[Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Separate area for niche lag issues including unexpected causes and/or electromagnetic interference (ECC = retransmits = lag). Interference (EMI, EMF) of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction latencies like a bad modem connection. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI. Please read this before entering sub-forum.
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This subforum is for advanced users only. This separate area is for niche or unexpected lag issues such as electromagnetic interference (EMI, EMF, electrical, radiofrequency, etc). Interference of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction (ECC) latencies like a bad modem connection, except internally in a circuit. ECC = retransmits = lag. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI.
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delve
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by delve » 23 Feb 2022, 17:55

"Mine flickers sometimes when fluffy cat is running across the table. So, these modern pieces of shit for 4 figures do not include basic environmental protection?"

:D

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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 23 Feb 2022, 18:17

delve wrote:
23 Feb 2022, 17:55
"Mine flickers sometimes when fluffy cat is running across the table. So, these modern pieces of shit for 4 figures do not include basic environmental protection?"
The primary topic in that link -- Electronic spark ignitors are definitely a source of EMI. A sparkplug emits interference when there's a spark (A mini EMP) -- is more common. Starting a certain kinds of electric sparkplugs inches away from a cable / a monitor can sometimes cause noticeable interference effects.

The secondary topic -- a commentator comment about cat -- It's not the cat's fault but a dominoe effect.

Desk vibrations shaking loose wires that are already pushed to their limits (EMI causing them to operate very close to Shannon's Theorem -- part of information theory in Unviersity). When data links are operating close to their noisefloor limits, even minor vibrations can cause things to go to bleep. A cheap video cable that doesn't have enough safety margin in its signal-to-noise ratio, as one example. Or even a well-worn monitor Displayport connector that barely connects well enough -- a minor jiggle may cause a working signal to drop out. This can occur even if the DisplayPort is still connected but the connectors are too corroded/weak/worn (or the cable too skimpy / signal too weak), so if the signal weakness falls low enough in an imperfect cable connection, glitches show or picture drops out. With today's speeds, a lot of copper links are already being pushed to Shannon Theorem [Wikipedia] limits already nowadays, so any minor disruptions -- even unexpected desk vibrations in a specific corner -- can sometimes cause glitching. Good cables, fresh ports, and keeping electrical interference sources away from data cables, can help make it immune to such stuff, but many people just slap together a mess on their desk using heavily-used equipment of all kinds... Eventually the signal margins are eroded.

Both primary/secondary are rated plausible my me when I read between the words and look at the honest science. But they're just momentary events (transient glitching) -- not a sustained inteference event creating lag (essentially a latency death by a million error-correction cuts).
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Plznoinputlag
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Plznoinputlag » 24 Feb 2022, 02:50

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
23 Feb 2022, 18:17
delve wrote:
23 Feb 2022, 17:55
"Mine flickers sometimes when fluffy cat is running across the table. So, these modern pieces of shit for 4 figures do not include basic environmental protection?"
The primary topic in that link -- Electronic spark ignitors are definitely a source of EMI. A sparkplug emits interference when there's a spark (A mini EMP) -- is more common. Starting a certain kinds of electric sparkplugs inches away from a cable / a monitor can sometimes cause noticeable interference effects.

The secondary topic -- a commentator comment about cat -- It's not the cat's fault but a dominoe effect.

Desk vibrations shaking loose wires that are already pushed to their limits (EMI causing them to operate very close to Shannon's Theorem -- part of information theory in Unviersity). When data links are operating close to their noisefloor limits, even minor vibrations can cause things to go to bleep. A cheap video cable that doesn't have enough safety margin in its signal-to-noise ratio, as one example. Or even a well-worn monitor Displayport connector that barely connects well enough -- a minor jiggle may cause a working signal to drop out. This can occur even if the DisplayPort is still connected but the connectors are too corroded/weak/worn (or the cable too skimpy / signal too weak), so if the signal weakness falls low enough in an imperfect cable connection, glitches show or picture drops out. With today's speeds, a lot of copper links are already being pushed to Shannon Theorem [Wikipedia] limits already nowadays, so any minor disruptions -- even unexpected desk vibrations in a specific corner -- can sometimes cause glitching. Good cables, fresh ports, and keeping electrical interference sources away from data cables, can help make it immune to such stuff, but many people just slap together a mess on their desk using heavily-used equipment of all kinds... Eventually the signal margins are eroded.

Both primary/secondary are rated plausible my me when I read between the words and look at the honest science. But they're just momentary events (transient glitching) -- not a sustained inteference event creating lag (essentially a latency death by a million error-correction cuts).
i have some information about the input lag,
i tried my pc in a good location and it was working flawless without input lag very goo hitreg and i was able to build a muscle memory by less than 20 minutes of gameplay. it was in my friends house so asked my friend to unplug the grounding cable from the main panel and try to play with ungrounded electricity and guess what it becames sluggish and heavy mouse movement with bad hitreg exactly like my house. so i came to the point that a bad grounding or not grounded houses make this issues. theres alot of currents in our pcs that not grounded and flow to the components even to our body. its very bad for out health also.
@Chief maybe theres an option that i can remove the current without grounding if its possible?

kriegsnake
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by kriegsnake » 24 Feb 2022, 03:04

Plznoinputlag wrote:
24 Feb 2022, 02:50
i have some information about the input lag,
i tried my pc in a good location and it was working flawless without input lag very goo hitreg and i was able to build a muscle memory by less than 20 minutes of gameplay. it was in my friends house so asked my friend to unplug the grounding cable from the main panel and try to play with ungrounded electricity and guess what it becames sluggish and heavy mouse movement with bad hitreg exactly like my house. so i came to the point that a bad grounding or not grounded houses make this issues. theres alot of currents in our pcs that not grounded and flow to the components even to our body. its very bad for out health also.
@Chief maybe theres an option that i can remove the current without grounding if its possible?
I live in a building that has a grounding steel in an apartment block , so I decided to create a separate line ( 'cause my flat wires don't have grounding and I didn't want to destroy all my fenshui house to rearrange the wires in the wall) with grounding for only 2 sockets for my pc . The game felt different, much more smoother but hitreg and mouse didn't felt anything better , maybe in my case there is something wrong with emi that effects outside the house or my internet box( i have no idea how to call it , the internet point from isp that gives internet to the flats ) or that "dirty electricity" that already had an effect on my pc , but i have no funds atm to change my whole pc, so idk you can give it a shot with grounding wire .

Plznoinputlag
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Plznoinputlag » 24 Feb 2022, 03:22

kriegsnake wrote:
24 Feb 2022, 03:04
Plznoinputlag wrote:
24 Feb 2022, 02:50
i have some information about the input lag,
i tried my pc in a good location and it was working flawless without input lag very goo hitreg and i was able to build a muscle memory by less than 20 minutes of gameplay. it was in my friends house so asked my friend to unplug the grounding cable from the main panel and try to play with ungrounded electricity and guess what it becames sluggish and heavy mouse movement with bad hitreg exactly like my house. so i came to the point that a bad grounding or not grounded houses make this issues. theres alot of currents in our pcs that not grounded and flow to the components even to our body. its very bad for out health also.
@Chief maybe theres an option that i can remove the current without grounding if its possible?
I live in a building that has a grounding steel in an apartment block , so I decided to create a separate line ( 'cause my flat wires don't have grounding and I didn't want to destroy all my fenshui house to rearrange the wires in the wall) with grounding for only 2 sockets for my pc . The game felt different, much more smoother but hitreg and mouse didn't felt anything better , maybe in my case there is something wrong with emi that effects outside the house or my internet box( i have no idea how to call it , the internet point from isp that gives internet to the flats ) or that "dirty electricity" that already had an effect on my pc , but i have no funds atm to change my whole pc, so idk you can give it a shot with grounding wire .
i think you need proper ground with zero “ohm” i dont know how to call it properly.
grounding only one socket at home will not help because u getting current from the other outlets bro so you need to ground all your house(Main electricity panel , fuse box).

Thatweirdinputlag
Posts: 305
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Thatweirdinputlag » 26 Feb 2022, 03:44

Plznoinputlag wrote:
24 Feb 2022, 03:22
kriegsnake wrote:
24 Feb 2022, 03:04
Plznoinputlag wrote:
24 Feb 2022, 02:50
i have some information about the input lag,
i tried my pc in a good location and it was working flawless without input lag very goo hitreg and i was able to build a muscle memory by less than 20 minutes of gameplay. it was in my friends house so asked my friend to unplug the grounding cable from the main panel and try to play with ungrounded electricity and guess what it becames sluggish and heavy mouse movement with bad hitreg exactly like my house. so i came to the point that a bad grounding or not grounded houses make this issues. theres alot of currents in our pcs that not grounded and flow to the components even to our body. its very bad for out health also.
@Chief maybe theres an option that i can remove the current without grounding if its possible?
I live in a building that has a grounding steel in an apartment block , so I decided to create a separate line ( 'cause my flat wires don't have grounding and I didn't want to destroy all my fenshui house to rearrange the wires in the wall) with grounding for only 2 sockets for my pc . The game felt different, much more smoother but hitreg and mouse didn't felt anything better , maybe in my case there is something wrong with emi that effects outside the house or my internet box( i have no idea how to call it , the internet point from isp that gives internet to the flats ) or that "dirty electricity" that already had an effect on my pc , but i have no funds atm to change my whole pc, so idk you can give it a shot with grounding wire .
i think you need proper ground with zero “ohm” i dont know how to call it properly.
grounding only one socket at home will not help because u getting current from the other outlets bro so you need to ground all your house(Main electricity panel , fuse box).

You cannot achieve that without proper grounding unfortunately, the current leakage that will flow through your equipment will need a return path back to earth otherwise they will just stay hovering on your PC case and depending on the strength of that current, it might cause shock you when touching the PC case while you yourself is grounded "I.e being barefoot" @Plznoinputlag


@kriegsnake If you're using cable internet "or still on DSL", the coax cable box will be grounded to the same building's ground, and since you managed to create a different grounding point "hoping it was actually a proper grounding installation with low impedance", whether it is with higher or lower potential and resistance, make sure that your ethernet cable is not shielding and that all your RJ45 ports on your router are made of plastic and not have the 2 metal flaps on the sides of each RJ45 port otherwise you might run into ground loop problems and it might be way worse than simply not having ground, so in general make sure that the router/modem is not POE capable. If your motherboard supports Wifi or you have a PCIe wifi card, try using that and see if it helps.

If the building already has a grounding system installed, ask your neighbours about it, bring an electrician to check on it, if its working well, the electrician can link a main grounding line between the building's main electric panel and your panel easily "if its not already connected" and then he can just pull ground wires through the original sockets and install them with new grounded sockets "3 prongs".


@Plznoinputlag It is physically impossible to achieve 0 ohms. Ohms in this case is measuring resistance "how much the wire is resisting the current in question", even the best of copper wires with insanely wide diameters cannot achieve that. I think what you meant is low resistance in general, and in regards to computing or highly sensitive equipment many associations would advice a resistance of no more than 5 Ohms or even 2 Ohms. The reason for that, is to allow the circuit breaker to trip as fast as possible with the least amount of over-current possible to help protect those equipment.

More to your post, Grounding is needed in general for; Saftey precautions 1st of all, and 2nd to reduce emi and help prevent over currents from destroying your equipment. Now if you are "getting current from other outlets" then thats a totally different problem that you have to deal with and proper grounding would not help with that.
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kriegsnake
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by kriegsnake » 26 Feb 2022, 07:36

Thatweirdinputlag wrote:
26 Feb 2022, 03:44
@kriegsnake If you're using cable internet "or still on DSL", the coax cable box will be grounded to the same building's ground, and since you managed to create a different grounding point "hoping it was actually a proper grounding installation with low impedance", whether it is with higher or lower potential and resistance, make sure that your ethernet cable is not shielding and that all your RJ45 ports on your router are made of plastic and not have the 2 metal flaps on the sides of each RJ45 port otherwise you might run into ground loop problems and it might be way worse than simply not having ground, so in general make sure that the router/modem is not POE capable. If your motherboard supports Wifi or you have a PCIe wifi card, try using that and see if it helps.

If the building already has a grounding system installed, ask your neighbours about it, bring an electrician to check on it, if its working well, the electrician can link a main grounding line between the building's main electric panel and your panel easily "if its not already connected" and then he can just pull ground wires through the original sockets and install them with new grounded sockets "3 prongs".
I'm using gpon ethernet atm, before I used ftth but it was same thing. Yes, my building has a grounding system, I've brought an electrician ,he linked the main electric panel of the building with my panel and straight to the switch that enables/disables power in my room(both outlets and light in the same line) , checked it with lamps, and he said if the lamp turns on it means that the grounding is working. Then i bought a cable and held out to my room , and connected my pc and monitor too it. I even bought the tp-link 1gb ethernet usb thing and it didn't work good either. Probably I'm gonna do what you said, I'll buy the pcie wifi card and try with it too.

Thatweirdinputlag
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Thatweirdinputlag » 26 Feb 2022, 20:24

kriegsnake wrote:
26 Feb 2022, 07:36
Thatweirdinputlag wrote:
26 Feb 2022, 03:44
@kriegsnake If you're using cable internet "or still on DSL", the coax cable box will be grounded to the same building's ground, and since you managed to create a different grounding point "hoping it was actually a proper grounding installation with low impedance", whether it is with higher or lower potential and resistance, make sure that your ethernet cable is not shielding and that all your RJ45 ports on your router are made of plastic and not have the 2 metal flaps on the sides of each RJ45 port otherwise you might run into ground loop problems and it might be way worse than simply not having ground, so in general make sure that the router/modem is not POE capable. If your motherboard supports Wifi or you have a PCIe wifi card, try using that and see if it helps.

If the building already has a grounding system installed, ask your neighbours about it, bring an electrician to check on it, if its working well, the electrician can link a main grounding line between the building's main electric panel and your panel easily "if its not already connected" and then he can just pull ground wires through the original sockets and install them with new grounded sockets "3 prongs".
I'm using gpon ethernet atm, before I used ftth but it was same thing. Yes, my building has a grounding system, I've brought an electrician ,he linked the main electric panel of the building with my panel and straight to the switch that enables/disables power in my room(both outlets and light in the same line) , checked it with lamps, and he said if the lamp turns on it means that the grounding is working. Then i bought a cable and held out to my room , and connected my pc and monitor too it. I even bought the tp-link 1gb ethernet usb thing and it didn't work good either. Probably I'm gonna do what you said, I'll buy the pcie wifi card and try with it too.
Don't get me wrong, but if you're paying for an electrician you should get an electrician. Not some sham of whatever that guy was! What does grounding have to do with lighting systems, usually lighting wires are differentiated from main socket AC and not linked together.
That being said, not a single consumer house hold light bulb in the world requires grounding it works of live and neutral. So how the hell did he check the ground connection by turning it on and off? More to that, anyone can install a ground rod into earth connect it via a copper cable to main panel and through that to house sockets and call it a day. It's the impedance is what you want "impedance in other words is resistance of the path back to earth", if you have high impedance on that ground line, the voltage leakage around the case would find a harder time to go back to earth through the ground pin. Not to mention it would be even harder for your system to establish a ground reference to work off of since the voltage potential on a really high impedance line would vary.
My advice to you is to either call the electrician back and ask him to do the job correctly and check the ground impedance correctly. Or call another one, don't spend money on a pcie card yet.
Rog Strix Z79i - Intel 13700K - 4090 OC ROG Strix - 7200 Trident G.Skill - 1TB SK Hynix Platinum P41 - 1000W ATX3.0 Asus Tuf - 34'' Odyssey OLED G8 - FinalMouse Tenz S/Pulsar Xlite V2 Mini - Wooting 60HE - Sennheiser HD 560s - Shure SM7b - GoXLR Mini

redveil19
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by redveil19 » 27 Feb 2022, 14:51

Hey guys i'm new to this forum but i've also had the input lag issue for more than a year now at first i tought it was windows related but multiple reinstall did not fixed the issue then i tought it was my pc causing the problem but i bought a new pc 2 months ago and same input lag problem after 2 days i recently tried with a wired mouse and it was perfect. when i had the inconsistant input lag issue with g pro wireless that i didn't have before the issue started a year and a half ago. u guys probly tried that already but for my case i was 100% sure it was electricity / Emi causing the input lag but i guess its some interferences causing my wireless mouse to have inconsistant input lag which is not supposed to happen just wanted to say that in case not everybody tried with a wired mouse

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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 27 Feb 2022, 16:33

Interference (EMI = Electromagnetic Interference) of all kinds can come in both wireless forms and wired forms.

Just as the exact same identical TV signal can travel over air (broadcast) or over a wire (cable) -- interference can create situations where wireless mouse is superior to wired mouse, or vice versa -- depending on what type of interference you have.
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