[Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Separate area for niche lag issues including unexpected causes and/or electromagnetic interference (ECC = retransmits = lag). Interference (EMI, EMF) of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction latencies like a bad modem connection. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI. Please read this before entering sub-forum.
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This subforum is for advanced users only. This separate area is for niche or unexpected lag issues such as electromagnetic interference (EMI, EMF, electrical, radiofrequency, etc). Interference of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction (ECC) latencies like a bad modem connection, except internally in a circuit. ECC = retransmits = lag. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI.
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 07 Dec 2021, 22:37

dervu wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 12:02
I am going on with interference path. I have confirmed with AM radio many times that in my apartments building there is strong interference. It goes from at least 150kHz (probably below too - radio doesn't go as low) all the way to 1/2 MHz and gradually fading closer to 2MHz range. Also in overall lower range there is so much background noise.
Generic Tips If You Know Interference Source Is A Nearby AM Radio Station:

AM radio station nearby at close range (aka same block, or even next door) is a known interference problem for computer operation. It's currently doubtful that bringing your electricity offgrid will help with interference from AM radio.

However, since you know your interference source is AM radio signal -- here's a tip: It is known that wireless peripherals (keyboard/mouse) + Faraday caging your computer (6-sided steel casing, no glass window) will be effective against strong AM radio emissions.

All accessory USB cables behaves like antennas for super-strong AM radio emissions, creating error correction latency overheads on cheap thin USB cables. To the point where USB cables can have more latency than using a wireless gaming mouse/keyboard. Buyi

Remember this is helpful only if your AM radio broadcast signal is ultra excessively strong (metaphorically like blindingly bright sun or searchlight of a station next door, instead of a flashlight bulb of a distant station) -- tens of thousands of times stronger AM radio signal than the normal AM radio signal. That overkill radio signal strength can wreak havoc with some computer internals and poorly shielded USB cabling.

You can also buy extra well-shielded USB cables (*double* shielded cables with ferrite chokes on both ends), which will help better resist AM radio frequencies. But many gaming mouse cables are designed to be flexible, so they are only lightly shielded -- not as well shielded as a well-shielded stiff USB cables. Easier to just get a good wireless gaming mouse -- to avoid the cable-as-antenna creating error-correction latency behaviors. AM radio frequencies generates stray electric currents in all long-and-metallic objects, whether it be metal sticks, antennas, or --you got it-- accessory cables like all your USB cabling! So shield or eliminate those antennas.
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dervu
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by dervu » 08 Dec 2021, 12:37

Guys, you misunderstood. It's not radio signal, it was just confirmed by portable AM radio that there is interference in that range. It is interference coming from elevator equipment.
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naporitan
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by naporitan » 17 Dec 2021, 09:36

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
07 Dec 2021, 22:37
dervu wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 12:02
I am going on with interference path. I have confirmed with AM radio many times that in my apartments building there is strong interference. It goes from at least 150kHz (probably below too - radio doesn't go as low) all the way to 1/2 MHz and gradually fading closer to 2MHz range. Also in overall lower range there is so much background noise.
Generic Tips If You Know Interference Source Is A Nearby AM Radio Station:

AM radio station nearby at close range (aka same block, or even next door) is a known interference problem for computer operation. It's currently doubtful that bringing your electricity offgrid will help with interference from AM radio.

However, since you know your interference source is AM radio signal -- here's a tip: It is known that wireless peripherals (keyboard/mouse) + Faraday caging your computer (6-sided steel casing, no glass window) will be effective against strong AM radio emissions.

All accessory USB cables behaves like antennas for super-strong AM radio emissions, creating error correction latency overheads on cheap thin USB cables. To the point where USB cables can have more latency than using a wireless gaming mouse/keyboard. Buyi

Remember this is helpful only if your AM radio broadcast signal is ultra excessively strong (metaphorically like blindingly bright sun or searchlight of a station next door, instead of a flashlight bulb of a distant station) -- tens of thousands of times stronger AM radio signal than the normal AM radio signal. That overkill radio signal strength can wreak havoc with some computer internals and poorly shielded USB cabling.

You can also buy extra well-shielded USB cables (*double* shielded cables with ferrite chokes on both ends), which will help better resist AM radio frequencies. But many gaming mouse cables are designed to be flexible, so they are only lightly shielded -- not as well shielded as a well-shielded stiff USB cables. Easier to just get a good wireless gaming mouse -- to avoid the cable-as-antenna creating error-correction latency behaviors. AM radio frequencies generates stray electric currents in all long-and-metallic objects, whether it be metal sticks, antennas, or --you got it-- accessory cables like all your USB cabling! So shield or eliminate those antennas.
Wrong, the problem is really in the RFI... It's just not enough to replace the peripherals... Because the monitor itself is like an antenna for this interference... I think a RFI jammer would help in this case.

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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 18 Dec 2021, 17:28

naporitan wrote:
17 Dec 2021, 09:36
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
07 Dec 2021, 22:37
dervu wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 12:02
I am going on with interference path. I have confirmed with AM radio many times that in my apartments building there is strong interference. It goes from at least 150kHz (probably below too - radio doesn't go as low) all the way to 1/2 MHz and gradually fading closer to 2MHz range. Also in overall lower range there is so much background noise.
Generic Tips If You Know Interference Source Is A Nearby AM Radio Station:

AM radio station nearby at close range (aka same block, or even next door) is a known interference problem for computer operation. It's currently doubtful that bringing your electricity offgrid will help with interference from AM radio.

However, since you know your interference source is AM radio signal -- here's a tip: It is known that wireless peripherals (keyboard/mouse) + Faraday caging your computer (6-sided steel casing, no glass window) will be effective against strong AM radio emissions.

All accessory USB cables behaves like antennas for super-strong AM radio emissions, creating error correction latency overheads on cheap thin USB cables. To the point where USB cables can have more latency than using a wireless gaming mouse/keyboard. Buyi

Remember this is helpful only if your AM radio broadcast signal is ultra excessively strong (metaphorically like blindingly bright sun or searchlight of a station next door, instead of a flashlight bulb of a distant station) -- tens of thousands of times stronger AM radio signal than the normal AM radio signal. That overkill radio signal strength can wreak havoc with some computer internals and poorly shielded USB cabling.

You can also buy extra well-shielded USB cables (*double* shielded cables with ferrite chokes on both ends), which will help better resist AM radio frequencies. But many gaming mouse cables are designed to be flexible, so they are only lightly shielded -- not as well shielded as a well-shielded stiff USB cables. Easier to just get a good wireless gaming mouse -- to avoid the cable-as-antenna creating error-correction latency behaviors. AM radio frequencies generates stray electric currents in all long-and-metallic objects, whether it be metal sticks, antennas, or --you got it-- accessory cables like all your USB cabling! So shield or eliminate those antennas.
Wrong, the problem is really in the RFI... It's just not enough to replace the peripherals... Because the monitor itself is like an antenna for this interference... I think a RFI jammer would help in this case.
We are both right. So I can’t be wrong either.

Anything with wires inside (including the monitor) can act as an antenna. ideally peripherals innards are usually like Faraday cages inside (metal boxes protecting the scaler/TCON). But not all of them can protect themselves as well as others.

What you are saying does not mean I’m wrong. It’s just that there are so many vectors of intereference that can affect a computer’s operation.
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  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

Kalppus
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Kalppus » 22 Dec 2021, 08:25

Tell me I am not crazy. I hope you have time to read this and give your confirm and opinion about this. And possibly tell, if this what I am doing is the right choise and should I try something else still and maybe there is things I have not taken to my observation. I am really desperate and getting eaten day by day because of this. So could you read this and perhaps help me even tho I probably know already the problem, but I think you can just confirm this.

So let me begin. I am guy from Finland. I am very competitive player of cs, and I believe I could get somewhere in this game, But unfortunately there came problems. I had to start play platform called FACEIT to proceed in this game. Because when I played MM or popflash matches and so on I used to get like 40 kills in global elite MM, So I believed I could be some kind of "older" talent in this game and I could get somewhere with this talent (at least I want to fulfill my dream and see where it takes me, even tho it maybe never takes me that high). I have played 6000hrs cs and it feels like life to me.
So anyway now, when I had to start play cs in faceit there came problem. To play faceit you must use their anticheat called "faceit anti-cheat". Well when I lauch my cs while my profile is logged into the anticheat I get so terrible and awful input lag, it is just like you already know, because you talk in here about it. Mouse is delayed in the game, actions, movement everything is very delayed and sluggish, hitreg is huge problem and bullets are travelling very weirdly. Also when I am seeing enemy or enemy hit me the game kinda microfreezes or stutters very badly in these events. As you can guess now my gameplay is impossible with these problems. I have managed to get into 2600 elo in faceit, but I have to play very weirdly, because I know i lose my duels almost everytime, if I am trying to peek the enemy, because of these problems, so my gameplay is basically just going first as a bait or holding 100% sure angles where I can kill enemy. I can not even imagine what could i achieve, if this stupid game worked.

and now to make sure for you I am not some random stupid kid who thinks this "could" be one problem option that I am having. I tell you I am 100% sure this is it. I have had this year and like I said this problem is eating my day by day. So ofc I have done many things and some research.

I can begin what I have tried to fix this input lag. And oh firstly, yeah there is some same kind of lags in other games too but not as bad as "cs with faceit anitcheat on". And my cs is working almost fine with other anticheats and its working fine by itself, but I only got this problem with faceit anticheat, I know it might sound for some of you that ah its the anticheat interfacting with some other programs then, but noo noo, its not that. I have had faceit support team over my computer checking things and giving some scripts and different versions of AC so it could fix, but there is no difference. It is like the faceit anticheat just changes the game so much like it affected to the electricity somehow.

What have I tried:

New pc

New router

New operator

VPN

New mouse,monitor and everything else

Different extension cords

Reinstalling windows, different windows

different plugs in my house.

Having some experts doing minium latency for my system with windows tweaks.

Like there is no solution it is always the very same problem and as bad no matter what I am doing or upgrading.

Different steam and different faceit profiles

Reinstall windows and download only faceit and steam.

This is also interesting thing I discovered. So, if I start my anticheat but I do not log into it with my profile and then I launch my cs. Well in this time CSGO is not launched with a 3rd party software but the ac is still opened in the background so in this time there is no problems.
but when i log into the ac with my profile and the cs starts in 3rd party the problems come, and this 3rd party problem comes only with faceit, other 3rd parties work well.

So I am trying now that I go to my bestfriends house try my computer and cs and anticheat if they works, I also try in my fathers house so if that can help in anyway and confirm it is the electricity what is causing this problem.

Other interesting fact is that I moved a house in this same area and the problem still persist so, could it really be the groundings with bad electricity or with bad electricity distributor. I know there is many others who has these same problems with only cs and also with faceit anticheat, I do not know have ever anyone fixed these, but i am looking foward to really fix this problem, I am pretty sure at the longest this will fix when csgo gets source 2 engine.

I also have the data of my electricity distributor, if you want to know something about it.

And one question still to eliminate that this is not internet problem. So if I log into faceit anticheat and its running, but I launch my cs and steam in offline and go play, then I can play only bots, but the problem is there still while i am playing in offline so then it can not be internet right or any router thing or something?

If you read this, this would mean the world to me :/ and reply would be even better, I am sorry about this being this long and complicated, but I am sure you understand most of it

Qure
Posts: 5
Joined: 11 Feb 2020, 03:01

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Qure » 22 Dec 2021, 15:39

Kalppus wrote:
22 Dec 2021, 08:25
Tell me I am not crazy. I hope you have time to read this and give your confirm and opinion about this. And possibly tell, if this what I am doing is the right choise and should I try something else still and maybe there is things I have not taken to my observation. I am really desperate and getting eaten day by day because of this. So could you read this and perhaps help me even tho I probably know already the problem, but I think you can just confirm this.

So let me begin. I am guy from Finland. I am very competitive player of cs, and I believe I could get somewhere in this game, But unfortunately there came problems. I had to start play platform called FACEIT to proceed in this game. Because when I played MM or popflash matches and so on I used to get like 40 kills in global elite MM, So I believed I could be some kind of "older" talent in this game and I could get somewhere with this talent (at least I want to fulfill my dream and see where it takes me, even tho it maybe never takes me that high). I have played 6000hrs cs and it feels like life to me.
So anyway now, when I had to start play cs in faceit there came problem. To play faceit you must use their anticheat called "faceit anti-cheat". Well when I lauch my cs while my profile is logged into the anticheat I get so terrible and awful input lag, it is just like you already know, because you talk in here about it. Mouse is delayed in the game, actions, movement everything is very delayed and sluggish, hitreg is huge problem and bullets are travelling very weirdly. Also when I am seeing enemy or enemy hit me the game kinda microfreezes or stutters very badly in these events. As you can guess now my gameplay is impossible with these problems. I have managed to get into 2600 elo in faceit, but I have to play very weirdly, because I know i lose my duels almost everytime, if I am trying to peek the enemy, because of these problems, so my gameplay is basically just going first as a bait or holding 100% sure angles where I can kill enemy. I can not even imagine what could i achieve, if this stupid game worked.

and now to make sure for you I am not some random stupid kid who thinks this "could" be one problem option that I am having. I tell you I am 100% sure this is it. I have had this year and like I said this problem is eating my day by day. So ofc I have done many things and some research.

I can begin what I have tried to fix this input lag. And oh firstly, yeah there is some same kind of lags in other games too but not as bad as "cs with faceit anitcheat on". And my cs is working almost fine with other anticheats and its working fine by itself, but I only got this problem with faceit anticheat, I know it might sound for some of you that ah its the anticheat interfacting with some other programs then, but noo noo, its not that. I have had faceit support team over my computer checking things and giving some scripts and different versions of AC so it could fix, but there is no difference. It is like the faceit anticheat just changes the game so much like it affected to the electricity somehow.

What have I tried:

New pc

New router

New operator

VPN

New mouse,monitor and everything else

Different extension cords

Reinstalling windows, different windows

different plugs in my house.

Having some experts doing minium latency for my system with windows tweaks.

Like there is no solution it is always the very same problem and as bad no matter what I am doing or upgrading.

Different steam and different faceit profiles

Reinstall windows and download only faceit and steam.

This is also interesting thing I discovered. So, if I start my anticheat but I do not log into it with my profile and then I launch my cs. Well in this time CSGO is not launched with a 3rd party software but the ac is still opened in the background so in this time there is no problems.
but when i log into the ac with my profile and the cs starts in 3rd party the problems come, and this 3rd party problem comes only with faceit, other 3rd parties work well.

So I am trying now that I go to my bestfriends house try my computer and cs and anticheat if they works, I also try in my fathers house so if that can help in anyway and confirm it is the electricity what is causing this problem.

Other interesting fact is that I moved a house in this same area and the problem still persist so, could it really be the groundings with bad electricity or with bad electricity distributor. I know there is many others who has these same problems with only cs and also with faceit anticheat, I do not know have ever anyone fixed these, but i am looking foward to really fix this problem, I am pretty sure at the longest this will fix when csgo gets source 2 engine.

I also have the data of my electricity distributor, if you want to know something about it.

And one question still to eliminate that this is not internet problem. So if I log into faceit anticheat and its running, but I launch my cs and steam in offline and go play, then I can play only bots, but the problem is there still while i am playing in offline so then it can not be internet right or any router thing or something?

If you read this, this would mean the world to me :/ and reply would be even better, I am sorry about this being this long and complicated, but I am sure you understand most of it
Have you tried shutting down all of your Circuit Breakers in the Electricity power box (besides the Circuit Breaker that powers your PC.) and then test if CS GO runs with no delay?

If you're almost sure that it's related to Electricity power issues..
Then you should check this thread about it:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=9345


I've done this test myself and it actually reduced 90% of the delay instantly. I'm still shocked myself. (Trying to find a permanent solution for it with the electricity power fully on.)


I have no idea how an Anti-cheat app can cause this for you.. but you said it's also happens with other games? If yes, then you can try the power trick just to be sure.

Faceit runs servers on 128tick which require more CPU cycle calculation than MM servers that run on 64tick.
(You probably did applied 'cmdrate' and 'updaterate' to "128" in your config.)

Maybe the higher tick calculation amplifies the errors to a degree that it induced much more delay? (You said MM feels good, so it's kinda unlikely to be that extreme.)

Have you tried playing on Community Servers that run on 128tick without Faceit AC?
Does it run smooth with no delay?

Another reason might be that the ISP routing is complete ASS to Faceit servers, although you said it's not network related issue.
So I assume you did routing tests to Faceit Servers just to be sure it's not the issue.

Do you run Win 11? If so, you checked in BIOS that 'Secure Boot' is enabled? If yes, you tried to check how it works when it's disabled?

One thing about 'Secure Boot' is that you must disable 'CSM Support' to run it in UEFI mode exclusively.
I've heard some people have issues when 'CSM Support' is disabled for some reason.
(That's an issue that some people find after upgrading to Win 11. Can't validate this issue myself since I didn't had it.)

Have you factory reset your build BIOS or updated it to a newer version?
(Again, it can be some weird compatibility issue bug in the BIOS that will remain active regardless the amount of times that you re-installed your Windows.)
Although you said you bought a new PC, so it's probably not that but still something that you can check as well.


I'm pretty sure that Faceit Anti-Cheat records the client Input to auto ban Scripters that macro inhuman input key presses.
Maybe your game gets delayed really badly because that Anti-Cheat "overlay" input-recorder is messing up with PC somehow.
I know that when I use 'mouse tester' my mouse movement gets slightly delayed because the program records every input to form a graph.
(A far-fetched theory to say the least.. so don't take it too seriously.)

I would advice to check the Circuit Breaker thing test that I mention at the start of the post.
Let me know what you tried.

RightYStorm
Posts: 15
Joined: 25 Jun 2021, 06:01

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by RightYStorm » 23 Dec 2021, 07:38

I called multiple companies again etc.
tried more and more houses, feels like it’s changing per house..
Never tried buying everything new only partly.
So basically I had multiple websites claim uneven harmonics especially (180hz and 300hz//3n and 5n(180hz in neutral))causes psus to drop the voltage after some time (even the slightest currents 10mA can cause data loss)..A cpu manufacturer had like these placebo problems we had that we can’t really test etc..
Also long ago a guy claimed about a voltage that dropped at his MB (checked over a multimeter) and he said once it dropped he got lags but I can’t find that forum anymore.. I bought a analyser for the busbar so I can check harmonics etc at 3/4am, if there’s a difference I’ll go into harmonic m transformers or 3ph systems that bound and remove harmonics cause active filters are way to expensive..
Meanwhile I’ll paint my garden shed with shielding paint (goes up to 18ghz -44db) so we can really exclude rfi also on monitors etc.
128tick is horror. Livening in Germany.

ashrr
Posts: 50
Joined: 21 Jun 2019, 10:12

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by ashrr » 23 Dec 2021, 13:30

RightYStorm wrote:
23 Dec 2021, 07:38
I called multiple companies again etc.
tried more and more houses, feels like it’s changing per house..
Never tried buying everything new only partly.
So basically I had multiple websites claim uneven harmonics especially (180hz and 300hz//3n and 5n(180hz in neutral))causes psus to drop the voltage after some time (even the slightest currents 10mA can cause data loss)..A cpu manufacturer had like these placebo problems we had that we can’t really test etc..
Also long ago a guy claimed about a voltage that dropped at his MB (checked over a multimeter) and he said once it dropped he got lags but I can’t find that forum anymore.. I bought a analyser for the busbar so I can check harmonics etc at 3/4am, if there’s a difference I’ll go into harmonic m transformers or 3ph systems that bound and remove harmonics cause active filters are way to expensive..
Meanwhile I’ll paint my garden shed with shielding paint (goes up to 18ghz -44db) so we can really exclude rfi also on monitors etc.
Have you or anyone with these electrical issues tried measuring there input delay with a highspeed camera or a 360hz monitor with reflex? Curious what sort of numbers you guys would get.

spoidah
Posts: 27
Joined: 20 Feb 2021, 04:34

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by spoidah » 24 Dec 2021, 02:00

ashrr wrote:
23 Dec 2021, 13:30
RightYStorm wrote:
23 Dec 2021, 07:38
I called multiple companies again etc.
tried more and more houses, feels like it’s changing per house..
Never tried buying everything new only partly.
So basically I had multiple websites claim uneven harmonics especially (180hz and 300hz//3n and 5n(180hz in neutral))causes psus to drop the voltage after some time (even the slightest currents 10mA can cause data loss)..A cpu manufacturer had like these placebo problems we had that we can’t really test etc..
Also long ago a guy claimed about a voltage that dropped at his MB (checked over a multimeter) and he said once it dropped he got lags but I can’t find that forum anymore.. I bought a analyser for the busbar so I can check harmonics etc at 3/4am, if there’s a difference I’ll go into harmonic m transformers or 3ph systems that bound and remove harmonics cause active filters are way to expensive..
Meanwhile I’ll paint my garden shed with shielding paint (goes up to 18ghz -44db) so we can really exclude rfi also on monitors etc.
Have you or anyone with these electrical issues tried measuring there input delay with a highspeed camera or a 360hz monitor with reflex? Curious what sort of numbers you guys would get.
Yeah, I did. I have the alienware 360Hz monitor with nvidia reflex. My input lag is usually only 10-20ms slower than what I consider normal from watching other peoples tests (normal range was about 8-16ms with some outliers, mine was about 18-40ms).

Sometimes I would get massive blowout numbers of 180-400+ms, but generally the extreme level of input lag I feel (~200-300ms) isn't really explained by the numbers I see on the latency module.

I think peoples best option with this issue is high speed camera work, its just not getting picked up properly.

naporitan
Posts: 96
Joined: 09 Jun 2021, 06:16

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by naporitan » 24 Dec 2021, 03:12

Yeah, I did. I have the alienware 360Hz monitor with nvidia reflex. My input lag is usually only 10-20ms slower than what I consider normal from watching other peoples tests (normal range was about 8-16ms with some outliers, mine was about 18-40ms).

Sometimes I would get massive blowout numbers of 180-400+ms, but generally the extreme level of input lag I feel (~200-300ms) isn't really explained by the numbers I see on the latency module.

I think peoples best option with this issue is high speed camera work, its just not getting picked up properly.
The high latency is half the problem. the most annoying is desync.....

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