Does VRR(variable refresh rate) have extra input lag?

The XBOX ONE Console supports 120Hz+, FreeSync, and 1440p. Getting help with getting "Better Than 60Hz" on the XBOX ONE.
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jrsaffle
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Does VRR(variable refresh rate) have extra input lag?

Post by jrsaffle » 31 Jul 2020, 22:58

Hello. I am on a quest to find the fastest input lag/ response time monitor for my xbox one x. However recently I've learned that although a monitor may state "1ms response time," this doesn't exactly correlated to playing @60hz on a console. And the response time can sometimes even increase dramatically to 35ms! I've seen the on this website that seems to have very credible test methods, that they've shown the native @60hz input lag times for alot of monitors. Heres the link to their input lag database :https://www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/inputs/input-lag

Now if you click on the native @ 60 hz you list from least to greatest, and the least amount of input lag apparently is only 8.2. BUT I also know that my xbox one x can support Variable Refresh Rate(vrr). And if you sort the column with "Variable Refresh Rate @60hz" it shows a top monitor with 4.7ms. This begs the question "Would this be the lowest input lag monitor, utilizing this VRR input lag time?" The monitor that they've stated with the lowest VRR input lag is here https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... rus-ad27qd

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jorimt
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Re: Does VRR(variable refresh rate) have extra input lag?

Post by jorimt » 01 Aug 2020, 08:21

jrsaffle wrote:
31 Jul 2020, 22:58
Hello. I am on a quest to find the fastest input lag/ response time monitor for my xbox one x. However recently I've learned that although a monitor may state "1ms response time," this doesn't exactly correlated to playing @60hz on a console. And the response time can sometimes even increase dramatically to 35ms! I've seen the on this website that seems to have very credible test methods, that they've shown the native @60hz input lag times for alot of monitors.
"1ms response time" actually refers to pixel response time or "GtG" on LCD monitors, not actual signal processing input lag. A higher GtG number affects how much smear/ghosting/blur the pixels have in motion after they reach the display.

Confusingly, most display reviewers include the GtG (or at least a portion of it) along with the processing lag in their input lag numbers. They also typically take the input lag readings at the center of the screen, when new frame information actually starts from the very top left of the monitor, so those numbers can be inflated.

Actual signal processing on the better VRR monitors at their max refresh rate is closer to 0ms than not.

That said, the reason 60Hz input lag numbers vary a lot on high refresh monitors, is some do a scanout rate conversion to try and fit and/or stretch a 60Hz signal to the higher max refresh rate of the given display. This happens a lot on 240Hz monitors, where input lag in 60Hz mode is usually the highest.

As for VRR having extra input lag, short answer is "no," not directly, but there are a number of other factors around it that can affect it indirectly.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

jrsaffle
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Re: Does VRR(variable refresh rate) have extra input lag?

Post by jrsaffle » 02 Aug 2020, 02:39

I appreciate your response! So what do you recommend then? Should I get a monitor from the rtings list that is rated for the “native resolution @60hz” and only be able to achieve around 8.2ms or total input lag? Also is it true that having the refresh rate set at 120hz on the Xbox one x is going to have less input lag? I know from experience that when I set my monitor (hp25x) to 60hz on Xbox, and turn the response rate all the way to its fastest setting, 5, then an extreme ghosting effect occurs that makes it extremely unbearable. The monitor states that it has a “1ms response time” but we all know by now that’s not possible playing with it on Xbox. And I saw on gpu check that they say the avg input lag is around 9ms. So this wouldn’t be much different from the top rated “native resolution @60hz” monitors that are on rtings website. I just want to know if that’s the best responsive feel I can get from a monitor. I am trying to play as competitive as possible. If you have any monitors in mind please leave their model number. Thanks

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jorimt
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Re: Does VRR(variable refresh rate) have extra input lag?

Post by jorimt » 02 Aug 2020, 07:43

jrsaffle wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 02:39
Should I get a monitor from the rtings list that is rated for the “native resolution @60hz” and only be able to achieve around 8.2ms or total input lag?
If you're primarily going to play on a console, then yes, you should prioritize your monitor selection based on its 60Hz input lag level.
jrsaffle wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 02:39
Also is it true that having the refresh rate set at 120hz on the Xbox one x is going to have less input lag?
If the game in question has VRR support and runs at 120Hz as well, yes, else not really, no.
jrsaffle wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 02:39
I know from experience that when I set my monitor (hp25x) to 60hz on Xbox, and turn the response rate all the way to its fastest setting, 5, then an extreme ghosting effect occurs that makes it extremely unbearable.
Those are your overdrive presets to reduce native GtG, which work to lessen visible ghosting/smearing, but at higher values can actually introduce more artifacts than not. The highest overdrive preset on a monitor is typically unusable due to extreme overshoot, and is really only there to make the "1ms" claim less dishonest.
jrsaffle wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 02:39
The monitor states that it has a “1ms response time” but we all know by now that’s not possible playing with it on Xbox.
Overdrive capability is separate of the picture source and (and to a degree in a specific context) refresh rate. 1ms GtG (or lower) is entirely possible on an Xbox (OLED has an equivalent GtG of virtually 0ms, for instance), it's just not achievable on the majority of LCD monitors, and where it (nearly) is, again, you usually get a lot of unsightly overshoot.
jrsaffle wrote:
02 Aug 2020, 02:39
And I saw on gpu check that they say the avg input lag is around 9ms. So this wouldn’t be much different from the top rated “native resolution @60hz” monitors that are on rtings website. I just want to know if that’s the best responsive feel I can get from a monitor. I am trying to play as competitive as possible. If you have any monitors in mind please leave their model number. Thanks
rtings is about a complete and up-to-date source for such readings as you're going to get currently. They're also the only source I know of that measures 60Hz input lag levels separately.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

jrsaffle
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Re: Does VRR(variable refresh rate) have extra input lag?

Post by jrsaffle » 02 Aug 2020, 21:53

I can't run VRR actually because i'm recording all my gameplay through a capture card. I even tried using a hdmi splitter but still wouldn't allow VRR on my hp25x which I think I understand because the splitter doesn't account for the changing framerate. (For some reason VRR worked through the splitter for my 32"CHG70 monitor, but kept flickering on and off, but that doesn't really matter cause I know im not gonna get the fastest out of that monitor.) So with VRR out of mind, should i be playing on my xbox with the settings at 1080p60hz or 1080p120hz for better input lag? Personally I kinda feel like 120hz/with fastest response rate level 5, feels better but that could just be because it eliminates the artifacts. But is that necessarily faster? But that also means if i want to play at 1080p60hz then I definitely have to turn the response rate option on the monitor down to 4 or 3.

Also another topic i'd like to ask you is if adjusting the following monitor settings affect input lag, some I know but i want your opinion. I turned on "Game mode", and I did feel a difference. But I had to adjust some settings to my liking, but want to know which ones were more significant than others.:
1. Brightness: when I activate "Game mode" on the monitor it brings my brightness down to 80, which i'd prefer 100 since it allows me to see enemies, etc. in game better
2. Contrast: game mode turns this down to 80. Which I've found that I don't mind as long as I turn up the brightness.
3. Sharpness: game mode turns down to 3 out of 7. Which honestly I have to turn up to at least 5 to see or else it doesn't even feel like 1080p, feels like crap since the screen is so small a 24", and then having to play with blurry objects.
4. Response time: I know we talked about this a little bit already but I was kinda confused. The game mode turns this to level 3 out of 5. Which you said will create these 'artifacts' that i referred to as ghosting IF i turn this up to 5 max. But like I said enabling 120hz gets rid of it completely. But Im confused, am I getting the best response time with the max level, and is that correlating to better input lag?
5. Video level: I kinda saw a discussion on this site talking about this, and I think I remember someone saying the video level of (16-235) was better for input lag, compared to (0-255) which looks like the default option. Could you clear that up too?

I definitely know that sharpness probably has something to do with input lag, But after all has been said, what do you think of this monitor? The HP25x? If the game mode makes my screen too dark, too blurry, is it just a bad monitor? Because I honestly feel like Im getting cheated by it having to jump through all of these hoops. Would getting a different monitor on RTINGS.com listing that has the "native resolution @60hz tested be a better monitor? I see some 27" options that interest me and would take care of me worring about brightness/ sharpness to be able to see as much.

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