Why isn't the size of TVs (non-modular) growing?

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valeriy l14
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Joined: 21 Mar 2021, 11:36

Why isn't the size of TVs (non-modular) growing?

Post by valeriy l14 » 06 Apr 2021, 07:16

I remember when, somewhere in 2005-2007, the first 65-inch full hd TV was released, and then I thought that by 2010-2015 there would be options in sizes 100,110,120 and more, but at the time of 2021 the largest non-modular TV that I know is sharp 8m-b120c (https://www.sharp-cee.com/cps/rde/xchg/ ... ct=8MB120C). And in stores, the largest models are usually 85 inches (what is this magic number?).
Why did we stop?

masterblaster
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Re: Why isn't the size of TVs (non-modular) growing?

Post by masterblaster » 06 Apr 2021, 20:23

valeriy l14 wrote:
06 Apr 2021, 07:16
I remember when, somewhere in 2005-2007, the first 65-inch full hd TV was released, and then I thought that by 2010-2015 there would be options in sizes 100,110,120 and more, but at the time of 2021 the largest non-modular TV that I know is sharp 8m-b120c (https://www.sharp-cee.com/cps/rde/xchg/ ... ct=8MB120C). And in stores, the largest models are usually 85 inches (what is this magic number?).
Why did we stop?
Youre suggesting that TV's should consistency keep growing in size year after year? Why? Did you ever stop to think that peoples walls in their homes dont grow year after year? Just a guess though. Theres a limit of what someone can mount on the wall in their home..

Also, exactly what experience are you looking for out of a TV? I run a 55" TV in my home. At what point do you hit real-world diminishing returns? 85" is pretty big, what else do you really need? Do you want to own a theater with a 50 ft screen? I guess you better get on buying that mansion as well to have your own private theater while youre at it.

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Re: Why isn't the size of TVs (non-modular) growing?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 06 Apr 2021, 23:37

Sizes have grown since the small TVs of the 1940s which were only a few inches -- usually less than 10 inches in those days!

And CRT tubes never grew beyond about 40" by the 1990s.

In that context, direct-view TV size growth over 30 years from 1990s to 2020s was scorching fast compared to the 50 years between 1940s through 1990.

There is somewhat of a geometric cost growth at 85" and beyond, to the rareified stratospheres, but there are niche 100"+ size options that can be obtained by special order -- not via Amazon or Best Buy. They are by special appointment, like purchasing a yacht -- e.g. Samsung WALL TV, which is a home MicroLED jumbotron, essentially.

Projectors give 100" for cheap
Going bigger is easier and cheaper to do with a projector. Why not get a $200 electric retractable screen and a $1000 4K projector, and live your 120" nirvana? I've got a few projectors here as well.

Higher End 240 Hz Gaming Projectors Capable of 100 Inches
There are also some low-lag gaming projector options (including a great 240Hz Optoma projector for a bit of a cost premium). That's still cheaper than a 65" OLED television which cannot even do 240 Hz.

Budget Projectors
If you're tight on money, and don't mind a bit reduced LCD contrast over good DLP contract -- there are cheap chinese-brand native-1080p projectors capable of 100" sizes for between $200-$300. (e.g. Vankyo V630 or YABER Y21 projector (these are sometimes on sale for less than USD$200). These cheap native-1080p chinese projectors are a still a sufficiently wow experience because of the massive screen sizes achievable for really cheap -- only a few dollars per inch. Some are very laggy for gaming but gives you a 100 inch experience in a darkened room. You cannot buy a 100 inch direct view TV for this cheap elsewhere.

Cheap Electric Hideaway Projector Screens To Hang By Two Hooks From Ceiling
Being in Canada, I purchased this basic CanadianView 120" projector screen which uses a remote control to retract itself automatically. There are similiar Motorized Projector Screens on Amazon USA too. Can be mounted on the ceiling in front of your existing entertainment center, so you can reuse your same TV room. These are about $200-$300, perfect for houses with no walls to use a projector on.

So there you go. Your ticket to 100 inches and bigger.
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MCLV
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Re: Why isn't the size of TVs (non-modular) growing?

Post by MCLV » 07 Apr 2021, 04:59

valeriy l14 wrote:
06 Apr 2021, 07:16
and then I thought that by 2010-2015 there would be options in sizes 100,110,120 and more
What is you viewing distance? What horizontal FOV would these TV sizes give you?

A take from my personal perspective... At home, I run 50" TV with viewing distance roughly 2.7 m (9 feet). This gives approximately 24° horizontal FOV which translates to 80 pixels per degree for 1080p content. It's relatively small screen size since horizontal FOV in the range 30-40° is usually recommended. However, when watching TV broadcast via IPTV, the image quality is borderline acceptable for channels provided in 1080p. SD content looks terrible. This is of course not caused only by resolution but also by strong compression. Content in 1080p (or higher) with reasonable bitrate looks good on my TV.

Hence, getting larger TV would actually decrease my viewing experience for some content while improving it for other. In addition to that, having humongous black rectangle hanging on the wall is also not everyone's taste.

Another effect is that not everybody likes watching current movies or other content with very wide FOV. You can see in cinemas that there are people who prefer to sit in the front, some like middle rows and others like to sit in the back. Not everyone is fighting for the first rows. I watched a movie once from the first or second row (I don't remember exactly) in IMAX and it wasn't a pleasant experience at all. It wasn't problem with wide FOV by itself but the composition of shots didn't work at this FOV. I believe the movie would have to be shot in a different way to make it work in such viewing conditions. But then it likely wouldn't look as good when viewed with 30-40°FOV.

All in all, I think that mass market demand for such TV sizes isn't there yet. It would be a halo product and publicity stunt but not many units would actually sell. Maybe we are missing super premium TV brand that would cater for such market?

valeriy l14
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Joined: 21 Mar 2021, 11:36

Re: Why isn't the size of TVs (non-modular) growing?

Post by valeriy l14 » 07 Apr 2021, 13:46

MCLV wrote:
07 Apr 2021, 04:59
valeriy l14 wrote:
06 Apr 2021, 07:16
and then I thought that by 2010-2015 there would be options in sizes 100,110,120 and more
What is you viewing distance? What horizontal FOV would these TV sizes give you?

A take from my personal perspective... At home, I run 50" TV with viewing distance roughly 2.7 m (9 feet). This gives approximately 24° horizontal FOV which translates to 80 pixels per degree for 1080p content. It's relatively small screen size since horizontal FOV in the range 30-40° is usually recommended. However, when watching TV broadcast via IPTV, the image quality is borderline acceptable for channels provided in 1080p. SD content looks terrible. This is of course not caused only by resolution but also by strong compression. Content in 1080p (or higher) with reasonable bitrate looks good on my TV.

Hence, getting larger TV would actually decrease my viewing experience for some content while improving it for other. In addition to that, having humongous black rectangle hanging on the wall is also not everyone's taste.

Another effect is that not everybody likes watching current movies or other content with very wide FOV. You can see in cinemas that there are people who prefer to sit in the front, some like middle rows and others like to sit in the back. Not everyone is fighting for the first rows. I watched a movie once from the first or second row (I don't remember exactly) in IMAX and it wasn't a pleasant experience at all. It wasn't problem with wide FOV by itself but the composition of shots didn't work at this FOV. I believe the movie would have to be shot in a different way to make it work in such viewing conditions. But then it likely wouldn't look as good when viewed with 30-40°FOV.

All in all, I think that mass market demand for such TV sizes isn't there yet. It would be a halo product and publicity stunt but not many units would actually sell. Maybe we are missing super premium TV brand that would cater for such market?
Well, you know, I would like to know what size TV would be good for a room measuring 3.9x3.7 meters.

Now I have a 43 inch mi tv 4s and I watch it from a distance of 2-4 meters (such a spread due to the shape of the sofa and the fact that the TV is in the corner)

Yes, I tried the 90 degree experience, for which I sat at a distance of 40-50 cm and it was terrible, now I started to be afraid of ultrawide monitors

MCLV
Posts: 43
Joined: 04 Mar 2021, 15:04

Re: Why isn't the size of TVs (non-modular) growing?

Post by MCLV » 07 Apr 2021, 15:29

valeriy l14 wrote:
07 Apr 2021, 13:46
I watch it from a distance of 2-4 meters (such a spread due to the shape of the sofa and the fact that the TV is in the corner)
This range makes it really tricky to select correct size. If you would prefer 50" size at 2 m, it would correspond to 100" from 4 m to achieve the same FOV... So you will have to make some compromise and it is lot about personal preferences and content which you want to watch. Have a look at these links, there are some general recommendations there:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-si ... lationship
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_H ... mendations

I personally wouldn't go larger than 65" which would give you 40° horizontal FOV at 2 m and 20° at 4 m. In my experience, 40° FOV can be already quite demanding regarding content quality. I have roughly similar FOV when looking at my 27" 1440p PC display. For example, 1080p videos on Youtube look blurry, 1440p ones look much better and 2160p look even better (and yes, the improvement is noticeable on 1440p display).

But at the same time I wouldn't go lower than 55" size if you want to watch from 4 m distance. So I personally would look at 55-65" range but your needs and preferences might differ.

valeriy l14
Posts: 30
Joined: 21 Mar 2021, 11:36

Re: Why isn't the size of TVs (non-modular) growing?

Post by valeriy l14 » 15 Apr 2021, 11:53

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
06 Apr 2021, 23:37
Sizes have grown since the small TVs of the 1940s which were only a few inches -- usually less than 10 inches in those days!

And CRT tubes never grew beyond about 40" by the 1990s.

In that context, direct-view TV size growth over 30 years from 1990s to 2020s was scorching fast compared to the 50 years between 1940s through 1990.

There is somewhat of a geometric cost growth at 85" and beyond, to the rareified stratospheres, but there are niche 100"+ size options that can be obtained by special order -- not via Amazon or Best Buy. They are by special appointment, like purchasing a yacht -- e.g. Samsung WALL TV, which is a home MicroLED jumbotron, essentially.

Projectors give 100" for cheap
Going bigger is easier and cheaper to do with a projector. Why not get a $200 electric retractable screen and a $1000 4K projector, and live your 120" nirvana? I've got a few projectors here as well.

Higher End 240 Hz Gaming Projectors Capable of 100 Inches
There are also some low-lag gaming projector options (including a great 240Hz Optoma projector for a bit of a cost premium). That's still cheaper than a 65" OLED television which cannot even do 240 Hz.

Budget Projectors
If you're tight on money, and don't mind a bit reduced LCD contrast over good DLP contract -- there are cheap chinese-brand native-1080p projectors capable of 100" sizes for between $200-$300. (e.g. Vankyo V630 or YABER Y21 projector (these are sometimes on sale for less than USD$200). These cheap native-1080p chinese projectors are a still a sufficiently wow experience because of the massive screen sizes achievable for really cheap -- only a few dollars per inch. Some are very laggy for gaming but gives you a 100 inch experience in a darkened room. You cannot buy a 100 inch direct view TV for this cheap elsewhere.

Cheap Electric Hideaway Projector Screens To Hang By Two Hooks From Ceiling
Being in Canada, I purchased this basic CanadianView 120" projector screen which uses a remote control to retract itself automatically. There are similiar Motorized Projector Screens on Amazon USA too. Can be mounted on the ceiling in front of your existing entertainment center, so you can reuse your same TV room. These are about $200-$300, perfect for houses with no walls to use a projector on.

So there you go. Your ticket to 100 inches and bigger.
I recently read the news about an 86 inch (let it be 85) TV from xiaomi and it seems to me why they (the manufacturers) do not want to do more. It was shown that the TV naturally in the box barely fits vertically by the elevator. And the 98-inch model was offered to be lifted with a crane to apartment buildings.

Maybe in this way (perhaps earlier than I think), they decided for themselves that the 85-inch model will cover the market of both the private and the apartment sector in the future, in contrast to the 98 (100) models when they will stand in their mass as now the model is on 65 inches.

https://news.mydrivers.com/1/741/741962 ... =ixbtcom#2

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