High input lag and desync

Separate area for niche lag issues including unexpected causes and/or electromagnetic interference (ECC = retransmits = lag). Interference (EMI, EMF) of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction latencies like a bad modem connection. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI. Please read this before entering sub-forum.
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IMPORTANT:
This subforum is for advanced users only. This separate area is for niche or unexpected lag issues such as electromagnetic interference (EMI, EMF, electrical, radiofrequency, etc). Interference of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction (ECC) latencies like a bad modem connection, except internally in a circuit. ECC = retransmits = lag. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI.
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naporitan
Posts: 96
Joined: 09 Jun 2021, 06:16

Re: High input lag and desync i5 9600kf

Post by naporitan » 27 Sep 2021, 18:43

Literally says in the video i linked u that fans and fluorescent lights inject harmonics so and by ur statement i assume u tested it and it had no effect idk about calling my method nonsense there are is a video on the topic that calls out devices that inject harmonics idk mate my method is perfectly fine for injecting harmonics , but possibly u could share proof for why my method would be nonsense i mean since u seem to understand harmonics so much more than i do
In my power grid there are unknown anomalous distortions that cannot be reproduced manually.

naporitan
Posts: 96
Joined: 09 Jun 2021, 06:16

Re: High input lag and desync i5 9600kf

Post by naporitan » 27 Sep 2021, 18:52

Literally says in the video i linked u that fans and fluorescent lights inject harmonics so and by ur statement i assume u tested it and it had no effect idk about calling my method nonsense there are is a video on the topic that calls out devices that inject harmonics idk mate my method is perfectly fine for injecting harmonics , but possibly u could share proof for why my method would be nonsense i mean since u seem to understand harmonics so much more than i do
  • Important

Any nonlinear load from a simple induction motor, transformer and computer to a PWM converter and energy-saving lighting systems is a source of distortion emission into the power grid. Both reactive energy at the fundamental frequency of 50 Hz and non-fundamental higher harmonics flow freely between segments of one particular network, as well as between power grids regardless of their ownership and voltage level, which means no one is safe from electromagnetic distortion. Unfortunately, for all power grids without exception, the general rule remains that the more efficient, technologically advanced power equipment, the greater the source of harmonic disturbance emission it is in fact.

nick4567
Posts: 118
Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 19:55

Re: High input lag and desync i5 9600kf

Post by nick4567 » 27 Sep 2021, 19:19

naporitan wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 18:52
Literally says in the video i linked u that fans and fluorescent lights inject harmonics so and by ur statement i assume u tested it and it had no effect idk about calling my method nonsense there are is a video on the topic that calls out devices that inject harmonics idk mate my method is perfectly fine for injecting harmonics , but possibly u could share proof for why my method would be nonsense i mean since u seem to understand harmonics so much more than i do
  • Important

Any nonlinear load from a simple induction motor, transformer and computer to a PWM converter and energy-saving lighting systems is a source of distortion emission into the power grid. Both reactive energy at the fundamental frequency of 50 Hz and non-fundamental higher harmonics flow freely between segments of one particular network, as well as between power grids regardless of their ownership and voltage level, which means no one is safe from electromagnetic distortion. Unfortunately, for all power grids without exception, the general rule remains that the more efficient, technologically advanced power equipment, the greater the source of harmonic disturbance emission it is in fact.
chief if ur reading this he literally said my methods were ridiculous and then later points out (in 10 min btw) the same sources of harmonic producing devices i had said he could perform tests with, i need u to calm me down because if i continue replying to this guy theres a good chance ill get banned

naporitan
Posts: 96
Joined: 09 Jun 2021, 06:16

Re: High input lag and desync i5 9600kf

Post by naporitan » 27 Sep 2021, 19:21

chief if ur reading this he literally said my methods were ridiculous and then later points out (in 10 min btw) the same sources of harmonic producing devices i had said he could perform tests with, i need u to calm me down because if i continue replying to this guy theres a good chance ill get banned
you understand your method is nothing compared to the number of consumers...

nick4567
Posts: 118
Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 19:55

Re: High input lag and desync i5 9600kf

Post by nick4567 » 27 Sep 2021, 19:30

naporitan wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 19:21
chief if ur reading this he literally said my methods were ridiculous and then later points out (in 10 min btw) the same sources of harmonic producing devices i had said he could perform tests with, i need u to calm me down because if i continue replying to this guy theres a good chance ill get banned
you understand your method is nothing compared to the number of consumers...
no not true harmonics lose strength over distance so if u plug all the lights (in ur home) with fluorescents and max out all the fans at the same time u would recieve a strong effect and definitely strong enough to confirm if harmonics are the problem

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: High input lag and desync i5 9600kf

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 01 Oct 2021, 18:53

nick4567 wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 19:30
no not true harmonics lose strength over distance so if u plug all the lights (in ur home) with fluorescents and max out all the fans at the same time u would recieve a strong effect and definitely strong enough to confirm if harmonics are the problem
Not all fluorescents generate harmonics — some electronic ballasts have excellent power factor correction and doesn’t send any harmonics. I’ve seen a cheap smarthome dimmer also generate harmonics, while a high end Lutron smart dimmer did not, etc.

Also, harmonics can transmit over long distances if strong enough. A harmonic 100 miles away have caused blackouts before (e.g. unsynchronized power generation with AC waveforms slewing against each other, causing a safety mechanism to disconnect automatically from the high voltage transmission grid system). Power generating companies try to keep the 60Hz AC sine wave in sync with each other, with all the generating stations simultaneously synchronized on the entire grid, but it’s possible for them to go out of sync (a mega harmonic). Or somebody’s data centre emergency power generator accidentally shorted into the electrical grid at unsynchronized AC for a few moments (accidental harmonic ripples for a couple of city blocks) until its circuit breaker tripped. That brief harmonic pulse can cause a computer in other buildings nearby to crash. Weird electricity accidents happen unbeknownst to our knowledge all the time that can cause sufficiently-powerful harmonics to ripple fairly long distances — we’re talking about unsynchronized-generator-station harmonics rather than the weaker harmonics of a single motor. In some countries, the generator sync isn’t very good and harmonics ripple far distances, even from two AC curves only a few percent out of phase, or two AC curves bouncing back and fourth (1% ahead, 1% behind, 1% ahead, 1% behind) as two power stations struggle to synchronize to each other on the same grid. By dictionary definition, that falls under the description of a different kind of “haromonic” (even if not traditional harmonics).

Some EMI is many orders of magnitude more intense than other EMI. Not all EMI is the same. It’s a BIGGER difference than light-snow-flurries-for-30-seconds versus blizzard-of-the-century-everyday-24/7-for-a-week. The weakest EMI and the strongest EMI is a bigger difference than the distance between two planets and distance between two galaxies! It’s that BIG a universe of EMI strengths. What this means is that harmonics sufficiently powerful enough (e.g. power generator league) can ripple quite far, even if weaker harmonics fall off very fast.

And EMI may or may not involve harmonics. Both harmonic and non-harmonic EMI are both problems that can affect a computer when the interference is strong enough. They can also be transmitted wirelessly over the air (induction, EMF transmission, etc) — induction can be like a huge old poorly-shielded industrial motor starting up 12 inches away from a computer emitting spark-gap-transmitter style radiation like a well worn 1920s motor (e.g. computer above an apartment mechanical/boilerroom floor, or a computer room next door to large machinery, or the room adjacent to the computer room is an office building’s 10,000-amp electrical transformer room)

So it is possible both of you may be right (in different interpretations) — you’re just talking about different forms of EMI problems.

The EMI / EMF / interference universe is fantastically complex. If we were Geordi from Star Trek the Next Generation and could “see” interference as visible, we’d see over 10^100 different appearances and colors of interference at different kinds of brightness (from super dim candlelight a kilometer away, all the way to being next to a supernova). Interference is such a complex universe, that a simple EMF meter is only a tiny keyhole window that does not reveal even 1% of the nature of interference. Actually, EMF meters are literally only a needle hole the size of an atom — they are helpful but they don’t remotely give you a real picture of all possible kinds of EMI / EMF / interference that can happen worldwide.

It is very humbling.
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nick4567
Posts: 118
Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 19:55

Re: High input lag and desync i5 9600kf

Post by nick4567 » 02 Oct 2021, 00:02

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
01 Oct 2021, 18:53
nick4567 wrote:
27 Sep 2021, 19:30
no not true harmonics lose strength over distance so if u plug all the lights (in ur home) with fluorescents and max out all the fans at the same time u would recieve a strong effect and definitely strong enough to confirm if harmonics are the problem
Not all fluorescents generate harmonics — some electronic ballasts have excellent power factor correction and doesn’t send any harmonics. I’ve seen a cheap smarthome dimmer also generate harmonics, while a high end Lutron smart dimmer did not, etc.

Also, harmonics can transmit over long distances if strong enough. A harmonic 100 miles away have caused blackouts before (e.g. unsynchronized power generation with AC waveforms slewing against each other, causing a safety mechanism to disconnect automatically from the high voltage transmission grid system). Power generating companies try to keep the 60Hz AC sine wave in sync with each other, with all the generating stations simultaneously synchronized on the entire grid, but it’s possible for them to go out of sync (a mega harmonic). Or somebody’s data centre emergency power generator accidentally shorted into the electrical grid at unsynchronized AC for a few moments (accidental harmonic ripples for a couple of city blocks) until its circuit breaker tripped. That brief harmonic pulse can cause a computer in other buildings nearby to crash. Weird electricity accidents happen unbeknownst to our knowledge all the time that can cause sufficiently-powerful harmonics to ripple fairly long distances — we’re talking about unsynchronized-generator-station harmonics rather than the weaker harmonics of a single motor. In some countries, the generator sync isn’t very good and harmonics ripple far distances, even from two AC curves only a few percent out of phase, or two AC curves bouncing back and fourth (1% ahead, 1% behind, 1% ahead, 1% behind) as two power stations struggle to synchronize to each other on the same grid. By dictionary definition, that falls under the description of a different kind of “haromonic” (even if not traditional harmonics).

Some EMI is many orders of magnitude more intense than other EMI. Not all EMI is the same. It’s a BIGGER difference than light-snow-flurries-for-30-seconds versus blizzard-of-the-century-everyday-24/7-for-a-week. The weakest EMI and the strongest EMI is a bigger difference than the distance between two planets and distance between two galaxies! It’s that BIG a universe of EMI strengths. What this means is that harmonics sufficiently powerful enough (e.g. power generator league) can ripple quite far, even if weaker harmonics fall off very fast.

And EMI may or may not involve harmonics. Both harmonic and non-harmonic EMI are both problems that can affect a computer when the interference is strong enough. They can also be transmitted wirelessly over the air (induction, EMF transmission, etc) — induction can be like a huge old poorly-shielded industrial motor starting up 12 inches away from a computer emitting spark-gap-transmitter style radiation like a well worn 1920s motor (e.g. computer above an apartment mechanical/boilerroom floor, or a computer room next door to large machinery, or the room adjacent to the computer room is an office building’s 10,000-amp electrical transformer room)

So it is possible both of you may be right (in different interpretations) — you’re just talking about different forms of EMI problems.

The EMI / EMF / interference universe is fantastically complex. If we were Geordi from Star Trek the Next Generation and could “see” interference as visible, we’d see over 10^100 different appearances and colors of interference at different kinds of brightness (from super dim candlelight a kilometer away, all the way to being next to a supernova). Interference is such a complex universe, that a simple EMF meter is only a tiny keyhole window that does not reveal even 1% of the nature of interference. Actually, EMF meters are literally only a needle hole the size of an atom — they are helpful but they don’t remotely give you a real picture of all possible kinds of EMI / EMF / interference that can happen worldwide.

It is very humbling.
All of this is true that little meter i posted is vastly different from say an industrial model spectrum analyzer, the harmonic distortion if caused by something like the data center example wouldnt cause long term lag problems, harmonics are generally a more destructive problem in the sense that they would destroy the smps of certain devices. My bet is most people in this forum are struggling with some combination of over air/ coupled to wire interference, if it were the case of unsynced substations there are strict regulations for that in any non-third world country. A simple phone call to the power company with the threat of fcc (or regulatory body of the victims respective country) intervention should straighten things out anyways. The conversion to dc power would straighten up any harmonics. The only theory that really makes sense here is interference however the field would have to be strong enough to penetrate the chasis, which also kinda hard to get a field of that strength going on. There are some mitigation techniques me and some other users in this discord im in have used (most of us have had alot of success with these) in that the problem is way less apparent but still not perfect but definitely enjoyable we still have some more tests to perform and in the near future will share our research to this subforum (very promising stuff btw most in here will get permanent alleviation). Also i would like to thank you chief for not just dismissing us as tin foil hat wearers and taking this problem seriously with active engagements in the community even though it is not in ur realm of expertise u still provide valuable insights. honestly uve been great though i think more experts should post here currently 99% of the posts on the threads are people describing symptoms which have already been well described instead of possible solutions. Possibly if u know someone who is more well versed in emc compliance to take a look and offer insights on mitigation strategies.

naporitan
Posts: 96
Joined: 09 Jun 2021, 06:16

Re: High input lag and desync i5 9600kf

Post by naporitan » 02 Oct 2021, 02:23

Also, harmonics can transmit over long distances if strong enough. A harmonic 100 miles away have caused blackouts before (e.g. unsynchronized power generation with AC waveforms slewing against each other, causing a safety mechanism to disconnect automatically from the high voltage transmission grid system). Power generating companies try to keep the 60Hz AC sine wave in sync with each other, with all the generating stations simultaneously synchronized on the entire grid, but it’s possible for them to go out of sync (a mega harmonic). Or somebody’s data centre emergency power generator accidentally shorted into the electrical grid at unsynchronized AC for a few moments (accidental harmonic ripples for a couple of city blocks) until its circuit breaker tripped. That brief harmonic pulse can cause a computer in other buildings nearby to crash. Weird electricity accidents happen unbeknownst to our knowledge all the time that can cause sufficiently-powerful harmonics to ripple fairly long distances — we’re talking about unsynchronized-generator-station harmonics rather than the weaker harmonics of a single motor. In some countries, the generator sync isn’t very good and harmonics ripple far distances, even from two AC curves only a few percent out of phase, or two AC curves bouncing back and fourth (1% ahead, 1% behind, 1% ahead, 1% behind) as two power stations struggle to synchronize to each other on the same grid. By dictionary definition, that falls under the description of a different kind of “haromonic” (even if not traditional harmonics).
I ordered a harmonic filter, let's see what happens, it crushes all harmonics across the frequency spectrum.

nick4567
Posts: 118
Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 19:55

Re: High input lag and desync i5 9600kf

Post by nick4567 » 02 Oct 2021, 03:09

naporitan wrote:
02 Oct 2021, 02:23
Also, harmonics can transmit over long distances if strong enough. A harmonic 100 miles away have caused blackouts before (e.g. unsynchronized power generation with AC waveforms slewing against each other, causing a safety mechanism to disconnect automatically from the high voltage transmission grid system). Power generating companies try to keep the 60Hz AC sine wave in sync with each other, with all the generating stations simultaneously synchronized on the entire grid, but it’s possible for them to go out of sync (a mega harmonic). Or somebody’s data centre emergency power generator accidentally shorted into the electrical grid at unsynchronized AC for a few moments (accidental harmonic ripples for a couple of city blocks) until its circuit breaker tripped. That brief harmonic pulse can cause a computer in other buildings nearby to crash. Weird electricity accidents happen unbeknownst to our knowledge all the time that can cause sufficiently-powerful harmonics to ripple fairly long distances — we’re talking about unsynchronized-generator-station harmonics rather than the weaker harmonics of a single motor. In some countries, the generator sync isn’t very good and harmonics ripple far distances, even from two AC curves only a few percent out of phase, or two AC curves bouncing back and fourth (1% ahead, 1% behind, 1% ahead, 1% behind) as two power stations struggle to synchronize to each other on the same grid. By dictionary definition, that falls under the description of a different kind of “haromonic” (even if not traditional harmonics).
I ordered a harmonic filter, let's see what happens, it crushes all harmonics across the frequency spectrum.
Wow this guy is willing to disprove the harmonic theory right in front of my own eyes im proud of u mate but u should link this harmonic filter u bought so i can look at it and tell u if it actually does something or not generally speaking its quite hard to filter harmonics and is cost ineffective to make a harmonic filter generally the only “semi economical” way of filtering harmonics is to charge a battery through ac and convert the dc from the battery back into ac using an inverter

Odeii430
Posts: 5
Joined: 05 Oct 2021, 16:31

Re: High input lag and desync i5 9600kf

Post by Odeii430 » 05 Oct 2021, 17:24

How i can contact, im also from rus, with the same problem

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