BenQ XL2540K or Asus VG258QM

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Falkentyne
Posts: 2788
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: BenQ XL2540K or Asus VG258QM

Post by Falkentyne » 11 Apr 2021, 15:26

How are you guys getting inverse ghosting with AMA off (OD gain 0 is the same thing as AMA off, by the way)?

I just did some tests on my XL2746S. Blur reduction disabled.
While the default AMA settings have inverse ghosting for high and premium, these manual values have no inverse ghosting at all.

This is 100hz with OD Gain 15, Dyac off. You can see there is no inverse ghosting to speak of. This looks pretty similar to the "hidden" AMA Low of my XL2720Z when I reach it by going from MBR ON, setting AMA to high after MBR is on, then s-switch profile to MBR Off on that monitor.

https://i.imgur.com/y0czxlV.jpg

The phone picture looks worse (especially at the top) than it does IRL, as the entire screen looks identical. (remember: 27" monitor so viewing angles strike again!) Middle section is closest. Note that AMA high defaults to OD Gain=26.

This is 240hz, OD Gain 1A set in the factory menu, Dyac off. Note AMA High defaults to OD Gain 2B.
https://i.imgur.com/I4WQzxW.jpg

Again no inverse ghosting anywhere.
(Dyac enabled profiles have different OD Gain settings vs DyAc disabled).

For completeness, this is 100hz with OD Gain 1A, VT=2250, and DyAc Enabled at High. Ignore the black bars, my phone seems to hate strobing modes.

https://i.imgur.com/ZmN1S3l.jpg

Your guys XL246K's and XL2740K's don't look like this?

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axaro1
Posts: 627
Joined: 23 Apr 2020, 12:00
Location: Milan, Italy

Re: BenQ XL2540K or Asus VG258QM

Post by axaro1 » 11 Apr 2021, 15:49

Falkentyne wrote:
11 Apr 2021, 15:26
Your guys XL246K's and XL2740K's don't look like this?
There's absolutely no overshoot on my XL2546K with AMA Off, there's some blur behind the ufo due to slow pixel response times and even RTings confirms that there is 0% overshoot error.
AMA Off has a little bit more blur than your XL2746s with OD Gain 1A.

I cannot repeat enough that AMA High and AMA Premium are specifically designed to be used with Dyac when Freesync is OFF, the difference between these two modes with strobing disabled is very small until you enable Dyac and run an high speed Ufotest/Moving photo test.
I'm talking about 1920pps+.

AMA Premium is slightly faster than AMA High in some specific transitions and AMA High has slightly less overshoot in some other transitions.

Both AMA High and AMA Premium suffer from overshoot artifacts (Unless you enable Freesync that makes AMA High perfect for the 160-240hz range with 0 overshoot and faster response times than AMA Off)

This is what AMA High with Dyac Premium looks like on my unit:
Image

This is what AMA Premium with Dyac Premium looks like:
Image

With AMA Premium the Ufo in the middle is a little bit cleaner at the expenses of overshoot on the Ufo on top.

I should probably make another motion pursuit test but with Frog Pursuit to have a better understanding of the level of overshoot in more transitions, especially looking at the traffic lights with the 5 grey scale background.

I mainly play with AMA Premium + Dyac Premium and uncapped fps, I find myself playing better with Dyac altough it seems like I perform better with Dyac OFF in Kovaak (kinda confirming BardozVal's theory on strobing, he's a Valorant pro who recently got the XL2546K).
XL2566K* | XV252QF* | LG C1* | HP OMEN X 25 | XL2546K | VG259QM | XG2402 | LS24F350[RIP]
*= currently owned



MONITOR: XL2566K custom VT: https://i.imgur.com/ylYkuLf.png
CPU: 5800x3d 102mhz BCLK
GPU: 3080FE undervolted
RAM: https://i.imgur.com/iwmraZB.png
MOUSE: Endgame Gear OP1 8k
KEYBOARD: Wooting 60he

Duox
Posts: 11
Joined: 23 Feb 2021, 19:36

Re: BenQ XL2540K or Asus VG258QM

Post by Duox » 22 Apr 2021, 14:05

this is why we need a proper review of the 2540k. It has AMA but not DYAC and I want to know if they redesigned it or not lol.

Falkentyne
Posts: 2788
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: BenQ XL2540K or Asus VG258QM

Post by Falkentyne » 23 Apr 2021, 00:22

I found OD: 1A works perfectly with absolutely no inverse ghosting or 'excessive' normal ghosting, with blur reduction/DyAc off (disabled).
1F (these are hexadecimal values) starts to show just the slightest amount of inverse ghosting on some transitions.

15 (default for blur reduction enabled + AMA High) is a bit too low.
Unfortunately values are not persistent and will reset when you change refresh rates.

Boomchakadah
Posts: 193
Joined: 15 Aug 2018, 02:44

Re: BenQ XL2540K or Asus VG258QM

Post by Boomchakadah » 23 Apr 2021, 09:12

.
Last edited by Boomchakadah on 24 Feb 2023, 12:27, edited 1 time in total.
VG258QM 280Hz TN (main)| XG2431 240Hz IPS | XL2540K 240Hz TN | XV252Q 1080p 280Hz IPS | XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN | AW2518HF 1080p 240Hz TN | XV240YP 1080p 165Hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | 27GL83A 1440p 144Hz IPS | XL2411P 144Hz TN | XF240H 144Hz TN

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axaro1
Posts: 627
Joined: 23 Apr 2020, 12:00
Location: Milan, Italy

Re: BenQ XL2540K or Asus VG258QM

Post by axaro1 » 23 Apr 2021, 09:27

Boomchakadah wrote:
23 Apr 2021, 09:12
I'm convinced that the XL2546S that Benq discontinued was much better tuned than the XL2546K. I read this comment on reddit of a guy that had both,https://www.reddit.com/r/Zowie/comments ... &context=3 and he said that the S was better, and I think he's absolutely right. Look at how much better the XL2546S UFO looks https://youtu.be/h7DBqyGf7JE?t=9. (That's AMA high and DyAc on premium). My XL2546K looked nothing like that. You can also compare it to these recent Axaro1's photos
I agree, that's probably because AMA on the S model are less prone to overshoot, the XL2546S is better tuned.
XL2566K* | XV252QF* | LG C1* | HP OMEN X 25 | XL2546K | VG259QM | XG2402 | LS24F350[RIP]
*= currently owned



MONITOR: XL2566K custom VT: https://i.imgur.com/ylYkuLf.png
CPU: 5800x3d 102mhz BCLK
GPU: 3080FE undervolted
RAM: https://i.imgur.com/iwmraZB.png
MOUSE: Endgame Gear OP1 8k
KEYBOARD: Wooting 60he

Falkentyne
Posts: 2788
Joined: 26 Mar 2014, 07:23

Re: BenQ XL2540K or Asus VG258QM

Post by Falkentyne » 23 Apr 2021, 15:33

Boomchakadah wrote:
23 Apr 2021, 09:12
I'm convinced that the XL2546S that Benq discontinued was much better tuned than the XL2546K. I read this comment on reddit of a guy that had both,https://www.reddit.com/r/Zowie/comments ... &context=3 and he said that the S was better, and I think he's absolutely right. Look at how much better the XL2546S UFO looks https://youtu.be/h7DBqyGf7JE?t=9. (That's AMA high and DyAc on premium). My XL2546K looked nothing like that. You can also compare it to these recent Axaro1's photos
axaro1 wrote:
11 Apr 2021, 15:49

This is what AMA High with Dyac Premium looks like on my unit:
Image

This is what AMA Premium with Dyac Premium looks like:
Image
Need to say a few things here.
Assuming DyAc/Benq Blur Reduction is enabled (if it's disabled just set OD Gain to 1A in the factory menu in Standard Mode and enjoy life forever)

These ghosting patterns are impossible to get on a properly calibrated monitor. You can tell especially by the bottom field--there is far too little ghosting. This seems to be caused by gamma crush or processing. I can tell something is off because the second and third UFO rectangle fields look a little too "bright".

The most likely culprit to this is

1) Monitor was NOT set in Standard Mode.
2) Gamma was NOT set to 2.2
3) Black Equalizer was NOT set to 0.

In order to check ghosting, you MUST use Standard Mode. The other modes do whacky stuff to the RGBYCM (red, green, blue, yellow, cyan, magenta) color channels (Hue/Saturation). Standard Mode also has Black Equalizer default to 0, which is the correct non processed setting. (NOTE: Older Benq monitors, possibly the Mstar scaler models(?) caused extreme black crush if Black Equalizer was set to 0, thus once again, Standard Mode should be used). Then check your gamma settings to make sure you are at 2.2 gamma. Gamma 5 is the 2.2 point on my XL2746S, but this ma be different for 24" panels. Lower (brighter) gamma levels also affect the ghosting, but not as much as Black Equalizer higher than 0 does. On my XL2746S, EQ=4 shows a large decrease in how the primary and secondary ghost trails look, but this causes unnatural colors due to BEQ doing stuff to the image.

The input lag issue a few people repored is something else entirely. Someone mentioned shots not registering despite being direct headshots (this can only be caused by some sort of monitor side lag) on the XL2546K. I can't replicate this at all on the XL2746S, so I assume the XL2546S is similar.

Boomchakadah
Posts: 193
Joined: 15 Aug 2018, 02:44

Re: BenQ XL2540K or Asus VG258QM

Post by Boomchakadah » 23 Apr 2021, 16:50

Falkentyne wrote:
23 Apr 2021, 15:33

In order to check ghosting, you MUST use Standard Mode. The other modes do whacky stuff to the RGBYCM (red, green, blue, yellow, cyan, magenta) color channels (Hue/Saturation). Standard Mode also has Black Equalizer default to 0, which is the correct non processed setting. (NOTE: Older Benq monitors, possibly the Mstar scaler models(?) caused extreme black crush if Black Equalizer was set to 0, thus once again, Standard Mode should be used). Then check your gamma settings to make sure you are at 2.2 gamma. Gamma 5 is the 2.2 point on my XL2746S, but this ma be different for 24" panels. Lower (brighter) gamma levels also affect the ghosting, but not as much as Black Equalizer higher than 0 does. On my XL2746S, EQ=4 shows a large decrease in how the primary and secondary ghost trails look, but this causes unnatural colors due to BEQ doing stuff to the image.

The input lag issue a few people repored is something else entirely. Someone mentioned shots not registering despite being direct headshots (this can only be caused by some sort of monitor side lag) on the XL2546K. I can't replicate this at all on the XL2746S, so I assume the XL2546S is similar.
- I used my XL2546K in standard mode with Black Equalizer on 0 (not only because BEQ is buggy on the XL2546K, but also because I don't like using it in general.)

- The S and K versions have different OSD menus and different factory menus. The OD gain on the K versions doesn't have those numbers and letters. The OD gain can be adjusted from 0 to 15. On my unit, even with AMA off and OD gain on 0, there was still a powdery trail behind the UFO. Unlike a 280Hz IPS ACER I had next to it that had a normal blur trail behind the UFO.
VG258QM 280Hz TN (main)| XG2431 240Hz IPS | XL2540K 240Hz TN | XV252Q 1080p 280Hz IPS | XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN | AW2518HF 1080p 240Hz TN | XV240YP 1080p 165Hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | 27GL83A 1440p 144Hz IPS | XL2411P 144Hz TN | XF240H 144Hz TN

fluxxr
Posts: 6
Joined: 07 Aug 2021, 01:28

Re: BenQ XL2540K or Asus VG258QM

Post by fluxxr » 07 Aug 2021, 09:34

Very interesting thread.

Some users say the asus vgxx9 feels faster in terms of input. Some commenting that the TNs look clearer.

I am also curious as to how you guys have been going with your testing of monitors since then?

I'm like many interested in finding a monitor that has a good balance of low input delay and good clarity without any use of additional BFI/strobing. In particular as I will be playing a 60 fps game on a future monitor purchase.

What inspired my interest was seeing this optimum tech video introducing the MAG251RX as rivalling 240hz TNs "thing's are changing. the's new ips are a better option type of thing" but showing his old aw2518hf TN to be considerably clearer in the ufo test to the MAG251RX.

Can't post a link but the YT vid is called "240Hz IPS vs TN Monitors - Things are Changing!"

Ufo images start at 6:45
speancer wrote:
20 Mar 2021, 15:32
...basically the same as shown in Bijan Jamshidi's review.
What is this link of this review please?
djcreative wrote:
22 Mar 2021, 19:17
Hey ya'll, I thought I would update you! I went with the xl2540k and I LOVE IT!!! I don't notice any pixel artifacts! Thanks for all your help!
How has your experience been since ?

uwinho
Posts: 11
Joined: 11 Sep 2019, 15:51

Re: BenQ XL2540K or Asus VG258QM

Post by uwinho » 14 Aug 2021, 17:09

fluxxr wrote:
07 Aug 2021, 09:34
Very interesting thread.

Some users say the asus vgxx9 feels faster in terms of input. Some commenting that the TNs look clearer.

I am also curious as to how you guys have been going with your testing of monitors since then?

I'm like many interested in finding a monitor that has a good balance of low input delay and good clarity without any use of additional BFI/strobing. In particular as I will be playing a 60 fps game on a future monitor purchase.

What inspired my interest was seeing this optimum tech video introducing the MAG251RX as rivalling 240hz TNs "thing's are changing. the's new ips are a better option type of thing" but showing his old aw2518hf TN to be considerably clearer in the ufo test to the MAG251RX.
when you look at page 6;7 .. you can see how i reported my testing between the mag251rx and the xl2540k and even though i felt the msi had a little bit less input lag i actually kept the zowie at the end. the msi never really felt like a true 240 hz to me and always gave me more of a 144 hz monitor vibe with insanely low input lag. the zowie in comparison felt way smoother/clearer and had the true 240 hz experience. so at the end the ips panel used in the msi is def not on par with the newest 240 tn panels. the true 240 smoothness is the thing which will give you the consistency at the end even though it has 1-2 ms more input lag. on top of that you really want the zowie colour tuning for games like cs, pubg, warzone etc

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