Going crazy from microstutter/framelag

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Argus
Posts: 8
Joined: 06 May 2021, 17:07

Going crazy from microstutter/framelag

Post by Argus » 06 May 2021, 17:34

So basically I've had this strange near imperceptible but still noticeable micro jitter for as long as I can remember.

Specs beforehand:
10850K (Overclocked to 4.9 all core, 4.5 cache, 1.35 volts)
Z490 Formula
GTX 1080 (not overclocked)
Dell sd2716dg G-sync Monitor
Nvidia Driver 466.27
Logitech G502 set at 1000hz polling rate
4000Mhz CL16 2x16gb G.Skill ram
1000 Watt EVGA Power Supply
Windows 8.1 fresh install no updates.

At first I thought it was my old 5820K 2666mhz ram system that was causing the microstutter because of inconsistent frame times and 1% lows; however there were moments with my old system where everything appeared perfectly smooth and there was no microstutter. That was with driver 381.65. I already tried that driver on my new system but it did not resolve anything. After upgrading drivers on my old system, the smoothness went away and would not come back even when I reinstalled 381.65.

Even in 60fps locked games with perfect frametimes or in uncapped games with perfect frametime consistency, I still notice this slight jitter when moving the camera. In some games I play, I also notice that near the bottom of the screen there is some tear line but it does not appear in all my games I play, only some of them. It feels as though something is not matching up on my monitor despite metrics telling me otherwise.

I've followed the G-sync guide on blur busters and have all my settings set up according to that guide, including Ultra Low Latency Mode set to on in Nvidia Control Panel.


I've searched for years for possible variables affecting this from input latency to frametimes to power consumption to Motherboard drivers/chipsets, etc. I even tried stuff like editing the registry and using CMD commands for stuff like useplatformclock, tsyncpolicy enhanced, disabledynamictick, etc. I also tried stuff like setting maximum pre-rendered frames to 8 or 1 or anything in between, configuring nvidia control panel settings, BIOS settings, etc. Nothing works.


There were only two times in the past 4 years I noticed this perfect smoothness with no jitter at all:
The first time was when using driver 381.65 on the my old 5820K system, which went away permanently after updating to the latest 400 series nvidia driver required for Doom Eternal at the time.

The second time was just recently when I upgraded my system to a z490 setup. I installed windows 10 instead of 8.1 as there were no compatible z490 drivers for windows 8.1 and I literally did not touch anything except for using a debloater script and turning off windows defender and setting NVidia control panel settings to what I had in windows 8.1. Everything felt perfect and the motion in my games truly felt "real-time." I couldn't perceive a micro jitter nor could I see the strange "un-smoothness" near the bottom of the screen in the games that usually displayed that behavior. 60 fps locked games also almost felt as smooth as 144hz games. it felt unreal.


However, I do not want to use windows 10 as that is a whole other issue by itself. I reinstalled windows 8.1 after wiping the drive and editing the i225 lan driver to be compatible with windows 8.1 (couldn't find out how to edit the wifi and bluetooth drivers though) and the jitter issue came back. I suspect at this point it's likely some weird chipset driver incompatibility with windows 8.1 that the Asus Z490 Formula has and I'm just out of luck when it comes to windows 8.1; however, the fact that my old X99 system has the exact same issue despite having fully compatible and properly installed drivers on it's respective motherboard brings into question if something else is the cause. Another thing is that when I used the provided driver CD for the motherboard, it installed everything fine except the LAN and Wifi/Bluetooth drivers.

I'm going insane from this, I just want "true smoothness" and proper framepacing back in my gaming life.

daviddave1
Posts: 58
Joined: 04 Aug 2017, 17:43

Re: Going crazy from microstutter/framelag

Post by daviddave1 » 09 May 2021, 15:52

Argus wrote:
06 May 2021, 17:34
So basically I've had this strange near imperceptible but still noticeable micro jitter for as long as I can remember.

Specs beforehand:
10850K (Overclocked to 4.9 all core, 4.5 cache, 1.35 volts)
Z490 Formula
GTX 1080 (not overclocked)
Dell sd2716dg G-sync Monitor
Nvidia Driver 466.27
Logitech G502 set at 1000hz polling rate
4000Mhz CL16 2x16gb G.Skill ram
1000 Watt EVGA Power Supply
Windows 8.1 fresh install no updates.

At first I thought it was my old 5820K 2666mhz ram system that was causing the microstutter because of inconsistent frame times and 1% lows; however there were moments with my old system where everything appeared perfectly smooth and there was no microstutter. That was with driver 381.65. I already tried that driver on my new system but it did not resolve anything. After upgrading drivers on my old system, the smoothness went away and would not come back even when I reinstalled 381.65.

Even in 60fps locked games with perfect frametimes or in uncapped games with perfect frametime consistency, I still notice this slight jitter when moving the camera. In some games I play, I also notice that near the bottom of the screen there is some tear line but it does not appear in all my games I play, only some of them. It feels as though something is not matching up on my monitor despite metrics telling me otherwise.

I've followed the G-sync guide on blur busters and have all my settings set up according to that guide, including Ultra Low Latency Mode set to on in Nvidia Control Panel.


I've searched for years for possible variables affecting this from input latency to frametimes to power consumption to Motherboard drivers/chipsets, etc. I even tried stuff like editing the registry and using CMD commands for stuff like useplatformclock, tsyncpolicy enhanced, disabledynamictick, etc. I also tried stuff like setting maximum pre-rendered frames to 8 or 1 or anything in between, configuring nvidia control panel settings, BIOS settings, etc. Nothing works.


There were only two times in the past 4 years I noticed this perfect smoothness with no jitter at all:
The first time was when using driver 381.65 on the my old 5820K system, which went away permanently after updating to the latest 400 series nvidia driver required for Doom Eternal at the time.

The second time was just recently when I upgraded my system to a z490 setup. I installed windows 10 instead of 8.1 as there were no compatible z490 drivers for windows 8.1 and I literally did not touch anything except for using a debloater script and turning off windows defender and setting NVidia control panel settings to what I had in windows 8.1. Everything felt perfect and the motion in my games truly felt "real-time." I couldn't perceive a micro jitter nor could I see the strange "un-smoothness" near the bottom of the screen in the games that usually displayed that behavior. 60 fps locked games also almost felt as smooth as 144hz games. it felt unreal.


However, I do not want to use windows 10 as that is a whole other issue by itself. I reinstalled windows 8.1 after wiping the drive and editing the i225 lan driver to be compatible with windows 8.1 (couldn't find out how to edit the wifi and bluetooth drivers though) and the jitter issue came back. I suspect at this point it's likely some weird chipset driver incompatibility with windows 8.1 that the Asus Z490 Formula has and I'm just out of luck when it comes to windows 8.1; however, the fact that my old X99 system has the exact same issue despite having fully compatible and properly installed drivers on it's respective motherboard brings into question if something else is the cause. Another thing is that when I used the provided driver CD for the motherboard, it installed everything fine except the LAN and Wifi/Bluetooth drivers.

I'm going insane from this, I just want "true smoothness" and proper framepacing back in my gaming life.
1. configure Hardware and bios: https://youtu.be/BWD27dlCNBY

2. install windows server 2019 and optimise it see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV3ZYkW ... el=FR33THY Fr33thy made 43 steps for you to do that. These stepts are basically essential if u want a lagfree gaming experience. see point 4 also.

EDIT. If you for whatever reason insist not only not to use Win 10 but also not using Windows server 2019 ( I don't recommend this. u also going to need NTLITE for this) follow the Windows 8.1 guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr-UY5c ... el=FR33THY

3. test your connection at http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest Bufferbloat not a A+ rating? Get a Edgerouter x for 50 bucks. Setup the smart Qos see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-g2P3R ... on%29sense ( im getting a ZBOX-CI327NANO.next month cause i want the qos to use my whole connection. The edgerouter x can do 240 Mbit down and 50 up max.) see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ5-dc9 ... on%29sense

4. thank me.
Last edited by daviddave1 on 09 May 2021, 15:54, edited 1 time in total.

Argus
Posts: 8
Joined: 06 May 2021, 17:07

Re: Going crazy from microstutter/framelag

Post by Argus » 05 Jun 2021, 19:46

Tried it all and nothing worked. I even installed windows 10 and followed that dude's guides for Windows 10 and got my DPC latency really low (around 10) but still did not have the "True G-sync" feel I used to have. I think I'll just quit PC gaming at this point, even consoles are smoother than my fucking 3K dollar high end system. Hell my fucking windows 10 laptop with a mobile 960m GPU and 4 core CPU with no OS tweaks whatsoever and constantly thermal throttling and terrible DPC latency somehow has smoother looking frames that my piece of shit excuse for a PC. I'm so fucking done with this shit.

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Kertwaii
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Feb 2015, 05:33
Location: Russia, Omsk
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Re: Going crazy from microstutter/framelag

Post by Kertwaii » 06 Jun 2021, 23:35

Do you notice the jitter only when you actually move the mouse? E.g. does it happen when the game view changes but you don't touch controls?
Also you can try win7 if you don't want win10 and win8.1 seems to have issues according to your post
Lastly maybe you "overoptimized" something that starts causing issues

daviddave1
Posts: 58
Joined: 04 Aug 2017, 17:43

Re: Going crazy from microstutter/framelag

Post by daviddave1 » 07 Jun 2021, 05:22

Argus wrote:
05 Jun 2021, 19:46
Tried it all and nothing worked. I even installed windows 10 and followed that dude's guides for Windows 10 and got my DPC latency really low (around 10) but still did not have the "True G-sync" feel I used to have. I think I'll just quit PC gaming at this point, even consoles are smoother than my fucking 3K dollar high end system. Hell my fucking windows 10 laptop with a mobile 960m GPU and 4 core CPU with no OS tweaks whatsoever and constantly thermal throttling and terrible DPC latency somehow has smoother looking frames that my piece of shit excuse for a PC. I'm so fucking done with this shit.
That sux dude.

My opinion on what to do next:

Option 1. (serious) See this as a sign from God to quit the time wasting addiction called PC gaming and start focusing on your family or acquiring one. If i could quit this stupid addiction i would. (I tried praying but did not help.)

Or

Option 2. Sell all your parts and buy new hardware.

Argus
Posts: 8
Joined: 06 May 2021, 17:07

Re: Going crazy from microstutter/framelag

Post by Argus » 07 Jun 2021, 10:45

Kertwaii wrote:
06 Jun 2021, 23:35
Do you notice the jitter only when you actually move the mouse? E.g. does it happen when the game view changes but you don't touch controls?
Also you can try win7 if you don't want win10 and win8.1 seems to have issues according to your post
Lastly maybe you "overoptimized" something that starts causing issues
I've noticed it's in-game mouse camera movement that makes the jitter most noticeable but it's still noticeable when idling. My mouse doesn't seem to be the problem since I clearly remember having "true G-sync" moments with the same mouse over the years. The jitter is noticeable but only slightly when there is no input related camera movement/scrolling. I also have this DPC latency issue despite months of optimizing and reinstalling
garbagePC.PNG
garbagePC.PNG (42.21 KiB) Viewed 619 times
I might try Win 7 but I can't find any good 10th gen specific guides for it since you need some driver editing shenanigans to get stuff like on-board wifi and Nvidia drivers to work.

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Kertwaii
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Feb 2015, 05:33
Location: Russia, Omsk
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Re: Going crazy from microstutter/framelag

Post by Kertwaii » 07 Jun 2021, 23:31

get stuff like on-board wifi and Nvidia drivers to work.
nvidia still makes drivers for win7
wi-fi - not sure, very wild guess but it may be the curlpit of your problems. Can you test with a cable instead?
Any other devices you have plugged into your PC/mobo?

Argus
Posts: 8
Joined: 06 May 2021, 17:07

Re: Going crazy from microstutter/framelag

Post by Argus » 09 Jun 2021, 10:39

Kertwaii wrote:
07 Jun 2021, 23:31
get stuff like on-board wifi and Nvidia drivers to work.
nvidia still makes drivers for win7
wi-fi - not sure, very wild guess but it may be the curlpit of your problems. Can you test with a cable instead?
Any other devices you have plugged into your PC/mobo?
I have a Fiio DAC/AMP plugged into one of the USB 3.0 ports and a PS4 controller in another. I tried disconnecting them both but no difference. There were also several times years ago where I had "true G-sync" with those two plugged in so I don't see how they could be an issue.

After a bit more searching I found a post on nvidia reddit that explains my situation a bit better: " That would be ghosting. You can actually see that for yourself, by monitoring the framerate and frametimes with RTSS/MSI AB. You'll notice frames don't drop, there are no frametime spike, graphs look smooth, but on screen it looks quite horrible and stuttery to the point of almost making you sick if you keep playing. It's the same on my monitor."

I would also add that camera panning/rotating feels distinctly different from idling almost as if the driver or monitor has trouble updating new views.

My mouse pointer is also rather "ghosty," much more than before after several OS reinstalls. There is something that is causing the GPU driver or monitor to not function properly and I can't figure out what it is.

I also tried many many many variations of nvidia control panel settings and Bios tweaks to no avail.

EDIT: I also get really bad jitters/microtearing when scrolling in chrome. Never happened before. It's just a new problem every day for me...

1000WATT
Posts: 329
Joined: 22 Jul 2018, 05:44

Re: Going crazy from microstutter/framelag

Post by 1000WATT » 09 Jun 2021, 12:36

Argus wrote:
You have experienced how hard it is to achieve this. Smoothness of synchronization is like a bar that you step over which you move it higher and higher. And if you fail to rise to this height again, you feel it. It was a kind of accidental coincidence when the bar was very high. And you cannot repeat it. Due to the rarity of such an event, 99% of people simply do not understand what you are talking about.
Since they themselves have never climbed so high. I advise you to be patient. Perhaps you can repeat the chain of events that led you to this in the past.
I often do not clearly state my thoughts. google translate is far from perfect. And in addition to the translator, I myself am mistaken. Do not take me seriously.

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Kertwaii
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Joined: 27 Feb 2015, 05:33
Location: Russia, Omsk
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Re: Going crazy from microstutter/framelag

Post by Kertwaii » 09 Jun 2021, 21:36

Since you mention ghosting and other artifacts from what I understand this can only be caused by a monitor.
Tried tweaking overdrive settings e.t.c.? Does this happen when you don't use G-SYNC?
Either your system produces stutters that in result produce more artifacts when using G-SYNC or it's some monitor settings, can't think of anything else

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