Lenovo Y25-25 vs Viewsonic VX2458P

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Trackr
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Lenovo Y25-25 vs Viewsonic VX2458P

Post by Trackr » 15 Jan 2021, 14:45

I've had a 3007WFP-HC (30"/1600p/60hz/8ms) for 12 years now and its showing its age when it comes to playing high-paced FPS games.

I'm looking for a second monitor to go alongside it.

I've narrowed my options down to a 24" TN 1ms vs a 24" IPS 4ms (?)

The best ones I've found are the Viewsonic VX2458P and the Lenovo Y25-25, the latter being almost twice as expensive around me.

On the one hand, the TN has a lower response time, but on the other hand the IPS has the color accuracy and viewing angles I'm so accustomed to.

On the one hand, going from 8ms to 4ms is still a huge difference, but on the other hand TN panels seem to have come a long way in terms of quality.

Wanted to know what you guys thought.

Thanks :)

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Re: Lenovo Y25-25 vs Viewsonic VX2458P

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 15 Jan 2021, 16:08

Trackr wrote:
15 Jan 2021, 14:45
I've narrowed my options down to a 24" TN 1ms vs a 24" IPS 4ms (?)
Forget old IPS 4ms, stick to IPS 1ms. Although realworld is more than 1ms, even panels advertised as "1ms GtG IPS", are vastly faster than all past IPS panels not advertised as "1ms GtG". For non-esports players, IPS is now practically as good as TN nowadays.

Yes, yes, yes, TN is faster pixel response. But you have a 3007WFP! Perspective. The new IPS is 10x faster compared to your 3007WFP. TN is only barely 1.5x faster than the best IPS today. You're reading the picky esports stuff, but you have to consider you've got a 3007WFP, a very old IPS with 14ms pixel response (in some cases, >50ms realworld). Consequently, you'll get almost 100% of the pixel response upgrade staying IPS. So why not re-evaluate based on that reference? Once GtG is a tiny fraction of a Hz, the actual refresh rate is way more important for casual ergonomic reasons for your eyes.

Today's IPS has a real-world pixel response speed approximately 10x faster than the very old 3007WFP (from my eye's experience) so the TN-vs-IPS is insignificantly tiny on a relative basis on 3007WFP-versus-"Fast IPS".

You have the pros/cons (IPS glow versus TN viewing angles, etc) but your eyes are used to IPS, so I recommend the 1ms IPS panels.

Don't buy any IPS panel dated before year 2020. The "Fast IPS" technology are all 2020-models and newer, you will know it's one of the new faster IPS if it's

If you want the new fastest IPS, make sure:
(A) It is released in 2020 or later
(B) It is advertising "1ms GtG IPS" or "Fast IPS" or "NanoIPS"

Alternative Options:
1. Why not hit two birds with one stone?
Purchase a 27" NanoIPS (2560x1440) running at 165Hz. The color gamut is similar or better than the 3007WFP, with brilliant colors that look amazing in PhotoShop. I looked at 3007WFP and looked at say, XG270QG, and even for Visual Studio and Adobe Photoshop, I prefer losing 3 inches and a few pixel rows, to get the nice 165 Hz refresh rate combined with approximately 10x faster pixel response than the old 3007WFP. Almost having cake and eating it too. The only issue with XG270QG is that the KSF phosphor will add red-ghost if you use motion-blur-reduction mode (the flicker mode that allows a monitor to emulate a CRT -- see the Motion Blur Reduction FAQ. But you probably don't need to worry about that because 3007WFP doesn't even have a motion blur reduction mode. Even merely just running 165Hz combined with the much faster "Fast IPS" panels -- gives you approximately one-third motion blur for scrolling/dragging/panning on an ViewSonic XG270QG or LG 27GL850, versus your old 3007WFP. These are all wide-color-gamut monitors, and NanoIPS improves on the color quality you're used to on your 3007WFP! And as a bonus, you get FreeSync/G-SYNC too which eliminates stuttering because it's a great eraser of single-framedrop stutter, see simulated animation at www.testufo.com/vrr to see how small framedrops & framerate-changes becomes seamlessly stutter-free thanks to the magic of variable refresh rate... How would you love to have cake and eat it too, in one panel?? (as long as you don't mind losing 160 pixel rows).

2. Or why not consider 240Hz?
It's not just for esports anymore. 240Hz is also a visual pleasure. So if you're downgrading colors, why not max out your refresh rate to maximize your visual pleasure? Most 24" monitors are narrow-gamut so why not consider a 240Hz+ 1ms IPS monitor? 240Hz to futureproof better. Doubling Hz halves web browser scrolling motion blur, and quadrupling Hz gives you one-quarter web browser scrolling motion blur. You should keep an eye, for example, on the upcoming ViewSonic XG2431 or a similar 24" 240Hz IPS monitor.

Also, don't confuse GtG and MPRT pixel response times -- www.blurbusters.com/gtg-vs-mprt

How Much Will Refresh Rate Improvements Affect My Screen?
To understand the approximate amount of motion blur improvement you will see at www.testufo.com here is a reference chart on how refresh rates will improve your web scrolling / map panning / window dragging / other movements.

This image below assumes GtG=0ms, framerate=Hz, and not using a motion blur reduction modes. So, therefore, it will actually be slightly bigger than this because your slow GtG means your 60Hz motion blur at www.testufo.com is currently somewhat worse than this image below.

So your improvement going to 60Hz(14ms GtG) -> 165Hz(1ms GtG) may be closer to almost a 4x improvement in motion blur. Persistence (from limited refresh rate) and ghosting (slow GtG) combine to add extra blur/smear/ghosting.

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Trackr
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Re: Lenovo Y25-25 vs Viewsonic VX2458P

Post by Trackr » 17 Jan 2021, 13:55

The best monitor I've found is the Lenovo Y25-25. Is that one of the 1ms 2020 models you referred to?

The reason I wrote 4ms is because my perception was that 1ms wasn't possible on IPS.

Also, if TN is 1.5x faster than 1ms IPS, is it still not worth it? Mind you, the monitor I currently have is the 3007WFP-HC which is 8ms

Thanks for the response.

Trackr
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Re: Lenovo Y25-25 vs Viewsonic VX2458P

Post by Trackr » 17 Jan 2021, 15:31

Also, when it comes to price, the 144hz TN monitors like the G25-10 and the VX2458 are around $300 in my country.

The Y25-25 is $450 and the VG259QM is $600.

I've heard the Asus is better but is it $150 better and is the Lenovo $150 better than a 144hz TN panel?

I am buying this for the most part to play Apex Legends, which is capped at 190 fps anyway.

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Re: Lenovo Y25-25 vs Viewsonic VX2458P

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 18 Jan 2021, 04:31

Trackr wrote:
17 Jan 2021, 13:55
The best monitor I've found is the Lenovo Y25-25. Is that one of the 1ms 2020 models you referred to?
There's also the ASUS VG259QM and PG259QN, as well as ViewSonic XG270 and the upcoming XG2530. And there's the LG 27GL850-B as well as the ViewSonic XG270QG, a bunch from MSI MAG251RX and quite a few others -- all of them use the new "Fast IPS" technology.

But if you want to replace your 3007WFP monitor with something that "have cake and eat it too", you want something 27" 1440p (2560x1440) such as LG 27GL850 or XG270QG.
Trackr wrote:
17 Jan 2021, 13:55
The reason I wrote 4ms is because my perception was that 1ms wasn't possible on IPS.
Correct, but the advertising is still correct in that any panels advertised as "1ms GtG IPS" (not MPRT) is much faster than any past IPS.

You're not getting 8ms either, it's actually far slower than that -- 8ms can actually be a much bigger number such as 20ms to 40ms when measuring GtG100% rather than the GtG 10% to 90% as seen at www.blurbusters.com/gtg-vs-mprt

The "advertised numbers versus real world number problem" still applies to the 3007 too, you are not getting 8ms GtG100% either. So you're closer to 4ms-vs-40ms realworld, rather than not 4ms-vs-8ms realworld.

Just like 1ms=4ms on new panels, and your 8ms=40ms on your old panel. (Be fair! It is already confirmed your 3007 is not true 8ms GtG100% either, just like the new IPS isn't true 1ms GtG100% either)

The new "1ms GtG" panels (really 4ms) is still almost 10x faster than your "8ms GtG" panel (GtG90%) but really 20ms-to-40ms for GtG100%. Your 3007WFP-HC has some ghosting issues when you view www.testufo.com/ghosting -- if the blur is not symmetrical on left/right edges of your UFOs, then your GtG is way slower than 8ms).
Trackr wrote:
17 Jan 2021, 13:55
Also, if TN is 1.5x faster than 1ms IPS, is it still not worth it?
Not in my opinion for a person like you who is used to the wide-gamut IPS look. Refresh rate is now way more important in fixing motion blur once GtG is this low. You're getting 90% of the improvement just by upgrading to one of those new "Fast IPS" panels.

I see thousands of LCDs as I travel for work -- and conventions -- and manufacturers hire me to improve their LCDs.

Compared to your 3007WFP versus today's high-Hz TN/IPS, the TN-vs-IPS(2020+ high Hz) is sooooo vanishingly tiny compared to "3007WFP-versus-new TN" and "3007WFP-versus-New IPS"

Do you still prefer two monitors, or do you want a superfast (10x faster realworld) equivalent of 3007WFP (all-in-one)?
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fins
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Re: Lenovo Y25-25 vs Viewsonic VX2458P

Post by fins » 20 Jan 2021, 13:01

Trackr wrote:
17 Jan 2021, 15:31
The Y25-25 is $450 and the VG259QM is $600.
Wow, these are HUGE markups to the price that I see in the US. Y25-25 here is $304.

Did you decide on what you are going to get?

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
18 Jan 2021, 04:31
all of them use the new "Fast IPS" technology.
Sorry to jump into this conversation, but is Y25-25 actually considered "fast IPS"? I didn't find anything on the official site, but third-party reviews (e.g. AnandTech) quotes both "Fast IPS" and "1ms GtG" :?

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Re: Lenovo Y25-25 vs Viewsonic VX2458P

Post by Trackr » 20 Jan 2021, 13:21

You know, I was at first totally sure of going for a second 24" IPS. Then I was totally sure of getting a 24" TN..

Now I am totally sure of replacing my 3007WFP-HC with a 27".. and I am NOT the type to make a spontaneous decision.

I waited for a LONG time for the 3007WFP-HC to be released in 2006 because 14ms was just too high for me and 8ms seemed amazing at the time. I totally understand that it is considered garbage right now, I am happy for that.

I remember getting my Sony PSP in 2005 only to realize in retrospect that the reason I couldn't enjoy playing it was because its screen was SO bad (I think 25ms+ GtG) that it made my eyes hurt. I don't know if you were around for that but it was sad.

Anyway, the XG270QG has a poor rating for "HDR Gaming" on RTings. Should I take that to mean that it's not as good as my 3007 for AAA games that are cinematic and graphically intensive, such as Cyberpunk and Crysis?

If I'm replacing the 3007, it has to be for something that has just as high of a quality, is my intention.

Thanks for the help!

Trackr
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Re: Lenovo Y25-25 vs Viewsonic VX2458P

Post by Trackr » 20 Jan 2021, 13:25

fins wrote:
20 Jan 2021, 13:01
Trackr wrote:
17 Jan 2021, 15:31
The Y25-25 is $450 and the VG259QM is $600.
Wow, these are HUGE markups to the price that I see in the US. Y25-25 here is $304.
Oh yeah, prices in Israel are insane - they used to be crazier. I go back to the states for PC components whenever I'm able, but a monitor is just too big to take on a plane.

Even if I had it shipped, the customs taxes would turn that $300 into $500 or higher.

But the LG 27GL850 is only $750 which is good if its essentially replacing 2 monitors, so that's great!

Trackr
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Re: Lenovo Y25-25 vs Viewsonic VX2458P

Post by Trackr » 20 Jan 2021, 14:32

Okay, I've been looking into the 27" 1440p 144hz monitors.

The LG 27GL850 (or 27GL83A) cost ~$700.
The Viewsonic XG270QG is no longer sold here, but the XG270QC is also $700.
The ASUS XG279Q is $1,000. It's literally so expensive that it's cheaper to buy it from Amazon for $600 and then pay $320 in shipping and taxes.. but then it would be a pain to return it if it has any dead pixels, right?

I like the aesthetics of the LG a lot more and it's cheaper, but 165hz/170hz is nice to have, right?

What do you think?

Trackr
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Re: Lenovo Y25-25 vs Viewsonic VX2458P

Post by Trackr » 20 Jan 2021, 14:38

Sorry for the spam, but I can't edit or see my posts..

I just found the Gigabyte M27Q. It's only $600 here and also 170hz. Same price as the ASUS 259QM, which is only 24" and 1080p.

Thinking about buying it.

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