Lossless Scaling LSFG + 48 FPS video is insane

[blurfreeCRTGimp]

I have my BenQ XL2720 OC'd to 180hz and I have been using Lossless Scaling religiously for its frame generation.

Since 180hz is 5.5 ms of persistence, and I wanted to see how HFR video could look on my LCD, I watched some clips from Youtube that were frame doubled with AI to 48 FPS. I then used LSFG with FSR upscaling scaling and sharpening to boost that 48 fps by 4x to 192 FPS.

With that many frames and with backlight strobing, it made for a very pleasant refresh rate=strobe rate=frame rate image that resolves 1200 pixels per second in motion with minimal artifacting.

I advise anyone with an ultrahigh refresh rate disp;ay to try it.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Lossless Scaling is one of the best 3rd party framegen solutions today.

4:1 framegen actually produces a frame rate high enough to be further benefited by strobing.

Not everyone likes framegen, but it does provide good blur busting path, and if you had to pick "Framegen Poisons" -- LSFG is one of the best I've seen that isn't locked to a specific GPU.

[blurfreeCRTGimp]

Thanks for the reply chief. I actually just put a video up on my youtube channel with something interesting that I tried. I used LSFG for the blur reduction, but I used strobe utility on a duty setting of 24 to boost the voltage to the LEDs for increased brightness and as a result increased color fidelity. The display feels HDR while I do this. I get the best of all worlds. Blur reduction, better brightness, and better color.

Here is the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zioZMGIap4g

[Chief Blur Buster]

Thanks for the reply chief. I actually just put a video up on my youtube channel with something interesting that I tried. I used LSFG for the blur reduction, but I used strobe utility on a duty setting of 24 to boost the voltage to the LEDs for increased brightness and as a result increased color fidelity. The display feels HDR while I do this. I get the best of all worlds. Blur reduction, better brightness, and better color.

Here is the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zioZMGIap4g

Thank you for sharing! I've been busy lately.
You may want to share that to LSS area on Discord, and the Steam Board area for the LSS purchase (but stay within the posting rules if they allow youtuber reviewers or not), to give it more coverage!

Did you hear about my CRT simulator that I released 2 days afterwards? Opensourced under MIT.

For displays without strobing, generic Hz can provide the blur reduction. I imagine that LSS + CRT simulator will work fantastically on an OLED, though some experimenting will be needed because of the maths in the CRT simulator having some interactions with HDR. Pulsewidths on a Blur Busters Strobe Utility supported monitor will still be better, however, I would love to benchmark it against a 480Hz OLED running the CRT beam simulator.

I hear several software vendors are working concurrently to bring the CRT beam simulator to their software, possibly including to mechanisms that will allow a video player and/or game to work too.

[blurfreeCRTGimp]

Ok Chief I just downloaded the latest nightly build of Retroarch to try the rolling scan BFI implementation with my XL2720 overclocked at 180hz.

Holy Crap! rolling scan looks way better than global strobe, especially with that brightness adjusted soft roll off you have going on. : )

These displays need more nits.

I used it with the strobe utility overvolt trick I had going in the video I shared with you, and it gave me an adequate but not great level of brightness.

I tried using Lossless Scaling frame generation alongside it, and I got a much brighter, but totally garbled and unusable mess. So, I would say you should reach out to the developer to see if he can adapt this rolling scan algorithm with his LSFG post process, because I think running them both together is 100% worth exploring.

[RealNC]

I threw the idea for BFI in general in the LS discord, but there doesn't seem to be much interest. Not enough people are interested. Unfortunately, BFI will never work with LS unless it's done by LS itself. Otherwise it will interpolate the black frames or rolling scan frames. If I try it, the result may be hilarious, but not useful:

phpBB [video]

[Chief Blur Buster]

Vint has been released!

Try it if you want CRT simulation *and* RIFE interpolation on your videos.

You can do both! You can interpolate 24-60fps stuff to 120fps, then CRT-sim to 240-480fps.

It's out on Steam:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3448 ... Emulation/

LSS works with games, but if you want interpolation/CRT/BFI on your video, then Vint is a better tool.
I have both LSS and Vint, great screwdriver and great wrench, you need both.

1. LSS = Third party framegen for games and video.
2. Vint = Third party framegen for videos with RIFE and built in BFI and CRT simulator.

So with Vint, you lose ability to do it for games, but you gain BFI/CRT and simultaneously upgrade your framegen to RIFE AI-based neural-network interpolation. Frames look less fake, if you prefer framerate-based motion blur reduction. 4x framerate = 75% less motion blur on OLEDs even before you start the CRT simulator.

And you don't even need to use interpolation, you can simply use Vint to just add CRT/BFI blur busting to your video watching. It even has the LCD saver feature too.

Two separate tools that deserves to be in your blur busting toolbox.

[DeltaForCain]

I’m not sure if my question fits here or not, but I have been seeing lots of people on Youtube combining two GPUs (even across brands) to use one for rendering the game and another for Lossless Scaling FG. Typically, they set it up to something like this (subbing in my own cards here, despite not having done this yet):

Main PCIe Slot: 4080 Super for rendering the games, main GPU
Secondary PCIe Slot: 6800 just for FG, this one connects to the monitor.

Are there any concerns about latency there? Are there test about using one GPU and “piping” them through to the other GPU? That must add latency.

[William Sokol Erhard]

As for secondary GPUs, that is totally possible but does come with issues.

It's not uncommon for streamers to have a secondary card dedicated to video encoding or even a second PC. In that situation, extra overhead or latency is not a concern.


For framegen and interpolation, latency and overhead are everything.

What you're describing is like a laptop without a mux switch. With a mux, you can simply display from either the iGPU or dedicated GPU at your choosing. Without it, every frame will go through the iGPU then to the display. Therefore, without that mux you have at least a single full frame of added latency transferring the frame from the dedicated GPU as well as substantial performance loss due to the overhead required for that transfer.

This transfer is a blocking process that requires significant PCIe bandwidth and CPU involvement. On consumer platforms your PCIe connections will be dropped to x8 from the normal x16 so you have even less performance available. This is less of an issue at lower resolutions and higher framerates/refresh rates, but at the same time the CPU performance impact will hurt much harder at higher framerates.


I will also note that unfortunately the Radeon 6800 is not exceptional for video encoding compared to Intel's GPUs or particularly Nvidia's recent high end GPUs. The top end 4000 and especially 5000 series Nvidia GPUs have made massive leaps in video encoding performance.
It should be fine for 1440p upscaling using LSSFG's lightweight optical flow accelerator based interpolation as long as you use a low and consistent multiplier factor.


Also, thanks Chief for talking about my Vint software. I hope it can help make video look a lot better in motion for as many people as possible. I'm not sure when it'll be possible to make it a good fit for game upscaling but it's in a great place for realtime video upscaling. While Vint's high quality machine learning based interpolation is computationally heavy, it also provides far far better results than any other options when you're starting with video that is 60fps or even down to below 24fps, as long as its consistent.
I would love to integrate some lightweight optical flow options eventually so, like you describe, you can interpolate the super low framerate with high quality RIFE interpolation up to a medium framerate around the flicker fusion threshold (~90fps), then afterwards interpolate cheaply up to 480fps or higher using lower quality optical flow. Right now it can be done using Vint + LSFG but that's hardly a polished experience.

[RealNC]

Are there any concerns about latency there? Are there test about using one GPU and “piping” them through to the other GPU? That must add latency.

It reduces latency. Quite a lot.