Am I configuring 180Hz and RTSS Scanline Sync Correctly?

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Am I configuring 180Hz and RTSS Scanline Sync Correctly?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Dec 2021, 21:00

[moved]

This is a generic post that applies to all gaming monitors (which often have an undocumented 180Hz mode), including BenQ XL2546 and ViewSonic XG2431

Your post creates 3 separate answers because your problem is unrelated to PureXP.
isotopez wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 20:26
There was supposed to be a 180hz option via windows yes??
No, there isn't supposed to be.

180 Hz is an advanced user mode, because 180 Hz is not an official EDID mode. However, 180Hz has a PureXP strobe-tuned memory (for the "Automatic" CVT formula), so it will be used if you create the 180 Hz mode.

Official EDID plug and play is 240Hz, 144Hz, 120Hz, 100Hz, 60Hz (and related NTSC/ATSC variant modes like 119.88Hz and 59.94Hz)

Some monitors have additional strobed tuned memories for refresh rates that are not listed in its EDID. XG2431 is one of them.
PureXP (non-Custom) is internally tuned at 240, 224, 200, 180, 165, 144, 120, 100, 85, 75, and 60Hz (CVT Automatic timings formula). Any in-between Hz will round down to nearest Hz preset if more than 0.5Hz below the preset. Those refresh rates do not show up but will load a better-quality PureXP setting when creating a custom Hz (via Automatic, CVT or CVT-R timings formula in a Custom Resolution utility), than it would otherwise if using 180Hz with a theoretical 144Hz or 240Hz tuning.
isotopez wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 20:26
There was mention of it auto-detecting in one of your earlier posts?
The automatic is loading some internally tuned PureXP profiles whenever a custom Hz is loaded.
If you try to use 180Hz on a competitor monitor, it will be worse than 180Hz PureXP on the XG2431, as an example -- because that particular monitor would not have pre-tuned these in-between-PnP-EDID-Hz settings.
isotopez wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 20:26
I see 144hz and 240.
Short answer:
This is normal for all monitors, not just ViewSonic. Look for other copies of "1920x1080" to get access to more refresh rates.

Long Answer:
On almost all gaming monitors, there are multiple entries for 1920x1080 in the list in the NVIDIA Control Panel. An example is one of them contains 144/240 and the other one contains 60/100/120. Scroll down to find all entries of "1920x1080" as that resolution can appear multiple times in the list.

This is not a ViewSonic specific problem, but a quirk in how they support multiple different versions of legacy plug-and-play protocols for resolutions (original ATSC EDID, plus various CEA-861 extensions to EDID, like E-EDID, DisplayID, etc). When they originally invented the the plug-and-play protocol for monitors (how monitors "talk" to computers to tell the computer what resolutions is supported), the first versions of custom EDID were limited to only 4 slots, so lots of manufacturers had to do many hacks/quirks to get more than 4 slots via various extensions.

It's a very legacy-addled system, since today's 1920x1080p (HDTV) is based on a 1125-line timings that was invented by the Japanese in the 1980s for the analog MUSE HD. They are both exactly the same horizontal scanrate (in both the analog and digital domains) when interlaced, with progressive-scan being double.
isotopez wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 20:26
ask because it is my understanding ( and most of this I learned reading here ) that I can achieve the greatest performance/clarity/lowest cross-talk if I use a 180hz resolution and cap with rtss at 180hz VS running the monitor at standard 240hz and capping with rtss at 180hz?? Is that assumption correct?
That is a wrong assumption. Don't confuse Hz and framerate.
Please read this post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8113&start=670#p75643
(In other words, don't read University-level forums for High School basics -- cart before the horse)

You appear to be going a very advanced route right out of the gate -- metaphorically jumping to Grade 13 after Grade 9, or jumping to 4th year university after 1st year university. 180Hz is for advanced users. In my opinion, users need to get familiarized and read up more first.

180Hz was a long-time old trick on many BenQ 240Hz monitors, as a compromise between crosstalk and highest Hz.
isotopez wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 20:26
Here is what is weird. I tried creating a custom 180hz in toasty and when I run that in Apex, the rtss frametime line is way way more inconsistent than if I run the standard 240hz resolution but just cap RTSS at 180hz.
First -- have you ever used RTSS Scanline Sync before at any refresh rate? RTSS Scanline Sync is an advanced-user is only if you can guarantee more than 180fps, so it is important to get familiar with RTSS Scanline Sync behaviours before trying to learn other things related to it. You may be trying to learn too many things simultaneously (XG2431 related and XG2431 unrelated), since Blur Busters is at the bleeding edge, and you're trying to learn multiple advanced tricks.

Manufacturers (ViewSonic) and graphics driver vendors (NVIDIA) don't yet make some of this plug and play, so we're doing a lot of DIY improvements beyond factory quality.
isotopez wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 20:26
I am not sure what I am missing here.
I think you need to back down and go back to the basics first --
isotopez wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 20:26
Isn't the ideal scenario for 180 since windows is not detecting:

- Create a custom 180hz resolution in toasty ( the added benefit being you can tune the tearing out with scanline since you can increase the Vertical Totals and you also get lower crosstalk....maybe I am using the wrong setting here? )

- Then use rtss scanline sync to tune the tear line out ( what negative number works best? ), set the 180hz as the windows resolution and then tune the monitor using the viewsonic blurbuster strobe utility?
This advanced question requires a a separate forum thread to reply to, but short answers to help jumpstart things:
(A) Ideal number is system-specific, user-specific and game-specific
(B) You want framerate=Hz, so if your game can't guarantee perpetual 180Hz, you should reconsider 120Hz or 144Hz or even 100Hz. You want to guarantee framerate=Hz if you're doing quality-priority strobing.

Very few combined HOWTOs have yet been created at the moment.
isotopez wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 20:26
I feel like something isn't working correctly when I try the 180hz resolution for this monitor.
For easier troubleshooting, try one thing at a time rather than multiple things at the same time.
Kachou wrote:
04 Dec 2021, 15:37
Just a simple question, should I run PureXP Normal on 240hz and lock fps at 120? Or 120hz and 120fps? I have read the guides and all, but I still dont really get it to be honest
I will be clear:

Choice 1: Easy Latency Priority Strobing
If you want easy and low lag, stop reading, ignore this thread, simply switch to 240Hz and turn on PureXP just like turning on DyAc or ELMB. Done, just play and be happy.

Choice 2: Improved/Quality Priority Strobing
If you want better quality (and simulate a CRT tube better), read on carefully:

The purpose of changing the refresh rate lower is to improve strobe quality

The purpose of capping the frame rate is to help it reach framerate=Hz.

240Hz and 120fps is not framerate=Hz

You want Framerate=Hz if you want quality-priority strobing instead of latency-priority strobing.

Otherwise, you get a duplicate image problem similar to CRT/Plasma 30fps at 60Hz.

There are two causes of duplicate images on strobe backlights.

1. Strobe crosstalk, explained at www.blurbustrs.com/crosstalk
Reducing refresh rate fixes this.

2. Framerates lower than strobed refresh rates:
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If your latency-priority, you won’t care about this. At least the duplicate images are much clearer than motion blurring, which can help you react faster.

But if you want perfect zero motion blur with perfect zero duplicate images, you want framerate matching Hz. So 240fps a 240Hz. However, the next dominoe is that you want refresh headroom to avoid strobe crosstalk.

Also stutter is more visible without motion blur, so all strobe backlights (PureXP, ULMB, ELMB, VRB, LightBoost, etc) can make stutter worse. Fixing this is also by making sure framerate=Hz, to eliminate stutter.

For Quality Priority Strobing (instead of latency priority)
You fix #1 (Crosstalk) by lowering refresh rate (and optionally using QFT and Strobe Utility)
You fix #2 (Duplicate images and microstutter) by using capping framerate=Hz, using VSYNC ON, or framerate cap, or RTSS Scanline Sync, or Special K Latent Sync, or your other favourite method of framerate=Hz

Do you understand better? ;)
If you want a hybrid of latency priority strobing AND quality priority strobing with an esports game, then QFT + RTSS Scanline Sync is a good way to do it, but it's preferable to learn RTSS Scanline Sync without strobing first (learn to walk before running). This is not the RTSS Scanline sync thread, that question belongs in another thread, and the same RTSS Scanline Sync problems happens on all other monitors (it's a very advanced utility).
1. measure your game to get its 0.1% worst frametime. If it's 1/120sec (8ms), then use 120Hz instead of 180Hz
2. Create Hz to meet 0.1% worst frametime
3. Configure RTSS Scanline Sync to cap at this Hz
This generic advanced RTSS Scanline Sync advice applies to all monitors, regardless of whether you're strobing or not.
It's not an XG2431-specific question.

I wish these things were more plug-n-play, but they are not yet. Blur Busters is going far beyond EDID specifications & industry standards, to reduce strobing lag & reduce strobing crosstalk.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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