Where is the evidence?

Separate area for niche lag issues including unexpected causes and/or electromagnetic interference (ECC = retransmits = lag). Interference (EMI, EMF) of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction latencies like a bad modem connection. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI. Please read this before entering sub-forum.
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IMPORTANT:
This subforum is for advanced users only. This separate area is for niche or unexpected lag issues such as electromagnetic interference (EMI, EMF, electrical, radiofrequency, etc). Interference of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction (ECC) latencies like a bad modem connection, except internally in a circuit. ECC = retransmits = lag. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI.
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triplese
Posts: 130
Joined: 13 Dec 2021, 12:20

Re: Where is the evidence?

Post by triplese » 27 Jan 2023, 17:21

Future wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 16:55
And because it seems everyone avoids my questions, one more time:

1. Why do pro players have never experienced such an issue when they change appartments, hotels and bootcamps so often?
2. Do you think that all the places they have been were with perfect electricity and without any EMI/RFI?
3. If bad electricity or EMI/RFI were the problems, why can't you reproduce the issue somewhere where it doesn't exist?
4. Where is the evidence that even if the electricity is bad or there is EMI/RFI it would cause exactly that kind of a problem?
5. How come you played with the same electricity when you had no input lag and all of a sudden it started causing this particular problem? I mean, obviously the input lag hasn't appeared from nowhere. It wasn't there before, otherwise how would you know you have input lag?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FvyhIbfc74

Here you can see a young pro player from Navi junior asked on stream about input lag. Shortly, what he says is that he has never heard of any pro player complaining about something like that. He also says that he changed more places than you could imagine and he never had that problem nowhere. Now tell me, whom do I have to believe? Random people on the internet who spread non-sense theories how they moved their wardrobe in the other corner of the room and that fixed their input lag or pro players who earn their money, playing the games I play?
1. Because pro players living in not low-cost apartments. Google their salary and you will have no questions. s1mple pays for dedicated internet $400 and still it lags :D
Hotels and bootcamps probably have better electricity and/or internet that any apartments.
2. I dont have proplayers in my city, however I have chatted with navi admin and he told me that they dont use any internet hacks (like qos) or special windows/bios setups etc on their bootcamp. So probably, yes.
3. Because you need to a) find whats exactly wrong - electricity, or something else b) measure some parameter of that which causing such behavior. At this moment nobody knows what causing that and what meter will measure that. If you know root cause its will be easy to replicate and mitigate. Even replicate with some levels, like light desync/mid desync/high desync/extreme.
4. Read above
5. I played at high levels in csgo (LEM) and mid faceit (6), then I started losing 1-2 ranks per day and constant "54 in 2 hits" desync while receiving 7-9 shots. In bad day I lost all way to silver elite, that cannot possible even playing drunk on wheel instead mouse. Peeks with higher speed than it possible in game, enemies have about 0.5 to 1 second handicap. So at low skill you have some competition, at high levels with such cap you have any chances, like anybody wallhacking against you. But then on team cam you see that enemies play like regular people without 5ms reaction.

Future
Posts: 51
Joined: 06 Dec 2022, 07:04

Re: Where is the evidence?

Post by Future » 27 Jan 2023, 17:54

triplese wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 17:21
Future wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 16:55
And because it seems everyone avoids my questions, one more time:

1. Why do pro players have never experienced such an issue when they change appartments, hotels and bootcamps so often?
2. Do you think that all the places they have been were with perfect electricity and without any EMI/RFI?
3. If bad electricity or EMI/RFI were the problems, why can't you reproduce the issue somewhere where it doesn't exist?
4. Where is the evidence that even if the electricity is bad or there is EMI/RFI it would cause exactly that kind of a problem?
5. How come you played with the same electricity when you had no input lag and all of a sudden it started causing this particular problem? I mean, obviously the input lag hasn't appeared from nowhere. It wasn't there before, otherwise how would you know you have input lag?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FvyhIbfc74

Here you can see a young pro player from Navi junior asked on stream about input lag. Shortly, what he says is that he has never heard of any pro player complaining about something like that. He also says that he changed more places than you could imagine and he never had that problem nowhere. Now tell me, whom do I have to believe? Random people on the internet who spread non-sense theories how they moved their wardrobe in the other corner of the room and that fixed their input lag or pro players who earn their money, playing the games I play?
1. Because pro players living in not low-cost apartments. Google their salary and you will have no questions. s1mple pays for dedicated internet $400 and still it lags :D
Hotels and bootcamps probably have better electricity and/or internet that any apartments.
2. I dont have proplayers in my city, however I have chatted with navi admin and he told me that they dont use any internet hacks (like qos) or special windows/bios setups etc on their bootcamp. So probably, yes.
3. Because you need to a) find whats exactly wrong - electricity, or something else b) measure some parameter of that which causing such behavior. At this moment nobody knows what causing that and what meter will measure that. If you know root cause its will be easy to replicate and mitigate. Even replicate with some levels, like light desync/mid desync/high desync/extreme.
4. Read above
5. I played at high levels in csgo (LEM) and mid faceit (6), then I started losing 1-2 ranks per day and constant "54 in 2 hits" desync while receiving 7-9 shots. In bad day I lost all way to silver elite, that cannot possible even playing drunk on wheel instead mouse. Peeks with higher speed than it possible in game, enemies have about 0.5 to 1 second handicap. So at low skill you have some competition, at high levels with such cap you have any chances, like anybody wallhacking against you. But then on team cam you see that enemies play like regular people without 5ms reaction.
1. What makes you think that those of us who have the problem live in low-cost apartments? I can ensure you that my house has no electricity problems at all, yet I have all the symptoms you describe and you claim it's electricity related. Also why do 10 out of 10 people here moved to new aparments and hotels and they have the same issues there too? Why has the guy from the video never had the problem when he lived with his parrents in his old house in Ukralne? How ffs if it was electricity related it wouldn't cause the same symptoms to everybody who plays from an old aparment or house with old wires and no grounding?

2. What internet hacks and QOS are you talking about when my question is "Do you think that all the places they have been were with perfect electricity and without any EMI/RFI?"

3. Then what stops you to go to a place where pro players had a tournament or bootcamp and try to play from there? What stops you to go to a newly built aparment or building idk, where supposably you won't have the issue and prove your theory?

4. What do I have to read above and where is the evidence that even with bad electricity or EMI/RFI you would have this particular issue?

5. I don't want to offend you, but your ranks are showing that obviously you are not as skilled as you claim you are. Everything you describe in point "5" can be classified as an ISP/server related problem.

assombrosso
Posts: 279
Joined: 29 Nov 2021, 10:34

Re: Where is the evidence?

Post by assombrosso » 27 Jan 2023, 18:36

There is many evidence, I know couple of people who used a gas generator and it fixed lag 100%. There is a guy who also fixed his lag by hiring an EMC company that deal with these issues and they manage to find a cell tower that was emitting signals that caused the lag, they fixed it and lag was gone. There was also a pro team of 5 who had these issues and manage to fix them by replacing their smart meter with analog, they made a post here months ago can’t find it. I personally experienced lag/no lag after reinstalling windows, every single game I played after windows reinstall, I was going 30 kills or more, everything was better and faster.

Now here’s the question that you should ask, how many ppl are affected by this and to what extinct they are affected by it? I say it’s more than we expect , I bet maybe 50% of ppl have it but the severity at which it affect them varies, many ppl play with lag from day 1 so they have no clue they have it. All these pro streamers have 0 clue about pc’a and latency , they are just lucky.

Future
Posts: 51
Joined: 06 Dec 2022, 07:04

Re: Where is the evidence?

Post by Future » 27 Jan 2023, 19:12

assombrosso wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 18:36
There is many evidence, I know couple of people who used a gas generator and it fixed lag 100%. There is a guy who also fixed his lag by hiring an EMC company that deal with these issues and they manage to find a cell tower that was emitting signals that caused the lag, they fixed it and lag was gone.
See, that's exactly the problem. That's a claim, not evidence. How can you be sure that their input lag was fixed? What if they lied? And why do you need gas generators and EMC companies, when you literally can bring your pc to a friend who doesn't have the problem and see if it persists there too?
assombrosso wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 18:36
There was also a pro team of 5 who had these issues and manage to fix them by replacing their smart meter with analog, they made a post here months ago can’t find it.
I am really interested in this, please find that and let's see which pro team was that. Seems like another troll post to me. By the way my meter is analog too.
assombrosso wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 18:36
I personally experienced lag/no lag after reinstalling windows, every single game I played after windows reinstall, I was going 30 kills or more, everything was better and faster.
Same here and before few weeks I borrowed an old PC where I installed Windows XP and to my surprise the input lag was not present. After that I tried Win 7, 8 and 8.1 and the input lag was present everywhere. Even on 7 with DWM disabled. Also if your problem goes away after win reinstall what does that mean to you? :)
assombrosso wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 18:36
Now here’s the question that you should ask, how many ppl are affected by this and to what extinct they are affected by it? I say it’s more than we expect , I bet maybe 50% of ppl have it but the severity at which it affect them varies, many ppl play with lag from day 1 so they have no clue they have it. All these pro streamers have 0 clue about pc’a and latency , they are just lucky.
I don't know, literally noone I know has that issue except me. And when I'm telling my buddies I have such an issue they don't believe me which is understandable. If that many people had the problem it would've gone viral, so no, that's not true at all. Trust me, if pro player or streamer who plays a game for a living has an input lag problem, he would've seen and understand it way faster than a casual gamer like the guy above with the faceit level 6. The lack of knowledge about pcs and latencies doesn't necessairly mean that these people are unable to make a difference when the game runs fine and when it runs bad. In fact they are the first one who will probably notice it.

If the whole electricity, EMI/RFI theory was true, then there would be no person on this planet who could play this game normal. There are interferences everywhere. If it was electricity, no person in old house/apartment would be able to play normally, which is not the case. For example I have a friend who lives in a flat on the last floor, and on the roof there is a very big antenna. The whole building was probably built around 1980 and a single cable hasn't been changed since then. He has tons of RGB and old electrical devices at home and if you go to measure his EMI/RFI or electrical stuff you would ask how he hasn't exploded until now. Yet his game runs fluently and he was playing 4k elo games until last year when he stopped playing CS.

triplese
Posts: 130
Joined: 13 Dec 2021, 12:20

Re: Where is the evidence?

Post by triplese » 27 Jan 2023, 19:52

Future wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 17:54
1. What makes you think that those of us who have the problem live in low-cost apartments? I can ensure you that my house has no electricity problems at all, yet I have all the symptoms you describe and you claim it's electricity related. Also why do 10 out of 10 people here moved to new aparments and hotels and they have the same issues there too? Why has the guy from the video never had the problem when he lived with his parrents in his old house in Ukralne? How ffs if it was electricity related it wouldn't cause the same symptoms to everybody who plays from an old aparment or house with old wires and no grounding?

2. What internet hacks and QOS are you talking about when my question is "Do you think that all the places they have been were with perfect electricity and without any EMI/RFI?"

3. Then what stops you to go to a place where pro players had a tournament or bootcamp and try to play from there? What stops you to go to a newly built aparment or building idk, where supposably you won't have the issue and prove your theory?

4. What do I have to read above and where is the evidence that even with bad electricity or EMI/RFI you would have this particular issue?

5. I don't want to offend you, but your ranks are showing that obviously you are not as skilled as you claim you are. Everything you describe in point "5" can be classified as an ISP/server related problem.
1. Its cause. I'm living in Ukralne in 2 second big city in old (~1960) building and almost 3 years ago suddenly lag started. And I dont have it in ~2010 builded office.

2. If you questioning for something, be patient to read full answer pls. Admin of pro team says that they dont using any hardware/software etc and dont have any lags. "So probably, yes." However, I personally still not believe in EFI/RFI.

3. War in Ukralne lol. Get in Katowice Arena with all your gear not so easy. BTW, read second sentence of 1 point - its already checked.

4. "At this moment nobody knows what causing that and what meter will measure that. If you know root cause its will be easy to replicate and mitigate."

5. So you says that playing 4k hours soloq on LEM without sweating on each shot and then losing ranks sitting full focus to silver is OK? I dont think so. With 240hz monitor before lag I had some advantage, maybe 50-100 ms to flick and click. But there was advantage even versus faceit lvl10, I has clips with my clutches on local tournaments.
Many people here had 10 lvl faceit and same problem.
Server related problem - which server? Valve Poland, Vienna, Amster, Germany or faceit Germany? Which server is fault? :lol:
And if this is server problem - why any other game have same behaviour?
ISP - possibility of that is ~1%. 2 different ISPs with different routes, different pings, and one of them is same which I have in office (where I dont have lag) and fiber link was installed personally for my apartments directly from ISP, which is not so easy.
Even if I'm unlucky and both my ISP is faulty - how about people in Europe who have same problems and different ISPs? All ISPs faulty? Or not all, because you playing normally, yes?
Future wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 19:12
Same here and before few weeks I borrowed an old PC where I installed Windows XP and to my surprise the input lag was not present. After that I tried Win 7, 8 and 8.1 and the input lag was present everywhere. Even on 7 with DWM disabled. Also if your problem goes away after win reinstall what does that mean to you? :)
You are speaking about <50ms windows+whole system lag, which is kind of normal. We are speaking about >500ms lag, while you see on your screen normal image, but just only >500ms behind the server.

assombrosso
Posts: 279
Joined: 29 Nov 2021, 10:34

Re: Where is the evidence?

Post by assombrosso » 27 Jan 2023, 23:43

What answer do you want to hear ? This is what this thread is about . Are you trying to say that these latencies observed by us aren’t real ? And that we are making them up in our heads? Lol but why would we do that ? And why would these people lie

MegaMelmek
Posts: 235
Joined: 21 Jan 2021, 12:54

Re: Where is the evidence?

Post by MegaMelmek » 28 Jan 2023, 02:47

assombrosso wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 23:43
What answer do you want to hear ? This is what this thread is about . Are you trying to say that these latencies observed by us aren’t real ? And that we are making them up in our heads? Lol but why would we do that ? And why would these people lie
That is exactly on point 👏👏👏👏

Future
Posts: 51
Joined: 06 Dec 2022, 07:04

Re: Where is the evidence?

Post by Future » 28 Jan 2023, 04:42

triplese wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 19:52
1. Its cause. I'm living in Ukralne in 2 second big city in old (~1960) building and almost 3 years ago suddenly lag started. And I dont have it in ~2010 builded office.

2. If you questioning for something, be patient to read full answer pls. Admin of pro team says that they dont using any hardware/software etc and dont have any lags. "So probably, yes." However, I personally still not believe in EFI/RFI.

3. War in Ukralne lol. Get in Katowice Arena with all your gear not so easy. BTW, read second sentence of 1 point - its already checked.

4. "At this moment nobody knows what causing that and what meter will measure that. If you know root cause its will be easy to replicate and mitigate."

5. So you says that playing 4k hours soloq on LEM without sweating on each shot and then losing ranks sitting full focus to silver is OK? I dont think so. With 240hz monitor before lag I had some advantage, maybe 50-100 ms to flick and click. But there was advantage even versus faceit lvl10, I has clips with my clutches on local tournaments.
Many people here had 10 lvl faceit and same problem.
Server related problem - which server? Valve Poland, Vienna, Amster, Germany or faceit Germany? Which server is fault? :lol:
And if this is server problem - why any other game have same behaviour?
ISP - possibility of that is ~1%. 2 different ISPs with different routes, different pings, and one of them is same which I have in office (where I dont have lag) and fiber link was installed personally for my apartments directly from ISP, which is not so easy.
Even if I'm unlucky and both my ISP is faulty - how about people in Europe who have same problems and different ISPs? All ISPs faulty? Or not all, because you playing normally, yes?
Future wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 19:12
Same here and before few weeks I borrowed an old PC where I installed Windows XP and to my surprise the input lag was not present. After that I tried Win 7, 8 and 8.1 and the input lag was present everywhere. Even on 7 with DWM disabled. Also if your problem goes away after win reinstall what does that mean to you? :)
You are speaking about <50ms windows+whole system lag, which is kind of normal. We are speaking about >500ms lag, while you see on your screen normal image, but just only >500ms behind the server.
1. Fair enough, if you don't have it in your office why don't you record your gameplay there and when you are at home record your gameplay again. Upload the two videos here and we will make a comparison between the two videos. Also, please, don't forget to record them with opened net_graph. According to your theory, my friend must have input lag too, why doesn't he? And why moving to different places didn't work neither for me, or anybody else here? Why doesn't every person on this planet who lives in older houses/apartments have the issue? How did you ruled out the placebo factor and how did you measure that everything is okay in your office?

2. What the admin told you is that they don't use any software or hardware because they don't need it. It's the same why you don't drive with winter tires during summer days. Why would you?

3. No need to go to Katowice or anywhere if you say that the input lag doesn't exist in your office, it's way easier for you. The only thing left is to prove that it's not a placebo or internet related problem and that's easy. So please, because I haven't met a person with such a massive claim, please provide the evidences and convince the rest of us the doubters.

4. How so "noone knows what's causing it" but you claim it's electricity and you are trying so hard, that you are ignorant to everything else?

5. The fact that you played 4k hours on LEM and you are saying "With 240hz monitor before lag I had some advantage, maybe 50-100 ms to flick and click." speaks for itself, I don't even know how to reply to that, it's that ridiculous.

Good, you have a problem on all servers. How do you know it's not your ISP then? Saying that you have the same ISP at home and at your office doesn't mean the line can't be fucked up. Me and my friend also have the same provider, his gameplay is fluent but mine is not. I have encountered packet loss but he never did. Are you sure that at home you don't have too many wireless devices attached to your network that steal your bandwith? Are you sure you have the same equipment in both your office and at home? Are you sure it's not an ISP cable somewhere on the trace? Or ISP router? Or ISP switch? Did you try to diagnose ISP related problems and how? You will be amazed how many shitty ISPs there are around the world, or how people are unable to tell if it's pure internet lag or input lag. Again, I don't want to offend you, but you tried to blame your screen tearing on "bad electricity", tell me how do I believe you?

If it's not network related and the so called "desync" is not server/ISP related, can you record a video where bots insta-peek you on LAN? I highly doubt.
assombrosso wrote:
27 Jan 2023, 23:43
What answer do you want to hear ? This is what this thread is about . Are you trying to say that these latencies observed by us aren’t real ? And that we are making them up in our heads? Lol but why would we do that ? And why would these people lie
I don't want to hear answers, I want evidences. The guy with the EMC company continued to browse the forum desperately trying to find a fix for his problem. Literally one post below the "gas generator guy", another two replied that they already tried that and it didn't help at all. Same with solar panels and even going off grid. All of that without any proper measurement or proofs at all.

I am not saying that input lag isn't real, I am trying to understand where and what is the point of comparison and how did you/they measure it. You just said that your problem goes away after windows reinstall, yet you still think it's electricity related.

Unreazz
Posts: 164
Joined: 30 Dec 2019, 06:45

Re: Where is the evidence?

Post by Unreazz » 28 Jan 2023, 12:41

well i have atleast the evidence for me, that its internet related. Gameplay was different and i also screenshoted my stats back then, when it worked like wonder.

on cable with VPN and on VDSL with a line reset. there was a major difference and i also streamed it live but sadly i don't have the VOD's anymore. they get automatically deleted after a month.

This is not just "Feeling" this is a whole different Gameplay and if you not a dumb, then you can clearly see the difference on other gameplays vs someone who suffers. you can see this just bei the thing how the whole world is reacting to you. this is probably something that a casual will not see.

assombrosso
Posts: 279
Joined: 29 Nov 2021, 10:34

Re: Where is the evidence?

Post by assombrosso » 28 Jan 2023, 13:38

We don’t have time effort money to prove to people we are lagging, we would rather try to spend on a fix. Windows reinstall apparently resets everything so lag goes, but something triggers the lag to come back again. I have disabled updates using million ways and lag always comes back within hours. I did this over 30 times and it worked 30 times.

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