Offgrid tests - its electricity... (No, its not!)

Separate area for niche lag issues including unexpected causes and/or electromagnetic interference (ECC = retransmits = lag). Interference (EMI, EMF) of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction latencies like a bad modem connection. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI. Please read this before entering sub-forum.
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triplese
Posts: 130
Joined: 13 Dec 2021, 12:20

Re: Offgrid tests - its electricity...

Post by triplese » 26 Jan 2023, 05:02

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2023, 03:27
VSYNC tearing is never directly caused by electricity, it's just a cause-and-effect, a domino effect.

- The power management plan configuration settings can change sync settings (driver power management bugs, etc)
- Another common cause is the automatic switch from Intel GPU to NVIDIA/AMD GPU, because many laptops have two GPUs. The different GPUs in the system may have different sync technology behaviors, and the act of GPU switching may not be 100% seamless and may have bugs.
- In some sync technologies, VSYNC OFF may be dynamic. (Like framerates above Hz on VRR, or as an automatic behavior in non-VRR "Adaptive VSYNC"), and battery power can have lower framerates that don't show tearing, while AC power can have higher frame rates that do show tearing because the extra power generated more frames that simply triggered an enable of VSYNC OFF behavior.
- Conversely, sometimes laptop are currently preconfigured by OEM's to switch refresh rates when unplugged, e.g. lower refresh rate when unplugged and when not running a game. The current refresh rate of the screen can influence whether or not tearing appears or not.
- In certain setting screens, laptop software are designed to remember settings when plugged in versus when unplugged, so settings that you configured plugged may not be utilized unplugged, and vice-versa. This can, sometimes, include sync technology setting (VSYNC ON versus VSYNC OFF), even for non-game software too.
- VSYNC is off
- power management plan is same
- only integrated GPU, so nothing changes
- 60 fps locked in game and stable, however need to set FPS counter to confirm
- display locked to 60p in intel graphics center, not auto, all power saving features off

Approach was to exclude any software/hardware settings, however we know that this is impossible, because that is blackbox.
If office electricity will make same tearing maybe you are right, and some changes n laptop settings

greenenemy
Posts: 35
Joined: 11 Mar 2015, 04:45

Re: Offgrid tests - its electricity...

Post by greenenemy » 26 Jan 2023, 05:15

You can try running Nvidia Frameview overlay and check if tearing indicator changes or fps or anything really that could help to explain this.

andrelip
Posts: 160
Joined: 21 Mar 2014, 17:50

Re: Offgrid tests - its electricity...

Post by andrelip » 26 Jan 2023, 06:11

triplese wrote: ↑
25 Jan 2023, 18:39
Today I was playing on my laptop with plugged charger and while scrolling shop I saw tearing on LCD.
I disconnected charger - tearing disappeared. Connected - tearing. :?
Video here: https://imgur.com/a/kqEAJ6F
Then I tried offgrid test - powerbank with 12v output connected to router (fiber uplink) and play via wifi with disconnected charger on laptop.
Results is great - no desync at all.
So probably, I have first strong evidence that I have problems definitely with electricity.
Then I played few cs wingman on PC on grid and router offgrid.
Results are still better then on grid - little-to no desync, but slow movement is still here.
Tomorrow I will go to office to make same tearing test and then maybe will try to find fluke analyzer (but it cost around $1000) to compare electricity parameters or try to buy transformer.
The tearing in the video when the power outlet is connected and disconnected is noticeable, but:

A) It's possible that this is due to the system switching between the dedicated and onboard video card. It could be that one of them has v-sync enabled and a framebuffer.

B) If you are using g-sync without v-sync, the dedicated GPU can be generating more frames than the sync range.

C) In certain situations, the laptop's power management plan can affect sync settings. For example, if the driver is configured to enable VSYNC when the laptop is on battery power, but the driver is configured to not enable VSYNC when the laptop is plugged in, this could cause the laptop to show tearing when plugged in, but not when unplugged. Even at the game level you can have this type of "battery mode".

Less likely as it not justify the sync:

D) If the power adapter is underpowered, the laptop may not be able to sustain a certain level of performance (in this case, a certain frame rate for the game) and this can cause tearing.

E) You can have thermal issues with CPU/GPU/VRM that is noticeable when plugged in.

Thatweirdinputlag
Posts: 305
Joined: 27 Aug 2021, 14:09

Re: Offgrid tests - its electricity...

Post by Thatweirdinputlag » 26 Jan 2023, 06:33

triplese wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2023, 04:48
Thatweirdinputlag wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2023, 02:48
God damnit. I don't know where to put the freaking solar panels lol! I wish I had the right kind of background knowledge to know what exactly is wrong with electricity that is causing this. Dear lord, everything that comes your laptops power supply is purely DC current it's not even what you find on your main AC line. What on earth is making it through that conversion!
Yes, its 20V DC. However, we clearly see that something is wrong while connecting charger...
I started observing this on my main 240hz monitor few years ago - its lost its fluidity and smooth movement. Some people said that its in my head. Now I have proper empirical proofs that is not :D
Can you try something on your laptop, Just to further prove evidence? Copy the unplugged power scheme and all its settings and paste it on the plugged in power scheme? preferably through Regedit, is that possible? Just to make sure its not some sort of idiotic Microsoft plugged in vs unplugged power settings.
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Eonds
Posts: 262
Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 10:34

Re: Offgrid tests - its electricity...

Post by Eonds » 26 Jan 2023, 15:05

triplese wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2023, 04:48
Thatweirdinputlag wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2023, 02:48
God damnit. I don't know where to put the freaking solar panels lol! I wish I had the right kind of background knowledge to know what exactly is wrong with electricity that is causing this. Dear lord, everything that comes your laptops power supply is purely DC current it's not even what you find on your main AC line. What on earth is making it through that conversion!
Yes, its 20V DC. However, we clearly see that something is wrong while connecting charger...
I started observing this on my main 240hz monitor few years ago - its lost its fluidity and smooth movement. Some people said that its in my head. Now I have proper empirical proofs that is not :D
Constant voltage transformer didn't really do much. Way too loud, way too hot. Maybe increased smoothness? But still heavy ass mouse input. Going to revisit my notes where I documented things related to software/firmware.

texre
Posts: 195
Joined: 05 Apr 2022, 18:58

Re: Offgrid tests - its electricity...

Post by texre » 26 Jan 2023, 18:01

I’m pretty sure the monitor gets more affected by electricity than the pc itself. Does anybody know if it’s more sensitive than a pc?

triplese
Posts: 130
Joined: 13 Dec 2021, 12:20

Re: Offgrid tests - its electricity...

Post by triplese » 26 Jan 2023, 18:05

greenenemy wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2023, 05:15
You can try running Nvidia Frameview overlay and check if tearing indicator changes or fps or anything really that could help to explain this.
Is it working on intel onboard GPU?

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Offgrid tests - its electricity...

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 26 Jan 2023, 21:37

Fiber routers connected to bad electricity. Hmm. And routers are essentially standalone computers themselves.

Powering a fiber optic router from a powerbank, nontheless is an interesting concept. A router's chipset can transfer interference from bad electricity into the Ethernet itself, or various processing difficulties (e.g. interference creating various error-correction slowdown effects in the fiber optic router's CPU). Also other dominoe effects, like an overheating built-in switching power supplies (that's working harder to process dirty electricity) causing thermal throttling in a router CPU. Or other incidential lag/desync effects as dominoe effects from mediocre AC waveforms entering any router's power supply (even fiber optic routers).

The goodness/badness of electricity generally has no effect on tearing, unless it's a domino effect like framerate slowdowns (from bad-electricity-triggered error correction (ECC) storms or such), whereupon it Rube-Goldberg cascades into framerate crossing a sync technology threshold (e.g. above/below VRR max Hz, or other related thing), then thusly triggering tearing from badness of electricity. But still a massive multi-step Rube Goldberg domino effect, and never directly. That'd be still be considered a cause-and-effect.
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Thatweirdinputlag
Posts: 305
Joined: 27 Aug 2021, 14:09

Re: Offgrid tests - its electricity...

Post by Thatweirdinputlag » 27 Jan 2023, 01:38

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2023, 21:37
Fiber routers connected to bad electricity. Hmm. And routers are essentially standalone computers themselves.
I've also shared this before, The reason why this topic got me intrigued is the results a guy had from using linear lab power supply with his modem instead of the switch-mode that comes with it. The guy claimed that: "the lab power supply gave a notable improvment. Connection rate improved from 17.6 to 18.5 Mbps; at the same time FEC errors were much reduced, and the S/N ratio improved by a few dB over almost the whole spectrum.". I'm also assuming that his lab power supply is also grounded, unlike most of the ISP distributed Modems/Routers.

Link to post: https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=23488.0
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greenenemy
Posts: 35
Joined: 11 Mar 2015, 04:45

Re: Offgrid tests - its electricity...

Post by greenenemy » 27 Jan 2023, 07:42

triplese wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2023, 18:05
greenenemy wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2023, 05:15
You can try running Nvidia Frameview overlay and check if tearing indicator changes or fps or anything really that could help to explain this.
Is it working on intel onboard GPU?
It should work.

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