Asus RoG Strix XG27AQM

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jorimt
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Re: Asus RoG Strix XG27AQM

Post by jorimt » 27 Dec 2021, 09:18

Worraps wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 06:44
Would like to know if this is happening to other people with the same monitor as me because if it's not, it can be Windows related.
Sounds like the display itself. I've had another user report a similar alt+tab issue on a G-SYNC Compatible display when the monitor is using anything other than its native res.

Have you tried disabling G-SYNC in the NVCP, but leaving the adaptive sync setting enabled in the monitor? There shouldn't be a need to disable the monitor option, as that usually only allows VRR operation, it doesn't engage it (that's what the NVCP option is for), but it may or may not enable something else at the firmware-level that is affecting your alt+tab.

And FYI, VRR monitors are typically lower latency than non-VRR monitors due to the fact that VRR requires near instantaneous scanout operation, so if anything, your monitor may have lower latency (less display processing) with the adaptive sync option enabled in its OSD anyway.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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Worraps
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Re: Asus RoG Strix XG27AQM

Post by Worraps » 27 Dec 2021, 13:33

jorimt wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 09:18
Worraps wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 06:44
Would like to know if this is happening to other people with the same monitor as me because if it's not, it can be Windows related.
Sounds like the display itself. I've had another user report a similar alt+tab issue on a G-SYNC Compatible display when the monitor is using anything other than its native res.

Have you tried disabling G-SYNC in the NVCP, but leaving the adaptive sync setting enabled in the monitor? There shouldn't be a need to disable the monitor option, as that usually only allows VRR operation, it doesn't engage it (that's what the NVCP option is for), but it may or may not enable something else at the firmware-level that is affecting your alt+tab.

And FYI, VRR monitors are typically lower latency than non-VRR monitors due to the fact that VRR requires near instantaneous scanout operation, so if anything, your monitor may have lower latency (less display processing) with the adaptive sync option enabled in its OSD anyway.
I am using the native res on these scenarios. Gmes on native res, fullscreen/borderless (same outcome), with VRR enabled in the OSD, G-Sync Enabled Globally, but G-Sync Disabled on these games creates slow ALT-TAB.

If I disable VRR in the OSD, it will also disable it in the NVCP because the monitor doesn't get recognized as G-Sync Compatible. If I disable it in the NVCP, I will have to turn it on when playing a G-Sync game. I just wanted to turn it off for a few games without compromising my ALT-TAB experience, which imo doesn't make sense.

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jorimt
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Re: Asus RoG Strix XG27AQM

Post by jorimt » 27 Dec 2021, 14:13

Worraps wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 13:33
I am using the native res on these scenarios.
To clarify, I wasn't suggesting non-native resolution was your issue. That was another user's issue on another G-SYNC Compatible model. I'm just saying there's precedence for monitor firmware causing alt+tab issues, but there can be different triggers.
Worraps wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 13:33
Gmes on native res, fullscreen/borderless (same outcome), with VRR enabled in the OSD, G-Sync Enabled Globally, but G-Sync Disabled on these games creates slow ALT-TAB.

If I disable VRR in the OSD, it will also disable it in the NVCP because the monitor doesn't get recognized as G-Sync Compatible. If I disable it in the NVCP, I will have to turn it on when playing a G-Sync game. I just wanted to turn it off for a few games without compromising my ALT-TAB experience, which imo doesn't make sense.
Okay, then I initially misread. You're saying you have the NVCP and monitor VRR options enabled globally, but your issue comes only when you selectively disable G-SYNC for certain games, at which point only those games alt+tab slowly unless you disable G-SYNC globally.

If that's the case, I'm surprised selectively disabling G-SYNC per-game ever worked for you in this respect; it's never been reliable or glitch-free in my experience, even on native G-SYNC displays containing modules, a reason I personally just enable/disable it globally when needed.

What's likely happening in your scenario, is while G-SYNC is disabled in the game, when you alt+tab out of it to the desktop, the desktop itself switches back to G-SYNC mode (and visa-versa after alt+tabbing back into the game), which causes the black screen + delay. I.E. the same thing that happens whenever you toggle and apply G-SYNC globally in the NVCP.

I don't currently know of a workaround in that case, since I've never tried that hard to troubleshoot it as I typically use G-SYNC for everything myself. Could be monitor model-specific, could be driver-related, could be both, but in my experience across multiple G-SYNC-capable monitors (with and without modules), it's not unusual, as you're basically asking it to switch in and out of G-SYNC mode every alt+tab.

An alternative would be to keep it in G-SYNC mode for these games, but disable V-SYNC, which means so long as the framerate is above the refresh rate, G-SYNC won't engage, but then we get into the issue where you think there's more input lag with G-SYNC enabled even in that scenario (short answer is there's no technical reason there should be).
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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Worraps
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Re: Asus RoG Strix XG27AQM

Post by Worraps » 27 Dec 2021, 15:06

jorimt wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 14:13
Worraps wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 13:33
I am using the native res on these scenarios.
To clarify, I wasn't suggesting non-native resolution was your issue. That was another user's issue on another G-SYNC Compatible model. I'm just saying there's precedence for monitor firmware causing alt+tab issues, but there can be different triggers.
Worraps wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 13:33
Gmes on native res, fullscreen/borderless (same outcome), with VRR enabled in the OSD, G-Sync Enabled Globally, but G-Sync Disabled on these games creates slow ALT-TAB.

If I disable VRR in the OSD, it will also disable it in the NVCP because the monitor doesn't get recognized as G-Sync Compatible. If I disable it in the NVCP, I will have to turn it on when playing a G-Sync game. I just wanted to turn it off for a few games without compromising my ALT-TAB experience, which imo doesn't make sense.
Okay, then I initially misread. You're saying you have the NVCP and monitor VRR options enabled globally, but your issue comes only when you selectively disable G-SYNC for certain games, at which point only those games alt+tab slowly unless you disable G-SYNC globally.

If that's the case, I'm surprised selectively disabling G-SYNC per-game ever worked for you in this respect; it's never been reliable or glitch-free in my experience, even on native G-SYNC displays containing modules, a reason I personally just enable/disable it globally when needed.

What's likely happening in your scenario, is while G-SYNC is disabled in the game, when you alt+tab out of it to the desktop, the desktop itself switches back to G-SYNC mode (and visa-versa after alt+tabbing back into the game), which causes the black screen + delay. I.E. the same thing that happens whenever you toggle and apply G-SYNC globally in the NVCP.

I don't currently know of a workaround in that case, since I've never tried that hard to troubleshoot it as I typically use G-SYNC for everything myself. Could be monitor model-specific, could be driver-related, could be both, but in my experience across multiple G-SYNC-capable monitors (with and without modules), it's not unusual, as you're basically asking it to switch in and out of G-SYNC mode every alt+tab.

An alternative would be to keep it in G-SYNC mode for these games, but disable V-SYNC, which means so long as the framerate is above the refresh rate, G-SYNC won't engage, but then we get into the issue where you think there's more input lag with G-SYNC enabled even in that scenario (short answer is there's no technical reason there should be).
Yes, exactly. I agree with what you said here. I think it switches to G-Sync mode when I alt-tab and hence the black screen for a few secs, but it's weird since G-Sync mode shouldn't be on unless a fullscreen app running G-Sync was open which is not the case.

The workaround is using G-Sync on those games as well, but I swear it's not placebo, the input lag is there 100%. I can only notice it on competitive shooters and honestly, G-Sync being ON on those games makes 0 difference since they are already running above 200 fps. Keeping V-Sync OFF would work in theory but I get less than 270 fps most of the time, where G-Sync will still be active.

What I will do for now specially because lately I'm only playing competitive games is globally disable G-Sync either on NVCP or on the monitor itself, but I was hoping this would work as my previous monitor. There wasn't any kind of black screen there on games where G-Sync was specifically disabled. It was a MG279Q, FreeSync and not G-Sync Compatible like this one, but would work very well too.

I've messed around with NVCP settings and OSD settings like disabling ELMB, lowering the refresh rate to 60hz, etc, changed a lot of stuff just to see if I could find why the black screen happens and if there was a setting that fixes it, but it keeps happening no matter what I do. If Fixed Refresh Rate is selected for a game in NVCP, it will happen regardless.

It's a shame but it's not a deal breaker, the monitor is really good overall and I'm very happy.

I've also tried using CRU and removing the HDR data there, still didn't fix it. I read about it somewhere that HDR is related to slow alt-tabbing but it wasn't the case here.

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jorimt
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Re: Asus RoG Strix XG27AQM

Post by jorimt » 27 Dec 2021, 16:27

Worraps wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 15:06
Yes, exactly. I agree with what you said here. I think it switches to G-Sync mode when I alt-tab and hence the black screen for a few secs, but it's weird since G-Sync mode shouldn't be on unless a fullscreen app running G-Sync was open which is not the case.
The desktop is still always in G-SYNC "mode" with it enabled, whether or not you're running a game.
Worraps wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 15:06
I was hoping this would work as my previous monitor. There wasn't any kind of black screen there on games where G-Sync was specifically disabled. It was a MG279Q, FreeSync and not G-Sync Compatible like this one, but would work very well too.
Yeah, I don't know off-the-top-of-my-head why it wasn't doing this on your previous monitor.

Were you using an AMD card with actual FreeSync, or an Nvidia card in unofficial G-SYNC Compatible mode on your previous monitor? If the former, it could be a difference between brand VRR implementation in this respect, if the latter, could be even be the case it was never actually engaging G-SYNC properly, so the "issue" never appeared because there was nothing to switch out of. That, or again, a monitor model firmware difference, driver difference, etc. Difficult to say without delving further, as this can sometimes be model-specific; if you don't have a G-SYNC monitor with a module, there's a lot more possible variances at the firmware-level from model-to-model.

Regardless, yes, keeping G-SYNC off globally until you want to use it is fool-proof, but I agree that this can be inconvenient for those that don't use it in all games, or only in some.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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Worraps
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Re: Asus RoG Strix XG27AQM

Post by Worraps » 28 Dec 2021, 07:56

jorimt wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 16:27
Worraps wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 15:06
Yes, exactly. I agree with what you said here. I think it switches to G-Sync mode when I alt-tab and hence the black screen for a few secs, but it's weird since G-Sync mode shouldn't be on unless a fullscreen app running G-Sync was open which is not the case.
The desktop is still always in G-SYNC "mode" with it enabled, whether or not you're running a game.
Worraps wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 15:06
I was hoping this would work as my previous monitor. There wasn't any kind of black screen there on games where G-Sync was specifically disabled. It was a MG279Q, FreeSync and not G-Sync Compatible like this one, but would work very well too.
Yeah, I don't know off-the-top-of-my-head why it wasn't doing this on your previous monitor.

Were you using an AMD card with actual FreeSync, or an Nvidia card in unofficial G-SYNC Compatible mode on your previous monitor? If the former, it could be a difference between brand VRR implementation in this respect, if the latter, could be even be the case it was never actually engaging G-SYNC properly, so the "issue" never appeared because there was nothing to switch out of. That, or again, a monitor model firmware difference, driver difference, etc. Difficult to say without delving further, as this can sometimes be model-specific; if you don't have a G-SYNC monitor with a module, there's a lot more possible variances at the firmware-level from model-to-model.

Regardless, yes, keeping G-SYNC off globally until you want to use it is fool-proof, but I agree that this can be inconvenient for those that don't use it in all games, or only in some.
I was using an Nvidia Card on a Free-Sync Monitor. I will give G-Sync one more chance and will 100% make sure the input lag isn't placebo. Thanks!

PacoTTaco
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Re: Asus RoG Strix XG27AQM

Post by PacoTTaco » 26 Jan 2022, 04:02

I made an account to see if I can answer the issue you're having with the monitor and the blackscreening when you alt-tab. I go through thr same thing with this monitor and, oddly enough, 4k monitors 144hz I've tried.


For 240hz, 1440p and 10 bit color, the monitor needs 30.77 Gbps. If you're at that, then it can't be what I'm thinking, as the dp 1.4 spec maxes out at like 32.4 Gbps.


However, if you're at 270hz, that requires 35.83 Gbps. That's over the DP 1.4 spec. So, I'm thinking DSC (Display Screen Compression) is being used by the monitor (which I believe is an advertised spec, but I may be wrong.) In that case, it's just a bug with the Nvidia drivers and DSC. Any monitor I've used with DSC does that same black out when alt-tab is used. You could try dropping to 8bit to see if that helps. I've returned some 4k/144hz monitors because the DSC bug was infuriating to deal with, especially when it would trigger with things like full screening chrome or half-screening a picture.

That said, I haven't had it that bad with the XG27AQM. FYI, this is why the PG279QM is stuck with 240hz: Gsync modules, at least the one used there, don't support DSC at all.

liquidshadowfox
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Re: Asus RoG Strix XG27AQM

Post by liquidshadowfox » 27 Jan 2022, 17:39

I have the back screen issue (I run at 8 bit on all my monitors I've ever owned because I want to avoid the 10 bit mess that windows does with alt tabbing) and I think it's tied to the 270 hz. If I do 270 hz and I put a game in exclusive fullscreen, the max fps I can get is 240 and the monitor's max hz stays at 240 instead of 270 (which is only available in desktop, windowed or borderless windowed)

niros
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Re: Asus RoG Strix XG27AQM

Post by niros » 28 Jan 2022, 14:39

Ordered the monitor
Cant wait to test it

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Worraps
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Re: Asus RoG Strix XG27AQM

Post by Worraps » 30 Jan 2022, 09:52

PacoTTaco wrote:
26 Jan 2022, 04:02
I made an account to see if I can answer the issue you're having with the monitor and the blackscreening when you alt-tab. I go through thr same thing with this monitor and, oddly enough, 4k monitors 144hz I've tried.


For 240hz, 1440p and 10 bit color, the monitor needs 30.77 Gbps. If you're at that, then it can't be what I'm thinking, as the dp 1.4 spec maxes out at like 32.4 Gbps.


However, if you're at 270hz, that requires 35.83 Gbps. That's over the DP 1.4 spec. So, I'm thinking DSC (Display Screen Compression) is being used by the monitor (which I believe is an advertised spec, but I may be wrong.) In that case, it's just a bug with the Nvidia drivers and DSC. Any monitor I've used with DSC does that same black out when alt-tab is used. You could try dropping to 8bit to see if that helps. I've returned some 4k/144hz monitors because the DSC bug was infuriating to deal with, especially when it would trigger with things like full screening chrome or half-screening a picture.

That said, I haven't had it that bad with the XG27AQM. FYI, this is why the PG279QM is stuck with 240hz: Gsync modules, at least the one used there, don't support DSC at all.
Hi,

Thanks for replying. I've been using 8-bit all along, I don't even have the option to select 10-bit on the Nvidia Control Panel and Windows Display Settings also say I'm running 8-bit, and I also tried both 240 and 270hz and had the same results. Even changed my desktop resolution and refresh rate to the lowest possible and it still results in the kinda slow black screen, so I pretty much discarded the bandwidth hypothesis.

It could however, be a bug with DSC like you said!

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