[EVE 4K 144Hz Spectrum] Blur Busters Strobe Tuning! (KSF but better than plasma, has 50Hz+60Hz single strobe)

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[EVE 4K 144Hz Spectrum] Blur Busters Strobe Tuning! (KSF but better than plasma, has 50Hz+60Hz single strobe)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 09 Jun 2021, 14:35

Hello all,

I wanted to inform I have completed tuning the EVE Spectrum 4K 144Hz monitor.
https://eve.community/t/blur-buster-eve ... tion/29085
Chief Blur Buster wrote:As Chief Blur Buster I want to personally confirm that I assisted Eve with strobe tuning. I completed my strobe tuning work this week. Talk about tight timing!

I personally requested that my completion is not pre-announced since this is a first-time gaming monitor vendor that needed to pass through the whole Blur Busters process first. I prefer not seeing terrible strobing happening. I was not sure they were able to achieve it -- but I can confirm that they were able to implement all my strobe-tuning modifications. Now we went through the process and I can trust that my features is now going to be put into the shipping firmware -- I can tell more.

(For new posters, "strobing" is a motion blur reduction feature to allow LCDs to match the motion clarity of impulse-driven displays such as CRTs, plasmas, etc).

So without further ado:

Strobing Works With PC, Consoles and Televisions Sources
No computer is mandatory for strobing -- any HDMI & DP video source can gain motion blur reduction via strobing. Cable, Blu-Ray, PlayStation, X-Box. You will be able to watch sports cable television from a cable TV box connected to an EVE Spectrum, at 60Hz and 120Hz single-strobe

Despite KSF phosphor, less motion blur than a plasma TV
Users here may be familiar with the link I posted earlier -- www.blurbusters.com/red-phosphor -- as Eve has the great wide-gamut color but the KSF phosphor has a (smallish, depending on your POV) con when it comes to strobing. Fortunately I was able to confirm that the Eve 4K Spectrum manages to achieve less motion blur than a plasma TV. The middle of the screen at 60 Hz has almost no strobe crosstalk and fairly little KSF ghosting with most video content. Plasma televisions (even the famous Pioneer Plasma) has a well-known yellow-ghosting issue, and the KSF ghosting with well-tuned strobing is currently less visible than that. Despite KSF, sub-millisecond MPRT is still possible with the Eve Spectrum.

As I already posted before -- due to the impressive color but slow-strobing KSF phosphor, it is unable to pass the criteria required for a Blur Busters Approved logo. However, it went through the whole process for the best-possible that I think a KSF panel can get! However, for a KSF panel, it's not bad. I was able to tune the Eve Spectrum to have significantly less phosphor ghosting than a plasma TV.

But, the important thing at the end of the day -- EVE Spectrum manages to ghosts less than a plasma TV. Not bad for a KSF panel!

Easy Factory Pretuned Modes
The easy factory pretuned strobe refresh rates are are 50Hz, 60Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz and 144Hz.

User Defined Pulse Width
The user defined pulse width is adjustable in the onscreen menu from 1% refresh cycle to 25% refresh cycle, translating to resulting MPRTs between 1% to 25% of the refresh interval. This is a brightness versus motion clarity tradeoff. Metaphorically, it is like adjusting the speed of a CRT phosphor! Dimmer & clearer motion, versus brighter & very slightly softer motion (but still clearer than without strobing). Shorter pulse widths can be great if you use material with ultrafast motion speeds (2000 pixels/second or faster panning motions).

Retro Friendly Low-Hz Strobing
Yes, you emulator users, single-strobe custom Hz including 50 Hz and 60 Hz is supported! So your 60 years of legacy 60fps 60Hz content can be strobed faithfully like a 50-60Hz CRT at both PAL and NTSC strobe frequency. For best ergonomics, keep low-Hz strobe disabled in the bright Windows Desktop (flickers too much), and enable the strobe when you launch your copy of Sega Sonic Hedgehog or anything that demands single strobe CRT emulation! Something NVIDIA strobing (ULMB) cannot do with an external video source!

For Advanced Users: EVE Strobe Utility software package coming
As a service to all manufactures we help strobe-tune, we optionally provide a free skinned/branded versions of optional strobe tuning utilities for users. EVE has opted in. Therefore, I will ship an EVE Strobe Utility software package shortly (0-100% Strobe Phase, 1%-25% Strobe Pulse Width, and 64-Level Overdrive Gain!) for advanced users who want to dive deeper into strobe tuning. Just like professionals sometimes buys a colorimeters to calibrate advanced color, this is for advanced blur reduction users who would like additional optional control above-and-beyond. Any custom strobed Hz from 50Hz to 144Hz can be created via a custom resolution. For example 3840x2160 running at 128Hz with your custom strobe tuning.

Choice For User
Some people gets more LCD motion blur headaches and strobing is the lesser evil for some people. So your mileage will vary. Purely optional -- backlight strobing can be turned ON / OFF. Everybody has different preferences!

_____

For those new to Blur Busters research, feel free to explore [ur=https://blurbusters.com/area51]Blur Busters Area 51[/url]
P.S. For those with concerns about crowdfunding issues, check out my other post first about crowfunding topics. This thread is ONLY to discuss about EVE strobe features; any crowdfund politics will be moved to a different thread. Thank you!

Even though KSF is disqualified from a Blur Busters Approved Logo, it is a legitimate option for people looking for "wide gamut strobing" (over 130% sRGB!) that can still easily handidly beat plasma with fewer artifacts than plasma (even if not quite match CRT). But, of course, if you absolutely hate any ghosting of any kind, you'll still want to go for KSF-free options on the market.

Strobe quality is still tunable to be pretty good (KSF ghosting is less than plasma TV ghosting, but worse than CRT ghosting) as long as you're tolerant of minor red-phosphor ghosting. Crosstalk on many competing brands of monitors is often worse than the red-phosphor ghosting of KSF. Many of us are superlatively picky, so Blur Busters Approved is not awarded for KSF panels, but KSF panels can still be superior strobing than 80% of LCDs, since there's a lot of crosstalky LCDs out there, to the point they're worse than KSF ghosting.
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Re: [EVE 4K 144Hz Spectrum] Blur Busters Strobe Tuning! (KSF but better than plasma, has 50Hz+60Hz single strobe)

Post by A Solid lad » 21 Jun 2021, 05:45

Very nice news for all the chaps waiting for a 60/50hz single strobe modern LCD.
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Re: [EVE 4K 144Hz Spectrum] Blur Busters Strobe Tuning! (KSF but better than plasma, has 50Hz+60Hz single strobe)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 22 Jun 2021, 15:26

A Solid lad wrote:
21 Jun 2021, 05:45
Very nice news for all the chaps waiting for a 60/50hz single strobe modern LCD.
To this date, we've convinced three manufacturers to pledge support 60 Hz single strobe for at least some models:
- ViewSonic
- EVE
- A third unannounced manufacturer

So that's a big Blur Busters win; to bring retro-friendly strobing to more brands of monitors, for 60 years of legacy 60fps 60Hz content (videos, consoles, arcade, etc).

For now, 59 Hz and up, to cover 59.94Hz, is the minimum strobe-support requirement for Blur Busters to authorise a manufacturer to advertise "Blur Busters Approved" or "Tuned by Blur Busters". Some I've managed to convince them to lower the threshold to 50 Hz (for the brave individuals who want that choice) -- users deserve the choice to strobe at any Hz. We are going to have a 3rd brand-name win; keep tuned!!
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Re: [EVE 4K 144Hz Spectrum] Blur Busters Strobe Tuning! (KSF but better than plasma, has 50Hz+60Hz single strobe)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 30 Jun 2021, 06:52

Update.

Eve Strobe Utility is now undergoing internal testing:

Image

We'll make an announcement at some point, and create a portal for the multiple vendors of Strobe Utilities (BenQ, ViewSonic, Eve, etc.) just as the new models are hitting end users.

Strobe tuning is the following in a nutshell:
- Warm up the panel for at least 30-60 minutes
- Choose your favourite mode (via NVIDIA Control Panel)
- Launch your Strobe Utility
- It runs the internal TestUFO crosstalk pattern
- First, adjust Overdrive Gain until the crosstalk is minimized as much as possible;
- Next, adjust Strobe Pulse Width to a preferred brightness-vs-clarity tradeoff;
- Finally, adjust Strobe Pulse Phase until the clearest rows of UFOs are in middle of screen
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Re: [EVE 4K 144Hz Spectrum] Blur Busters Strobe Tuning! (KSF but better than plasma, has 50Hz+60Hz single strobe)

Post by SaberEdge » 01 Jul 2021, 02:39

Excellent. I love the positive impact Blur Busters is having on the industry and I'm glad that some monitor manufacturers are waking up to how important motion quality is, especially for gaming. I think it makes every kind of content look better (movies, games, TV series, youtube videos, etc). Games just benefit more than the others.

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Re: [EVE 4K 144Hz Spectrum] Blur Busters Strobe Tuning! (KSF but better than plasma, has 50Hz+60Hz single strobe)

Post by SaberEdge » 11 Jul 2021, 02:07

I'm very interested in this 4k 144Hz EVE monitor, but I have some questions that I hope you can answer for me. What you said about most of us being very picky is true, but I think we are picky in different ways. I am sensitive to motion blur (obviously a big part of why I frequent this site) but after a lot of experimentation with different displays I have come to realize that I am just as sensitive to stutter.

This is mainly an issue for low framerate content like 30fps console games and 24fps movies. I've been searching and searching for a CRT replacement, but after owning 5 plasmas, 4 LCD TVs, 5 LCD monitors (including 2 that have backlight strobing), and an LG CX OLED I have come to the conclusion that even the best of them do not offer the kind of combined motion clarity AND motion smoothness that CRT TVs do. Obviously, that is a well known fact when it comes to most of them, but even the backlight strobing and BFI capable displays are simply not smooth enough, despite reaching what I consider to be acceptable levels of motion clarity.

Of the two LCD monitors with backlight strobing one of them offers motion resolution similar to the CRT, but it doesn't feel as smooth. I perceive a regular stutter from the low framerate that really ruins the gaming experience for me. My LG CX OLED was a huge disappointment for me in this regard. The motion clarity is decent (not as good as CRTs or my LCD on the lower strobe length settings, but still pretty decent). Unfortunately, it has horribly annoying stutter to me. This is mainly an issue on 30fps console games or in panning shots in movies. I just don't like the motion nearly as much as my CRTs or plasmas for this kind of content.

I originally thought that the reason I loved the motion on CRTs and hated it on LCDs was simply down to the lower persistence and better motion clarity they offer. Over time, however, I realized that it wasn't just the motion clarity that I loved but also how smooth they felt.

As I understand it the lower persistence of impulse based displays itself helps smooth out this regular interval stutter caused by low framerate. I am able to test the effects of this on my BenQ XL2411P. Low strobe length helps create a smoother feeling (as I pan the camera around, for example), but it still doesn't feel smooth enough to me.

Even my 4 plasmas are not smooth enough. They are better than my OLED, but not as good as a CRT in either motion clarity or motion smoothness. My lowest end, and oldest, plasma is actually the one that feels the smoothest. I suspect it is because it likely has slower decaying phosphor. I know that later Panasonic plasmas had faster decaying phosphor in order to make them better suited to displaying 3D movies.

People often say things like "CRTs had amazing motion, aside from the phosphor lag", but if I understand things correctly I would say they had amazing motion partially because of the phosphor lag. Not on the motion clarity side of things, which was definitely slightly hurt by the phosphor lag (I could see this in the UFO motion test and in games), but it seems that it is at least part of the reason why CRTs feel so smooth for 30fps console games.

Which brings me to my main question. Do you think the slower decaying KSF phosphor on this EVE 4k monitor could actually help to smooth the transitions between frames on low framerate content similar to what happens on CRTs and plasmas? I mean, I understand that it isn't ideal for people who want the maximum motion clarity, but I wonder if this slower phosphor could actually be a good thing for people like me that are even more sensitive to stutter than to blur when it comes to low framerate content.

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Re: [EVE 4K 144Hz Spectrum] Blur Busters Strobe Tuning! (KSF but better than plasma, has 50Hz+60Hz single strobe)

Post by nuninho1980 » 11 Jul 2021, 14:23

@admin

One of 2 monitors brighter at 1 ms of persistence:
- EVE Spectrum
or
- BenQ XL2411P
Which?
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Re: [EVE 4K 144Hz Spectrum] Blur Busters Strobe Tuning! (KSF but better than plasma, has 50Hz+60Hz single strobe)

Post by boniek » 25 Jul 2021, 20:56

Does this monitor support 240Hz at 1080p?
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Re: [EVE 4K 144Hz Spectrum] Blur Busters Strobe Tuning! (KSF but better than plasma, has 50Hz+60Hz single strobe)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 25 Jul 2021, 23:54

nuninho1980 wrote:
11 Jul 2021, 14:23
@admin
One of 2 monitors brighter at 1 ms of persistence:
- EVE Spectrum
or
- BenQ XL2411P
Which?
I have not personally measured the XL2411P, so I don't know. However, there are 25 levels of strobe brightness via Eve Strobe Utility, from 1% to 25% refresh cycle, so I would estimate 150 nits for Eve.
boniek wrote:
25 Jul 2021, 20:56
Does this monitor support 240Hz at 1080p?
Not this model, no. You may wish to wait for the 1440p240 model to be shipping, if you want something that supports a Strobe Utility.
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Re: [EVE 4K 144Hz Spectrum] Blur Busters Strobe Tuning! (KSF but better than plasma, has 50Hz+60Hz single strobe)

Post by boniek » 29 Jul 2021, 13:08

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
25 Jul 2021, 23:54
boniek wrote:
25 Jul 2021, 20:56
Does this monitor support 240Hz at 1080p?
Not this model, no. You may wish to wait for the 1440p240 model to be shipping, if you want something that supports a Strobe Utility.
Actually I want to jump up from 1440@144Hz both in spatial and temporal resolution :D I guess I was being greedy.
Chief why is nobody pushing monitor vendors for integer scaling inside monitors? Seems like a such a nice feature, that no manufacturer cares about, which makes me a sad panda :< Who better to pester about it? Reviewers or manufacturers?
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