[Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Separate area for niche lag issues including unexpected causes and/or electromagnetic interference (ECC = retransmits = lag). Interference (EMI, EMF) of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction latencies like a bad modem connection. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI. Please read this before entering sub-forum.
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IMPORTANT:
This subforum is for advanced users only. This separate area is for niche or unexpected lag issues such as electromagnetic interference (EMI, EMF, electrical, radiofrequency, etc). Interference of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction (ECC) latencies like a bad modem connection, except internally in a circuit. ECC = retransmits = lag. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI.
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Mugabi
Posts: 242
Joined: 26 Apr 2021, 01:42

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Mugabi » 12 Nov 2021, 10:42

RightYStorm wrote:
12 Nov 2021, 03:14
I had a hero z390 which unfortunately died 2 times (got same again) msrp was 280€ or sth and this one died twice to the static(I call it like this). Your re right on a cheaper board I would be worse or died earlier.
I wonder what asrocks new usb lanes are they claim they made thick and better usb paths through the mb.
So it also happens on high end gaming boards, cpus and GPUs it’s all custom water cooled right now and no temp is not normal.
Buy new pc+peripherals and move to a new location, replacing part by part wont do it im afraid

RightYStorm
Posts: 15
Joined: 25 Jun 2021, 06:01

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by RightYStorm » 12 Nov 2021, 13:07

:D Yeah prob ur right
I went to a computer store they tested my pc so apparently my psu died which is somehow wierd cause normally they will survive 10years easily.
Corsair rm750 gold - I wonder if I should take it apart? Or sent it to Corsair.
I had a titanium fanless from Seasonic for 270€ but I sent it back cause there was a high pitched sound from capacitors etc. sounded like these old tvs and it was extremely loud mb that’s all related to our problem..
I will test this one at my new home first cause all other psu s from my laptops etc might be broken already…
My 3.3v and 5v was kinda low before but I thought it doesn’t count to the problems and is normal. This time I bought a power 11 750w gold.
128tick is horror. Livening in Germany.

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dervu
Posts: 249
Joined: 17 Apr 2020, 18:09

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by dervu » 14 Nov 2021, 15:23

If anyone here is conviced his issue is electrical, is living in apartment blocks, has portable AM radio, please check below steps.
I am not even sure if it is connected to this issue, or it is just usual interference from elevator on radio. However I found some documents stating things like that can emit a lot of interference.
That's why I want to check in broader range of people with this issue.

- Set portable AM radio to lowest LW frequency (-/+100kHz).
- Wait for elevator to move or go to elevator and push the button
- Listen if there is any noise, especially the one sounding like chainsaw (sound sample from my place: https://voca.ro/1bjjPpZYAgAl)
- Turn off all breakers in your apartment and repeat above
Ryzen 7950X3D / MSI GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming X Trio / ASUS TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS / 2x16GB DDR5@6000 G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279QM / Logitech G PRO X SUPERLIGHT / SkyPAD Glass 3.0 / Wooting 60HE / DT 700 PRO X || EMI Input lag issue survivor

naporitan
Posts: 96
Joined: 09 Jun 2021, 06:16

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by naporitan » 14 Nov 2021, 18:14

dervu wrote:
14 Nov 2021, 15:23
If anyone here is conviced his issue is electrical, is living in apartment blocks, has portable AM radio, please check below steps.
I am not even sure if it is connected to this issue, or it is just usual interference from elevator on radio. However I found some documents stating things like that can emit a lot of interference.
That's why I want to check in broader range of people with this issue.

- Set portable AM radio to lowest LW frequency (-/+100kHz).
- Wait for elevator to move or go to elevator and push the button
- Listen if there is any noise, especially the one sounding like chainsaw (sound sample from my place: https://voca.ro/1bjjPpZYAgAl)
- Turn off all breakers in your apartment and repeat above
I don't have an elevator ._.

naporitan
Posts: 96
Joined: 09 Jun 2021, 06:16

Re: I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by naporitan » 16 Nov 2021, 21:47

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
24 Mar 2020, 20:33
I can personally confirm Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) can sometimes be a source of lag/stutters -- it's also frustratingly wild goose chases for red herring very often -- but we've seen another forum member successfully fix things by fixing EMI.

Related EMI Threads:
-- You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem
-- 100+ ms frametime spike on 2 different pc builds.
-- Actual Success Story Reply by Chief Blur Buster

NOTE: EMI is a very rare cause of lag/stutters. Literally like 1 in 100 chance type cause. But cause exists. We've seen forum members fix lag via EMI fixes. It is very hard to troubleshoot, requires expert-league troubleshooting skills. However we've had actual confirmations of fixing EMI to fix stutters/lag. The short story is that computers are now full of error correction behaviours, and electromagnetic interference can slow down many electronics via error floods that is continually corrected by error correction, slowing things down. This includes SATA buses, PCI buses, M.2 buses, Ethernet cables, ECC RAM, and lots of other error correcting layers. Massive EMI can slow down a computer noticeably enough to create EMI-related latency.
translate to eng:


so if you have a timer (frequency generator) fucked up, what the computer records in terms of the duration of each frame is not what you see on the screen
you have 100 frames going, each one is 5ms exactly, but because the timer is not stable, 1 intra-computer ms can last 15 real physical ms for several of these 100 frames - 5, 5, 5, 15, 5, 5 , 5...
for you it will be a stater, and it won't show up on the video, so it won't show up in the afterburner and so on
there is a tool from mikrosoft for deep trabshooting these things, it can show you on a micro level what's going on in the system
each sub process how many nanoseconds it took in which process, all the connections between drivers, software and everything in the system
and there are such voids in the events. milliseconds when time stops for the computer, but the computer does not understand that this gap existed
at these moments the mouse does not move

it's a tool for developers of drivers and firmware for hardware, mostly
there are a couple of people who know how to use it, but the results themselves do not explain the causes
the tool can directly look at mouse data and see how it is intermittent if you have an intuition. but in reality, the mouse is running fine, but the computer time is stopped at ms or ms, and the user suffers because of the pause
the point is that the computer does not understand that the logical time is paused / unstable, for him everything goes on continuously

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timecard
Posts: 66
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 01:10

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by timecard » 17 Nov 2021, 00:21

The tools mentioned by Konstantin are part of the Windows Assessment and Deployment Kit (Windows ADK), the tool in the screenshot specifically is XE (Media eXperience Analyzer). I use both regularly but to understand them you'll need to do lots of reading and learning such as Windows Internals and just lots of time using the tools.
  • Windows Performance Toolkit - Includes xperf, windows performance analyzer and windows performance recorder
  • Media eXperience Analyzer
Download the appropriate one for your version of windows.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... dk-install

You can learn more for example reading blogs of Bruce Dawson (works at Google and previously Valve) who has shared many step by step processes for isolating random performance issues which includes things like overheating cpus causing performance issues invisible to most tools. Even someone like Bruce who spends countless hours in windows performance analyzer has said there's many issues that even he needs lots of time to identify root cause, he says you just need to dig around, read and eventually you'll get the answers. Main page: https://randomascii.wordpress.com/ or similarly related blog https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/ ... ge-gaming/

The screenshot itself is misleading, the gaps displayed are actually in seconds (2 second gap in processing which could have many causes, delays from disk, hardware issue, waiting on another thread/process such as a driver etc) but the tool has the capability of displaying much more granular points in time microseconds/nanoseconds. A 2 second gap would be extremely noticeable.

If you want real world examples of using Media eXperience Analyzer, see these official Microsoft videos part of the Defrag Tools sessions.

https://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Defrag- ... zer-part-1
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/WinHEC/ ... MXA-Part-2
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/WinHEC/ ... h-Analysis
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/WinHEC/ ... h-Analysis
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/WinHEC/ ... nalysis-II
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/WinHEC/ ... io-Offload

DeNi
Posts: 4
Joined: 12 Nov 2021, 17:44

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by DeNi » 17 Nov 2021, 18:36

timecard wrote:
17 Nov 2021, 00:21
The tools mentioned by Konstantin are part of the Windows Assessment and Deployment Kit (Windows ADK), the tool in the screenshot specifically is XE (Media eXperience Analyzer). I use both regularly but to understand them you'll need to do lots of reading and learning such as Windows Internals and just lots of time using the tools.
  • Windows Performance Toolkit - Includes xperf, windows performance analyzer and windows performance recorder
  • Media eXperience Analyzer
Download the appropriate one for your version of windows.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... dk-install

You can learn more for example reading blogs of Bruce Dawson (works at Google and previously Valve) who has shared many step by step processes for isolating random performance issues which includes things like overheating cpus causing performance issues invisible to most tools. Even someone like Bruce who spends countless hours in windows performance analyzer has said there's many issues that even he needs lots of time to identify root cause, he says you just need to dig around, read and eventually you'll get the answers. Main page: https://randomascii.wordpress.com/ or similarly related blog https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/ ... ge-gaming/

The screenshot itself is misleading, the gaps displayed are actually in seconds (2 second gap in processing which could have many causes, delays from disk, hardware issue, waiting on another thread/process such as a driver etc) but the tool has the capability of displaying much more granular points in time microseconds/nanoseconds. A 2 second gap would be extremely noticeable.

If you want real world examples of using Media eXperience Analyzer, see these official Microsoft videos part of the Defrag Tools sessions.

https://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Defrag- ... zer-part-1
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/WinHEC/ ... MXA-Part-2
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/WinHEC/ ... h-Analysis
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/WinHEC/ ... h-Analysis
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/WinHEC/ ... nalysis-II
https://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/WinHEC/ ... io-Offload


How to fix it?

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 17 Nov 2021, 19:18

DeNi wrote:
17 Nov 2021, 18:36
How to fix it?
No easy single fix. There are more than one million ways to fix computer problems caused by interference/EMI.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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dervu
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by dervu » 18 Nov 2021, 04:36

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
17 Nov 2021, 19:18
DeNi wrote:
17 Nov 2021, 18:36
How to fix it?
No easy single fix. There are more than one million ways to fix computer problems caused by interference/EMI.
Yes, if you have enough evidence, tests done that you are certain its EMI/RFI, then focus on finding source using AM radio yourself, ham radio club help, professional EMC companies. Myself I focus on what I have around me and what is the most probable thing.
Do not expect someone to post any universal fix costing pennies. If it is truly only interference and not some new uncharted territory in science, then finding source and killing it is your only option. Too many people have tried too many devices to block it, nothing ever works perfectly.
Ryzen 7950X3D / MSI GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming X Trio / ASUS TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS / 2x16GB DDR5@6000 G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279QM / Logitech G PRO X SUPERLIGHT / SkyPAD Glass 3.0 / Wooting 60HE / DT 700 PRO X || EMI Input lag issue survivor

DeNi
Posts: 4
Joined: 12 Nov 2021, 17:44

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by DeNi » 18 Nov 2021, 08:12

I think for me its not emi.I went to my friend and tried his pc with my monitor.Everything was soooo goooood.I past my videcard 1660ti to his pc and everything was good too.So this is not videocard.With his PC picture was much better.What it can be?Sry for my eng im from Russla.

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