 16:20

As of this afternoon B&H has the XG2431 in stock for $299.99 as well. I'd get one myself but already have one enroute from BLT.

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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 26 Nov 2021, 16:31

JustAfan wrote:
26 Nov 2021, 16:20
As of this afternoon B&H has the XG2431 in stock for $299.99 as well. I'd get one myself but already have one enroute from BLT.
I guess I should eventually sign up to be an affiliate of BH Photo Video. ;)
sunisc wrote:
26 Nov 2021, 03:10
When are we getting a VRR BlurBusters monitor?
Two different brands are currently in the works but it may not be for a generation ahead (e.g. 1 year, 2 years). I would not advise postponing your monitor-purchase plans since English-China communications has been incredibly difficult on strobed VRR nuances.

We were hoping for sooner but parts shortage / supply chain has bumped the HDLC (Hardware Development Life Cycle), so things like time between prototypes (EVT, DVT1, DVT2, PVT, MP) are stretched out unusually long, sometimes more than 2 years out. For one manufacturer, I've had a DVT2 shipped to me more than a year after a DVT1!!!

I cannot tell more details due to NDAs, but these are all industry standard workflows and nomenclature (Info about EVT DVT PVT prototype naming lingo) so I am 100% freely allowed to talk about generics like this -- it's all publicly published. I just have the ability to explain this stuff into these forums in ways nobody else can...

___

People thought we would NEVER convince industry to do optional retro-friendly motion blur reduction (60Hz single strobe). We did. We certainly dropped the microphone, there.

We pull miracles (perfect zero crosstalk 60Hz single strobe modes, third party Strobe Utility support, our strobing is better than a giant corporation called NVIDIA. Remember NVIDIA limits ULMB of 240Hz monitors to only work at 144Hz because they don't want to see users how bad crosstalk is at 240Hz. We uncap this hard-limit and let users choose any Hz to strobe at. Strobe Utility now makes it possible to have better-than-ULMB (Hz for Hz) at any Hz, in 0.001Hz increments, rather than NVIDIA limiting you to just three strobed refresh rates (like 85Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz).

Strobe at a lower Hz for less crosstalk, or strobe at a higher Hz because you want higher Hz. Your choice. No strobe presets. No strobe caps. In any Blur Busters Approved monitor...

I am a mega-fan of NVIDIA and AMD of course. Blur Busters would not exist without NVIDIA and AMD because NVIDIA and AMD makes the GPUs that powers the refresh rate race. But I will boast that Blur Busters Approved 2.0 just hits a home run ahead of NVIDIA ULMB if you use QFT and Strobe Utility together.
sunisc wrote:
26 Nov 2021, 03:10
Why can't we have a perfect strobe phase setting? I seem to have top and bottom double images but perfect clarity in the middle.
That is simply a law of physics caused by LCD pixels not refreshing at the same time. You can see high speed videos of LCD refreshing. Two things happen:
1. Each pixel "fade" from original color to new color. This is LCD GtG "pixel response".
2. Simultaneously, each pixel row begins their fade at a different time offset relative to beginning of refresh cycle. This is the "scanout".

phpBB [video]


This affects all brands, DyAc, ULMB, ELMB, VRB, PureXP+. There is no strobe phase possible because often 3 different refresh cycles are visible at the same time! (top edge has part of next one, middle has the main one, and bottom has the previous one). So there's no way to strobe only one refresh cycle. Blur Buster's famous Year 2012 video teaches users how an LCD is strobed:

phpBB [video]


It's a mathematical impossibility when LCD GtG is slower than the blanking interval of an LCD. If the idle period of a refresh cycle is less than the time it takes for LCD to reach GtG100% -- you are guaranteed to have crosstalk. Even crosstalk less than GtG90% is human visible, as per Pixel Response FAQ: Two Pixel Response Benchmarks: GtG Versus MPRT.

Image

Image

So clever tricks are needed for the perfect crosstalk-free LCD concurrently with low input latency. You can buffer a slow 120Hz refresh cycle (slowly delivering over the cable in 1/120sec) and THEN scan it out in 1/240sec. Reducing crosstalk, but you added input lag because of the buffering.

We prefer QFT (Quick Frame Transport, aka Large Vertical Totals). This means the panel can refresh realtime on the fly off the cable (with only scanline buffering, not full frame buffering). So 120Hz refresh cycle transmitting over the video cable in 1/240sec, while the panel's chip (scaler/tcon) is refreshing the LCD at the same time in 1/240sec in realtime, in perfect cable:panel scanout sync. Scanout sync doesn't always happen (see advanced diagrams of cable scanout diverging from panel scanout), and the input lag problems.

The good news is that XG2431 has a trick called QFT, that speeds up scanout. For example, a 60Hz or 85Hz or 100Hz refresh cycle can now sweep-out in 1/240sec instead of 1/60sec. This means LCD refreshes faster, and GtG can finish sooner in a longer blanking interval (pause between refresh cycles).
sunisc wrote:
26 Nov 2021, 03:10
Is there a defect in my monitor?
No, it's laws of physics.
To reduce this behaviour:
1. Reduce refresh rate. The better "PixelResponseTime:RefreshTime" ratio will reduce crosstalk.
2. Increase the blanking interval. The better "PixelResponseTime:BlankingTime' ratio will reduce crosstalk.
3. Retune your panel to your panel lottery/temperature. Colorimeters can achieve better-than-factory color tuning, and Strobe Utility can achieve better-than-factory tuning. This is because LCDs vary slightly, and you need to custom-tune your panel.

If you do 1/2/3, you can get perfect zero crosstalk at some lower refresh rates, with a great sweet spot at about 120Hz for PC gaming.
sunisc wrote:
26 Nov 2021, 03:10
I read that I can adjust vertical totals to help this. (need to do more tweaking).
Correct. Please look at the animated GIFs at www.blurbusters.com/xg2431

Image

Large VTs on the GPU side reduce crosstalk without increasing lag (because Large VTs avoid the need for full frame buffering in the LCD).

Making Low-Lag Low-Crosstalk Strobing Easier For Users

Easy Explanation:
I am pushing hard for a manufacturer to add a "Quick Frame Transport: ON/OFF" to the onscreen menu of their monitor.

Advanced Explanation:
Behind the scenes, in the programming of firmwares, this requires automatically replacing all EDIDs with QFT-recalculated EDIDs. I have come up with a Blur Busters QFT Formula that replaces GTF, CVT, CVT-R timings formula. It's a really simple formula that simply executes a CVT-R formula on max-Hz, and simply applies a QFT Formula to create all lower-Hz modes out of max-Hz CVT-R.

FreeSync ON/OFF in OSD already automatically replaces the EDIDs in an EDID-swap, so doing QFT ON/OFF would do something similar. However, no manufacturer has yet bit on the delicious easy plug-and-play QFT.... YET. (it's a shame, but manufacturers are too busy with catching up on pandemic/supply chains). So we are still forced to tell users to use ToastyX CRU.

Long term, I want manufacturers to add QFT EDIDs (e.g. enable "Quick Frame Transport: ON" to automatically enable custom plug-and-play EDIDs). This will enable users to avoid the need to use ToastyX CRU over the long term. But many manufacturers don't even understand some of the stuff Blur Busters is currently teaching them. Many panel ISVs are just trying to repolish AUO/Innolux/LG/Samsung/etc panels and know less about them than the panel manufacturers (who aren't responsible for strobe tuning). left hand, right hand. That's where Blur Busters comes in become the supplier of knowledge to monitor firmware vendors such as Suzhou Lehui, and get things tuned. Communication (and English/China translations) is sometimes about 80% of the work of Blur Busters Approved sadly, and sometimes it turns a Blur Busters profit into a break-even. It's a LOT of work, and the way Blur Busters is refusing to approve monitors without the strict Blur Busters Approved 2.0 criteria -- means very few units come out per year, and it can take years.

Eventually, we are trying to speed this up somewhat, perhaps by releasing our Blur Busters Display Tester (our in-house colorimeter-style accessory that we build to measure latency/GtG/MPRT/PWM/strobe/GtG-heatmapper/etc), but the pandemic put a hold on those plans. Boo.

Manufacturers will be able to use our hardware-based Blur Busters Display Tester to speed up engineering of their monitor. It will even be easy enough for small-time small-batch manufacturing (range of 100-to-1000 units of displays). This strategic release of limited run of Blur Busters Display Testers (eventually) will hopefully speed up manufacturers achieving Blur Busters Approved 2.0 ....
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

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