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New 120Hz Xbox One update (high refresh rate, Freesync)

The XBOX ONE Console supports 120Hz+, FreeSync, and 1440p. Getting help with getting "Better Than 60Hz" on the XBOX ONE.

Re: New 120Hz Xbox One update (high refresh rate, Freesync)

Postby RealNC » 24 Apr 2018, 11:18

MrBrown wrote:As far as i understand on pc its required to turn off vsync inside game’s settings (engine) in order to take advantage of freesync/gsync.

No, it's not necessary. It's just recommended to avoid possible other engine settings from being enabled that assume vsync is active. Settings like using vsync as a timing source or enabling triple buffering which is useless with freesync/gsync. Generally, it's best if the game thinks it's running with vsync off, because really, it is running with vsync off.

Most lag on consoles is usually caused by the game engine itself, but it would certainly help if the lag could be further reduced indeed.

60Hz vsync lag is actually quite big, even if the engine had zero lag. I'm not very familiar with the xbox graphics stack, but I think three buffers are a given on that platform because almost no game can sustain 60FPS. So it needs three frame buffers to be able to output frame rates between 30 and 60. With only two buffers the game would only be able to output 60FPS, 30FPS, 20FPS, and so on; only integer dividers of the refresh rate. Some games avoid this by using adaptive vsync (they disable vsync when they fall below 60FPS), but games that are vsync ON and not adaptive, almost certainly are using triple buffering (three frame buffers.) And with 60Hz vsync, three frame buffers are worth 50ms of input lag. Freesync can reduce that to 16ms. A 33ms difference in input lag is something that can felt very easily with a mouse, and still quite easily with a controller.

It's likely that there are games however that do a good job of reducing vsync-induced input lag by frame limiting their output. These games will see smaller input lag benefits, but there still will be a good benefit. Although it might be a bit harder to tell with a controller as compared to a mouse, unless you're playing a game like a "Mario-like" platformer where pressing a button to jump for example reveals input lag very easily. Or fighting games like the Street Fighter series. These games already try to reduce input lag as much as possible, but 120Hz freesync should in theory make them even better, since these games are more sensitive to input lag.
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Re: New 120Hz Xbox One update (high refresh rate, Freesync)

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 24 Apr 2018, 13:05

RealNC is spot on this reply.

Making the game think it is running "VSYNC OFF" is best for FreeSync on any machine (console pr PC), because it preserves original frametimes from being distorted (by a sync method assumption).

Unmodified frametimes (frame delivery timings) allows fully maximized stutter-smoothing and lag-reducing in FreeSync.

FreeSync is asynchronous monitor refreshing, the monitor waits for the game to deliver the frame, and refreshes immediately on delivery (begins scanning out on frame presentation). That eliminates stutter caused by a random-chance waiting for the next refresh cycle. You've made the frame display time consistent, between frametimes and refreshtimes, they no longer get out of sync -- at least within the VRR range. But if the game unnecessarily holds back the frame (because it thinks it is running VSYNC ON), you won't get the benefits of FreeSync. It's simply the basics of VRR programming methodology that there should be no synchronization method necessary, since FreeSync is an asynchronous monitor refreshing system.

The main BlurBusters.com website has lots of articles on FreeSync's competitor, GSYNC. The flagship is jorim's 14-part GSYNC 101 series. We were also the world's first website to measure inout lag of any variable refresh rate technology. We've played with VRR for years long before XBOX. But fundamentally, it is the same general guidelines that also apply to FreeSync and XBOX game settings, and game development.

Also, VSYNC ON lag is still so big even if the engine is lagless. There are many causes of lag.

Engine lag is definitely one (illustrated by the Unreal logo below) but it's only a piece of the puzzle. Drivers/GPU lag includes all the sync methods it does like VSYNC ON and VSYNC OFF.

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Re: New 120Hz Xbox One update (high refresh rate, Freesync)

Postby lexlazootin » 28 Apr 2018, 04:39

So I'm sure if it was pointed out but "auto low latency mode" just turns your TV on game mode whenever a signal is detected. So it actually doesn't actually do anything besides that :P
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Re: New 120Hz Xbox One update (high refresh rate, Freesync)

Postby MrBrown » 30 Apr 2018, 12:39

@RealNC- not sure about fighting games, but games where input lag matters, like COD (consoles), use a pretty well implemented adaptive vsync. So the benefits wont be as huge. I think the rather suboptimal net-code in most games on consoles will neutralize any latency reduction coming from display side. Its not rare to shoot at enemies like 1 sec earlier, then hits dont register and enemy guy finishes u.

Although ofcourse the feeling of more direct response in the game is very welcome, if lag can be reduced through 120hz freesync.
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Re: New 120Hz Xbox One update (high refresh rate, Freesync)

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 30 Apr 2018, 14:56

MrBrown wrote:@RealNC- not sure about fighting games, but games where input lag matters, like COD (consoles), use a pretty well implemented adaptive vsync.

You must mean some low-lag programming techniques (not to be confused with VESA AdaptiveSync).
lexlazootin wrote:So I'm sure if it was pointed out but "auto low latency mode" just turns your TV on game mode whenever a signal is detected. So it actually doesn't actually do anything besides that :P

It's not the same thing as QFT (Quick Frame Transport) but they can be both used together in one -- e.g. Auto Low Latency mode also concurrently enabling QFT for QFT-supported displays (displays advertising QFT support via mechanisms similar to EDIDs). Not sure what the XBOX ONE will actually do, but, this needs to be kept in mind...
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Re: New 120Hz Xbox One update (high refresh rate, Freesync)

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 06 May 2018, 19:08

The 120Hz XBox One update is now out!
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Re: New 120Hz Xbox One update (high refresh rate, Freesync)

Postby SigFig » 14 May 2018, 09:00

Received the Insiders update this morning on my XB1X. Current monitor is a AG241QX.

Couple notes:

Once I was able to get 120hz enabled (more on that below), Freesync was no longer available. Xbox Staff on Reddit confirmed Freesync is not supported outside of 40-60 ranges.
https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxinsiders/comments/8i5zno/bug_1440p_120hz_doesnt_work_with_freesync_enabled/

I had to boot the console into low res mode and set the input to HDMI (vs the default auto detect) for the 120hz to become available. Resolution was only available up to 1080p (versus the AG241QX's 1440p). Hopefully just a bug, but feedback on Reddit suggests resolution gets bumped down if the native monitor refresh rate is >120hz (144-240hz).
Last edited by SigFig on 14 May 2018, 12:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New 120Hz Xbox One update (high refresh rate, Freesync)

Postby lexlazootin » 14 May 2018, 11:27

SigFig wrote:Xbox Staff on Reddit confirmed Freesync is not supported outside of 40-60 ranges.


... at least it's something.
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Re: New 120Hz Xbox One update (high refresh rate, Freesync)

Postby SigFig » 15 May 2018, 13:22

An update regarding my 1440p/120hz problem:
https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxinsiders/c ... th/dz0ugyv

Looking through the EDID (think of this as the HDMI descriptor that the monitor advertises) that comes off of the AOC AG271QX, I can see that it does advertise support for 2560x1440P @120Hz, however, the timings it is specifying for that mode are not the standard VESA reduced blanking timings. Xbox One only supports the standard VESA timings.
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Re: New 120Hz Xbox One update (high refresh rate, Freesync)

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 15 May 2018, 14:56

Thank you for posting that....

Microsoft just found the bug in the beta!

XBox Insider wrote:I found the bug, thank you for filing it.
Looking through the EDID (think of this as the HDMI descriptor that the monitor advertises) that comes off of the AOC AG271QX, I can see that it does advertise support for 2560x1440P @120Hz, however, the timings it is specifying for that mode are not the standard VESA reduced blanking timings. Xbox One only supports the standard VESA timings.
Hope that helps. Thanks again for taking the time to file the bug and inquire about the problem.


It's a public beta. So alas, sometimes, problems happens.

Keep posting all of this info - all of us and readers are interested in this info.
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