The real reason why so many Eastern Europeans have input lag

[cybepine]

Power supply systems

TT: "The user provides grounding with a separate ground electrode. The ground is in no way connected to the electric system. Problem: the impedance might be too high to rip the circuit breaker." Common problem high impedance ground (earth rod)

TN-S: "Separate ground and neutral. The user gets separate ground and neutral and these are kept separate up to the socket."

TN-C: "Common ground and neutral. The user gets only two wires and the same wire (called PEN = Protective Earth Neutral) serves for ground and neutral and goes all the way to the socket. The problems: if the wire breaks (and live stays intact) the voltage gets to the cases. The system does not allow GFCIs (until in the socket).

Also as electricity from neural wires can escape other ways like through antenna cables this can cause interference. The current in the neutral also raises its potential that can cause stray currents that go through water pipes, ans especially data cables which can cause interference. Also due to the presence of harmonic currents makes it unsuitable for electronic equipment. This is not an acceptable method on new installations. The benefit is that it is simple, no extra wires are needed."

TN-CS: "This a compromise between the two previous. The user gets common ground and neutral but it is separated and they are kept separate. This is the common one in new installations."

IT: "In IT systems, all live conductors are isolated from ground or one point is connected to ground via an impedance. On the occurrence of a ground fault, therefore, only a small leakage current, essentially caused by system leakage capacitance's, can flow. The upstream fuses do not trip. The voltage supply is also maintained in the event of single-pole direct ground faults."

See the appendix Power supply systems for easy comparison.

3. Safety of grounded-neutral and insulated-neutral power systems See appendix
Power supply systems in European countries and the Russlan Federation are fundamentally different.
Thus, in Europe, an IT power supply system with an insulated neutral is used (Figure 2), while in the
Russlan Federation an electrical power supply system with a deaf-grounded neutral (TN-C) is used (Figure 1)

Video comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4hiHeKhsdU

https://www.benderinc.com/know-how/tech ... stem-types

As a side note, I have the TN-C system. The worst kind, but no input lag yet. However, I have huge and wide magnetic fields and stray currents.

[Anonymous768119]

In my country (central Europe) residential buildings had/have an obsolete TN-C but that was the way electric installations were done 60-70 years ago. Also aluminium was used instead of copper but this is pretty normal for ex-communist countries. Installation in my building has been transformed to TN-C-S from TN-C but it doesn't change to much because neutral and ground has still common path. I believe that TN-S is most demanded installation assuming that ground impedance is as low as possible.

Altought I have proofs that something is wrong with my internet connection, I can't exclude for 100% faulty electric installation just by knowing habits, knowledge and ignorance of ordinary electricians in my country. I don't understand why there are no regulations for EMI/RFI limits in 2022 while we have hundreds of articles and researches regarding EMI influence on electronic devices. When I use my cheap chinese EMI-meter it shows 800mVpp which means average deviation from perfect sine (at least in theory) is equal to 0.8V but noone cares. If something gradually breaks down your equipment, it is in the manufacturer's interest that it lasts until the end of the warranty period, right? Still noone cares.

For desyncers I've found THIS however it's not confirmed by any science article (maybe you can do research by yourself).

PC clocks should typically be accurate to within a few seconds per day. If you're experiencing massive clock drift-- on the order of minutes per day-- the first thing to check is your source of AC power. I've personally observed systems with a UPS plugged into another UPS (this is a no-no, by the way) that gained minutes per day. Removing the unnecessary UPS from the chain fixed the time problem. I am no hardware engineer, but I'm guessing that some timing signal in the power is used by the real-time clock chip on the motherboard.

There is an entire class of software problems, bugs, and exploits involving the system clock. Whether it's set to the wrong time, or it's drifting too quickly or slowly, the results can be unexpected or possibly painful. Here are a few I can think of offhand:

• Kernel hacks can speed up or slow down the clock to facilitate cheating in online games, as related in this article. I remember this exact hack happening in the original Counter-Strike; there was suddenly a player on the map running around at breakneck speeds, gunning everyone down before they could respond.

[dervu]

I also have TN-C and had this issue.
Also had high magnetic fields from many devices (all of them old), replaced with new ones and none of them show more than 0.0 magnetic field even at close distance.
Only places I can see magnetic field with meter is very close to sockets, fuse box or very close to PC PSU.
Also magnetic field will be higher when you do not connect ground cable with neutral in TN-C (it is known workaround widely done when you can't have real grounding - still much safer than no grounding at all).

Not saying that magnetic fields have anything to do with this issue.

[cybepine]

I forgot to add, those magnetic fields cause my PC case to vibrate (annoying noise), always when I turn my oven on.

Anonymous768119. I have to ask you.

Do you use shielded Ethernet cable? If you do.
Have you tried plastic coupler/ground isolator or more expensive Ethernet isolator?

Ethernet cables can cause ground loops if they are shielded. Unshielded cables can't cause ground loops since they have no ground wire. I don’t recommend shielded Ethernet cable cables (I don’t use them), because results in substantial potential for ground loops.

Well TN-C-S is still a bit better than TN-C overall. I live in northern Europe.
"But it doesn't change to much because neutral and ground has still common path"
This is the most important point...

I am not really so tech savvy, but thanks for the link.

[Anonymous768119]

I forgot to add, those magnetic fields cause my PC case to vibrate (annoying noise), always when I turn my oven on.

That whine comes from copper wire vibrations against the ferromagnetic core (in PSU, GPU, VRM). If it's changing dependently on what you ran in your house, it means that it has some impact on your PC, but it's pretty obvious. Don't ask me what impact, because I am not professional.

Anonymous768119. I have to ask you.

Do you use shielded Ethernet cable? If you do.
Have you tried plastic coupler/ground isolator or more expensive Ethernet isolator?

Yes, I use shielded 1 meter Cat 8.1 cable from Router to PC. To the router I had UTP, Fiber and now Coax. No differences at all.

Ethernet cables can cause ground loops if they are shielded. Unshielded cables can't cause ground loops since they have no ground wire. I don’t recommend shielded Ethernet cable cables (I don’t use them), because results in substantial potential for ground loops.

I had fiber, means no ground loops. Problem existed.

Well TN-C-S is still a bit better than TN-C overall. I live in northern Europe.
"But it doesn't change to much because neutral and ground has still common path"
This is the most important point...

I am not really so tech savvy, but thanks for the link.

I thought Northern Europe is a quality benchmark for the rest of Europe. Amount of professional players proove that.

[cybepine]

Do you use shielded Ethernet cable? If you do.
Have you tried plastic coupler/ground isolator or more expensive Ethernet isolator?

Yes, I use shielded 1 meter Cat 8.1 cable from Router to PC. To the router I had UTP, Fiber and now Coax. No differences at all.

Is the router grounded? Or is any other equipment grounded that you plug to it (with shielded cable?)? Coax is grounded. Current may flow in Coax or shielded cables.

You can try this to be sure:
”Check your cable TV (Coax) line where it comes into the house (on the cable provider side before it reaches a connection/wiring box) using a clamp-on amp meter.  It should read zero.  If you don't have an clamp meter, use a magnetic field meter (EMF meter). Does the reading go up right next to the cable TV/Internet wire, and you're sure it's from the wire and nothing else nearby?  Then you have current on there.”

I wanted add this one (more info):
TN-S: ”PE and N are brought separately all the way from the earthed transformer and never allowed to get into contact with each other elsewhere. The idea is that PE shall never carry any current (it shall consequently not carry any potential and is supposed to be very "clean". All return currents go through the N conductor all the way to the transformer star point. This system has become very popular in new installations in Europe and has been a standard in hospitals for a long time.”

[Anonymous768119]

Do you use shielded Ethernet cable? If you do.
Have you tried plastic coupler/ground isolator or more expensive Ethernet isolator?

Yes, I use shielded 1 meter Cat 8.1 cable from Router to PC. To the router I had UTP, Fiber and now Coax. No differences at all.

Is the router grounded? Or is any other equipment grounded that you plug to it (with shielded cable?)? Coax is grounded. Current may flow in Coax or shielded cables.

You can try this to be sure:
”Check your cable TV (Coax) line where it comes into the house (on the cable provider side before it reaches a connection/wiring box) using a clamp-on amp meter.  It should read zero.  If you don't have an clamp meter, use a magnetic field meter (EMF meter). Does the reading go up right next to the cable TV/Internet wire, and you're sure it's from the wire and nothing else nearby?  Then you have current on there.”

I wanted add this one (more info):
TN-S: ”PE and N are brought separately all the way from the earthed transformer and never allowed to get into contact with each other elsewhere. The idea is that PE shall never carry any current (it shall consequently not carry any potential and is supposed to be very "clean". All return currents go through the N conductor all the way to the transformer star point. This system has become very popular in new installations in Europe and has been a standard in hospitals for a long time.”

I finished with any electricity related experiments. Only different location can help me.

[cybepine]

I finished with any electricity related experiments. Only different location can help me.

Just make sure the new house doesn't have TN-C system and no aluminum wiring.

"Noise on the mains can sometimes include spikes of 1000V or more and separating neutral and earth functions and avoiding earth loops can help stop these spikes coupling on to sensitive logic signals (3-5V)."

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/w ... nt.922134/

Who wants to go to the hospital?...
If you have input lag and you have a laptop.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=9842

First, make sure they (hospital or some other place) have a TN-S system. Second, ask a permission to do some tests.
It is up to you what tests you do.

Please post your results in this thread.

[TheKelz]

How do I check what type of power supply system do I have? I live in an old residential building and in an old apartment (20 years old maybe). I have this input lag (and desync/stutter) issue which gets better at night. I'm currently investigating this, but what makes it hard is that I cannot directly access fusebox as I need an approval which I most likely won't get (which means I need an electrician, but it's hard to find a good one who won't be clueless and still take money without fixing anything).

Also, lets say I have TN-C. Is there anything I can do to fix the input lag or is it not fixable and I'm out of luck?

[cybepine]

How do I check what type of power supply system do I have? I live in an old residential building and in an old apartment (20 years old maybe). I have this input lag (and desync/stutter) issue which gets better at night. I'm currently investigating this, but what makes it hard is that I cannot directly access fusebox as I need an approval which I most likely won't get (which means I need an electrician, but it's hard to find a good one who won't be clueless and still take money without fixing anything).

Also, lets say I have TN-C. Is there anything I can do to fix the input lag or is it not fixable and I'm out of luck?

Ask/call technical janitor, he/she should know. Of course, an electrician also knows when he sees a panel. You should not mess with electrical panels.

The cause can also be something else like wiring errors and so on. "Is there anything I can do to fix the input lag or is it not fixable and I'm out of luck?"
I don't have any answers for that.

I am trying to find out if there is any fix for these huge magnetic fields of mine.

With the electrician, we measured the currents (oven on) from the (sub)panel of the apartment. We measured about 9.52 amps at the input (hot) and about 2.97 amps at the output (neutral).
The currents must always be balanced and the same amount of current must always return from the output (neutral). The return current (output neutral) should be always be the same.

Where did the rest of the current go?

We couldn't measure all the wires because we didn't have a small enough clamp amp. Let's assume in this case that most of the current went to ground wires (can also go to structures). Something is wrong with my panel. I just don't know yet what.

Blue wire = Neutral
Black wire = hot
Green/yellow = ground