120hz and VRR

The XBOX ONE Console supports 120Hz+, FreeSync, and 1440p. Getting help with getting "Better Than 60Hz" on the XBOX ONE.
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Durty
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120hz and VRR

Post by Durty » 27 May 2019, 20:53

Hello, I wanted to start off by saying thank you to everyone here at blurbusters. This is an awesome site that has helped me tremendously over the last year or so!

Now on to the purpose of my post.

I have an Xbox one x and an Asus XG248Q. I know, pointless to have a 240hz monitor for a console but I was trying to future proof/invest in a monitor that I will eventually use for a PC when I get around to building it later on this year. Also, as far as I could tell, this seems to be the only 240hz monitor that doesn’t introduce a bunch of input delay at lower refresh rates (can’t remember the technical term or if input delay is the right thing).

Anyways, I was wondering if anyone knows if VRR will work when the Xbox is running at 120hz. I’ve heard VRR should reduce input delay because the Xbox x uses double buffer vsync if I’m not mistaken. I know VRR works when the console is set to output 60hz but the overdrive on this monitor works a lot better at 120hz vs 60hz. When the Xbox is 60hz and VRR, i can see on my monitor the hz fluctuations to verify the VRR is working. However, when I’m on 120hz and VRR, my monitor says 120hz.

Also, does anyone know if VRR 60hz or normal 120hz provides a lower input delay on the Xbox x? Maybe eventually someone with the resources could run some tests on the various possible video setting combinations on the Xbox and figure it all out.

I’ve read a lot on how even though xbox x is technically the most powerful console, most games fell and run better on ps4 because of the lower input delay and less blur for some reason (maybe something to do with coding, idk). I’m trying to find anyway possible to reduce the input delay on my Xbox and maximize my experience. I’m from the frames > than resolution camp as I’m generally a competitive player (mostly first person shooters). I don’t care about 4K/hdr/etc. I want greater frames and lower delay. Thanks in advance for any help I receive!

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: 120hz and VRR

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 28 May 2019, 09:54

Durty wrote:I have an Xbox one x and an Asus XG248Q. I know, pointless to have a 240hz monitor for a console but I was trying to future proof/invest in a monitor that I will eventually use for a PC when I get around to building it later on this year. Also, as far as I could tell, this seems to be the only 240hz monitor that doesn’t introduce a bunch of input delay at lower refresh rates (can’t remember the technical term or if input delay is the right thing).
Yes, the XG248Q manages to keep input lag low at all refresh rates, not just 240Hz.
Durty wrote:Anyways, I was wondering if anyone knows if VRR will work when the Xbox is running at 120hz. I’ve heard VRR should reduce input delay because the Xbox x uses double buffer vsync if I’m not mistaken. I know VRR works when the console is set to output 60hz but the overdrive on this monitor works a lot better at 120hz vs 60hz. When the Xbox is 60hz and VRR, i can see on my monitor the hz fluctuations to verify the VRR is working. However, when I’m on 120hz and VRR, my monitor says 120hz.
Really? The monitor isn't doing VRR?

This will be tough to analyze without hands on. There will be two competing lag-reducing factors: The lag-savings (A) Fast scanout of 120Hz (even for 60fps), versus (B) the lag-savings of using FreeSync to eliminate VSYNC ON input lag. The question is.... If one could only choose (A) or (B), which one will win for X-Box One? Anecdotally, I heard from others who got lowest lag with 120Hz+VRR, but apparently if VRR is not working, it's only getting the lag-savings from the fast scanout.
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RealNC
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Re: 120hz and VRR

Post by RealNC » 28 May 2019, 10:10

Last time I looked into this, the xbox only supported VRR at 60Hz. If you use 100Hz or 120Hz, it disables VRR. I thought they had changed that by now, but it seems not? If not, I don't think they'll ever implement that then. Maybe for the next xbox generation.
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Durty
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Re: 120hz and VRR

Post by Durty » 29 May 2019, 22:02

I have both 120hz and VRR enabled, I just can’t tell on the monitor if VRR is working as the FPS counter and OSD hz stays at 120.

I wish there was more information on this monitor. I still can’t believe there isn’t a review or calibration profile yet. There are plenty of things to find around the web on the Alienware 240 monitor. Adaptive sync/free sync option is always greyed out but I’m thinking it will automatically recognize VRR from the Xbox and it’s more of a PC option. I’ve noticed a bug with the Xg248q where ELMB makes the picture appear faded. I thought this was just how it was. Turns out if you turn on ELMB and then enable and disable ASCR, it fixes the faded picture issue. I wonder what other bugs i might not even be aware of that could potentially me back. The monitor is very snappy, just wish I could get the color how I want it and knew some stats like TFT reviews provide. Be awesome if the people here at BlurBusters could give this thing a thorough testing!

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Re: 120hz and VRR

Post by RealNC » 30 May 2019, 06:19

Durty wrote:I have both 120hz and VRR enabled, I just can’t tell on the monitor if VRR is working as the FPS counter and OSD hz stays at 120.
You can tell by the presence or lack of FPS/Hz mismatch stutter.
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telesniper
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Re: 120hz and VRR

Post by telesniper » 30 May 2019, 20:02

I have the Nixeus v2 which makes note of being VRR compatible with Xbox One X. VRR *is* selectable at 120hz, yet stutters consistently in Devil May Cry 5 unless I select 60hz VRR (really any game that fluctuates FPS, like Monster Hunter World too). I believe this is the Xbox's fault and will hopefully be addressed at some point because why would it be selectable at 120hz otherwise? Maybe HDMI 2.1 will be the solution?

For reference, I also have the 240hz Nixeus, which supports HDMI VRR on XB1X, but only at 60hz. At 120hz, VRR gets greyed out... I mainly picked up the v2 in the hopes of 120hz scanout VRR lag reduction for locked 60fps fighting games. Unfortunately I am stuck using 120hz VSync which does help a little compared to VRR at 60hz essentially turning off when at 60 FPS.

I have been considering trying the XG248Q because of the lower lag 60hz. I really wish someone with the equipment would specifically test the XB1X with these monitors and settings. The lower hz Overdrive being a huge clarity issue in addition to the latency reduction potential of VRR.

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Re: 120hz and VRR

Post by MrBrown » 25 Aug 2019, 13:50

RealNC wrote:Last time I looked into this, the xbox only supported VRR at 60Hz. If you use 100Hz or 120Hz, it disables VRR. I thought they had changed that by now, but it seems not? If not, I don't think they'll ever implement that then. Maybe for the next xbox generation.
It is kinda selfexplanatory, if you give it a thought or two. One Xbox One X it wouldn't make much sense to have 120 Hz + VRR enabled, since no game out there ever goes above 60fps, with maybe one or two exceptions (which probably werent intended in the first place).

So activating 120 Hz + VRR mode on Xbox One X would have no single benefit, since the effective refresh rate in 99.9+% of all games would be at 16 milliseconds, due to games never exceeding 60fps. It would make no sense to have 120 Hz + VRR on Xbox X. Which is why it only makes sense to have 60 Hz + VRR. Some games will drop below 60fps, but no single game ever goes above 60fps, so why have 120 Hz + VRR... From simple logic it makes zero sense.

Whereas the way it is implemented right now- which is having forced 120 Hz without VRR effectively lowers the input latency and allows for a more snappy feel when using the controller, because it forces the console/operating system into 8 milliseconds mode, even though the games only run at 60fps. It introduces some frame stuttering, due to mismatched fps vs Hz, but again- the big advantage of the current method is the more direct and snappy feel with the controller and also many monitors/TVs have a lower input lag/pixel transition time in 120 Hz modes vs 60 Hz modes, and so the new frames will be drawn faster on the screen, even though the games only run at 60 fps.

If something runs at around 60 fps in VRR mode, the input responsiveness is also at 16ms, and we have that already with 60 Hz + VRR on Xbox X.

120 Hz + VRR on Xbox X would essentially be the same as 60 Hz + VRR, since no single game ever exceeds 60fps, so it would make little sense to add that option. Instead, we can force static 120 Hz without VRR and achieve a more direct input responsiveness by forcing the Xbox OS and the game into 120 Hz mode, so the controller input feels more responsive, although you might get some frame stutter and some tearing in that mode, the benefits outweight the disadvantages of that mode.
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Re: 120hz and VRR

Post by RealNC » 26 Aug 2019, 01:08

MrBrown wrote:It is kinda selfexplanatory, if you give it a thought or two. One Xbox One X it wouldn't make much sense to have 120 Hz + VRR enabled, since no game out there ever goes above 60fps, with maybe one or two exceptions (which probably werent intended in the first place).
There is a benefit for 120Hz (and 144Hz, and higher) VRR with 60FPS games. Much lower input lag for 60FPS games that reach the 60Hz vsync limit.
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Re: 120hz and VRR

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 02 Sep 2019, 21:11

RealNC wrote:
MrBrown wrote:It is kinda selfexplanatory, if you give it a thought or two. One Xbox One X it wouldn't make much sense to have 120 Hz + VRR enabled, since no game out there ever goes above 60fps, with maybe one or two exceptions (which probably werent intended in the first place).
There is a benefit for 120Hz (and 144Hz, and higher) VRR with 60FPS games. Much lower input lag for 60FPS games that reach the 60Hz vsync limit.
Correct.

Also remember that in addition to reduced framebuffer backpressure, there's also the faster scanout velocity as seen in high speed videos at www.blurbusters.com/scanout .... The 60fps frames will scan-out in 1/120sec, reducing input lag.

It's like the "cap 3fps below" lag-reducing trick for GSYNC/FreeSync from a PC -- except it's "cap 60fps below".

TL;DR: 60fps@120Hz VRR is lower lag than 60fps@60Hz VSYNC ON
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