Big Lithium Batteries can solve Bad Electricity Problems (UPS lasting 8 hours)

Separate area for niche lag issues including unexpected causes and/or electromagnetic interference (ECC = retransmits = lag). Interference (EMI, EMF) of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction latencies like a bad modem connection. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI. Please read this before entering sub-forum.
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IMPORTANT:
This subforum is for advanced users only. This separate area is for niche or unexpected lag issues such as electromagnetic interference (EMI, EMF, electrical, radiofrequency, etc). Interference of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction (ECC) latencies like a bad modem connection, except internally in a circuit. ECC = retransmits = lag. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI.
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Big Lithium Batteries can solve Bad Electricity Problems (UPS lasting 8 hours)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 03 Oct 2021, 13:31

From a private message from an undisclosed person, I wanted to relay someone who posted links to gaming performance improvements caused by running a gaming PC off a generator. Which is polluting, noisy, and can't be used in an apartments.

Crazy stuff, but there's legitimacy because many grids have bad electricity in some countries that adds interference of all kinds to the system. You might not care if you're in Canada, but you might care if you're in Elbonia or Sealand or Whateverikstian and are unlucky.
https://youtu.be/v9P79z_aWMo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUVp26ov_Yg
https://streamable.com/u4t1d4

[snip]
Obviously in terms of ideal-ness no one is crazy enough to run a generator while gaming 24/7 but man looking at this kinda makes u realize how much of a handicap this is and why people want it fixed so badly lol, btw ground loops are common interference antennas
[snip]
Indeed, many of us are lucky not to have this problem, but I've seen a computer lagged (via error correction storms) by intensely bad electricity / interference on the grid before from the reasons I've described personally. I can vouch that sometimes a generator can help. There are over 200 countries in the world and many thousands of cities. Not all electricity grids produce very clean electricity.

I should add that "generators" should include large power banks. In 10 years from now, these will become more popular than gas-powered generators.

This is a huge booming area -- portable lunchbox-size and cooler-size battery. Like a cellphone power bank on steroids for your AC power plugs -- including your gaming computer.

Battery Power Banks with AC Outlets Powering Whole Esports Desktop Gaming Rigs

Image

There's currently a big boom of portable battery power stations, for camping, but these batteries work fine with gaming rigs:

- New York Times: Best Portable Power Stations
- Popular Science - Portable Power Stations

There has been a huge boom of cheap Tesla PowerWall crowd funded projects too (with prices cheaper than an RTX-powered gaming PC). There's several new 2 kilowatt batteries that can power a gaming PC for 6-8 hours on IndieGoGo:

- EP500&EP500Pro - The New Era of Home Backup Power
- MONSTER X: The Future of Portable Power Stations
- Bluetti AC200 - Most Versatile Solar Power Station

You disconnect from the grid, and be powered completely off more flawless electricity from your very own cheap offgrid battery!

When these power stations fall below $1000 they will become more popular accessories for problem-prone households (bad electricity grids in some parts of the world).

The cost of lithium batteries have been like an up-side-down rocket in the last 10 years:

Image
Credit: ArsTechnica Battery Price Dropping Fast

The boom of electric vehicles (Tesla) has ignited kind of a new Moore's Law curve on battery capacity that can be purchased per dollar. Seismic changes are afoot that will affect everything else.

By 2030-ish, a kilowatt-hour lithium battery will cost ~$60 at factory cost (citation), with some insiders finding a path to $30 per kilowatt hour by 2040s.

Like an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) Except With 8 Hour Battery Life For PC Rig

Depending on the installed GPU, you need 2-3 kilowatt-hours to power a gaming PC for about 6-8 hours. In that era, a cooler box battery with 2-3 kilowatts for between $500-$1000 still generates (pun) enough profit for the seller of the battery, and can power a gaming PC all day long.

Also, at these prices (and higher daytime electricity rates in some countries), it becomes cheaper to recharge the battery at night (time of use rates). Lithium Ion Phosphate batteries can have 10,000 charge cycles, so amortizing one charge is no longer as ruinous/deleterious when your camping battery lasts more than a decade instead of a smartphone 2-3 years.

No emissions, no noise! That's why I say eventually, portable cooler-sized lithium batteries will become more popular than gas generators, and can power a gaming PC all day long even indoors in an apartment and do it without upsetting landlord.

Besides, blackouts occur everyday or every week in some places where gamers live. Some of us are unlucky with frequent blackouts. So bonus, bonus, we keep gaming through these blackouts with these 8-hour-long UPS boxes! So there are other reasons other than reduced interference, too.

I'm predicting this boom of cheaper multihours-long UPS batteries which will be popular by 2030s or 2040s because they're convenient.
- While at home, use it as a UPS for your PC
- Survive blackouts better
- Save money on electricity (charge at night when electricity rates are low)
- Bring the battery with you when you're camping
- Avoid bad electricity (it's just an additional bonus)
- Etc.

One battery. Flexible. All the above conveniences.

This isn't a joke.

Update (2022): Electrically Isolating Your Rig Away From Earth Ground

For things like: Ground fault, ground noise, missing ground, etc.

Some electrical problems creating EMI is caused by a defective ground / ground fault / ground EMI in your building. Even minor grounding issues. Often it's an apartment building where you can't get the landlord to fix the electricity if it is not causing problems for everyone else.

To do this, put everything (offgrid battery, desk legs, chair, your feet) on a non-conductive surface like a large thick plastic mat. Completely unplug everything away from the outside world (no power wires, no Ethernet wires, no phone wires, no cable wires). Your only link to the outside world should always be WiFi or optical fiber (With no copper). A good electrically-isolated replacement for Ethernet is a pair of Ethernet media converters plus some simple OM3 fiber. (Total outlay: $100). It's okay to have OM3 optical fiber cable reach your electrically isolated bubble for your rig above Earth ground, as OM3 cable is essentially immune to EMI.

This means your offgrid battery must be disconnected completely from the grid too. Everything floating off Earth ground, to avoid any unfixable ground faults. Nothing metal/wire touching the outside world.

It's the same principle as live line working (electrical workers touching a half-million-volt line safely in mid-air because they aren't standing on Planet Earth too = electricity flows to the ground).

Float yourself and your rig electrically from ground = remove ground-related EMI = increase the chances you solve your mysterious EMI problem.

WARNING: Shock hazard if your grounding problem is severe (you should report to your landlord / power company / etc). Lift your rig off Earth ground ONLY if you have no other choice, and are willing to take the electrical risks. Remember there can be a shock hazard everytime you step onto your ground bubble, and step off your ground bubble. Make the non-conductive/plastic mat large enough to step off the Earth (e.g. partially conductive floor) before sitting down at your electrically-isolated rig. You don't want to be touching the ground bubble, and the real Earth ground, at the same time -- if there's a large voltage differential between the grounds (the Earth ground and the floating ground).

Floating grounds (creating a ground bubble separated from Earth ground) can also make things worse too so it's only recommended if your building's ground is so terrible that a floating ground is a lesser of evil. So don't take this as boilerplate advice. Floating ground can also be attempted with ongrid operation (no battery) with a cheater plug. Caveat emptor.
Compromise can include A power conditioner / other equipment may help, in conjunction to this, since floating grounds can have variable voltages from internal EMI effects.

This Is Not A Guarantee. This Won't Fix Non-EMI Problems

You will increase your odds massively from less-than-1% chance of fixing your EMI related problem, to probably more-than-a-10% chance of fixing your problem. Remember if only 25 out of 100 fix their problem through this forum thread, that's still 75 people who may complain their problem is not fixed.

Wiring yourself to a separate, better ground (e.g. metal pipe that is known to go deep into the Earth) could also be an alternative. Connect to the least bad ground you can get, before you attempt to float off the ground, if there is no other option possible, and you are willing to take the risks.

EMI Can Also Often Affect The Quality of Internet On Your Router

Also EMI problems in a building can also be concurrently affecting your Internet connection, so try an LTE modem too -- some players get better esports over LTE than over an interference-prone Internet connection (DSL jitter, cable jitter, etc) caused by the same building's EMI noise affecting the modem equipment. You can attempt to bring the router into your lifted-ground bubble, but that risks adding a conductor (telephone wire or coaxial cable wire) to the outside world. You could create two bubbles (one for your router bubble, battery powering your router) and WiFi/optical to your computer rig bubble.

In some cases, you can try your best and also attempt to offgrid your modem equipment in a separate ground bubble (e.g. UPS-battery-powered router that only touches outside world via the DSL wire or the coaxial cable), but you still want to WiFi/optical hop it over to your compute rig ground bubble. Basically two lifted-ground bubble of EMI safety, with an air gap in between. That may reduce your DSL/cable noise further by separating electrical-wire EMI a little bit more away from your Internet stuff.

EMI can also still interfere with the Internet outside the building, so you may have to play ISP roulette -- trying FTTH, cable, DSL, LTE. And you can't fix Internet problems further away from you. This can get horrendously complicated to try to fix it all, but at least you have some options to try if you have money and don't want to move.
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naporitan
Posts: 96
Joined: 09 Jun 2021, 06:16

Re: Big Lithium Batteries can solve Bad Electricity Problems (UPS lasting 8 hours)

Post by naporitan » 03 Oct 2021, 17:33

The problem is that if you charge the battery from bad electricity, then the efficiency of these batteries drops over time.

nyxo100
Posts: 109
Joined: 17 Mar 2021, 01:53

Re: Big Lithium Batteries can solve Bad Electricity Problems (UPS lasting 8 hours)

Post by nyxo100 » 03 Oct 2021, 19:21

this issue makes my days so depressing i know this is not gonna be fixed in my country... the videos look the same as me when the input lag is there... somedays are ok but most of the time it's like shit unplayable we can only wait and hope that the batteries come down a bit in price to be able to play decently.

nick4567
Posts: 118
Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 19:55

Re: Big Lithium Batteries can solve Bad Electricity Problems (UPS lasting 8 hours)

Post by nick4567 » 03 Oct 2021, 19:30

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
03 Oct 2021, 13:31
From a private message from an undisclosed person, I wanted to relay someone who posted links to gaming performance improvements caused by running a gaming PC off a generator. Which is polluting, noisy, and can't be used in an apartments.

Crazy stuff, but there's legitimacy because many grids have bad electricity in some countries that adds interference of all kinds to the system. You might not care if you're in Canada, but you might care if you're in Elbonia or Sealand or Whateverikstian and are unlucky.
https://youtu.be/v9P79z_aWMo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUVp26ov_Yg
https://streamable.com/u4t1d4

[snip]
Obviously in terms of ideal-ness no one is crazy enough to run a generator while gaming 24/7 but man looking at this kinda makes u realize how much of a handicap this is and why people want it fixed so badly lol, btw ground loops are common interference antennas
[snip]
Indeed, many of us are lucky not to have this problem, but I've seen a computer lagged (via error correction storms) by intensely bad electricity / interference on the grid before from the reasons I've described personally. I can vouch that sometimes a generator can help. There are over 200 countries in the world and many thousands of cities. Not all electricity grids produce very clean electricity.

I should add that "generators" should include large power banks. In 10 years from now, these will become more popular than gas-powered generators.

This is a huge booming area -- portable lunchbox-size and cooler-size battery. Like a cellphone power bank on steroids for your AC power plugs -- including your gaming computer.

Battery Power Banks with AC Outlets Powering Whole Esports Desktop Gaming Rigs

Image

There's currently a big boom of portable battery power stations, for camping, but these batteries work fine with gaming rigs:

- New York Times: Best Portable Power Stations
- Popular Science - Portable Power Stations

There has been a huge boom of cheap Tesla PowerWall crowd funded projects too (with prices cheaper than an RTX-powered gaming PC). There's several new 2 kilowatt batteries that can power a gaming PC for 6-8 hours on IndieGoGo:

- EP500&EP500Pro - The New Era of Home Backup Power
- MONSTER X: The Future of Portable Power Stations
- Bluetti AC200 - Most Versatile Solar Power Station

You disconnect from the grid, and be powered completely off more flawless electricity from your very own cheap offgrid battery!

When these power stations fall below $1000 they will become more popular accessories for problem-prone households (bad electricity grids in some parts of the world).

The cost of lithium batteries have been like an up-side-down rocket in the last 10 years:

Image
Credit: ArsTechnica Battery Price Dropping Fast

The boom of electric vehicles (Tesla) has ignited kind of a new Moore's Law curve on battery capacity that can be purchased per dollar. Seismic changes are afoot that will affect everything else.

By 2030-ish, a kilowatt-hour lithium battery will cost ~$60 at factory cost (citation), with some insiders finding a path to $30 per kilowatt hour by 2040s.

Like an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) Except With 8 Hour Battery Life For PC Rig

Depending on the installed GPU, you need 2-3 kilowatt-hours to power a gaming PC for about 6-8 hours. In that era, a cooler box battery with 2-3 kilowatts for between $500-$1000 still generates (pun) enough profit for the seller of the battery, and can power a gaming PC all day long.

Also, at these prices (and higher daytime electricity rates in some countries), it becomes cheaper to recharge the battery at night (time of use rates). Lithium Ion Phosphate batteries can have 10,000 charge cycles, so amortizing one charge is no longer as ruinous/deleterious when your camping battery lasts more than a decade instead of a smartphone 2-3 years.

No emissions, no noise! That's why I say eventually, portable cooler-sized lithium batteries will become more popular than gas generators, and can power a gaming PC all day long even indoors in an apartment and do it without upsetting landlord.

Besides, blackouts occur everyday or every week in some places where gamers live. Some of us are unlucky with frequent blackouts. So bonus, bonus, we keep gaming through these blackouts with these 8-hour-long UPS boxes! So there are other reasons other than reduced interference, too.

I'm predicting this boom of cheaper multihours-long UPS batteries which will be popular by 2030s or 2040s because they're convenient.
- While at home, use it as a UPS for your PC
- Survive blackouts better
- Save money on electricity (charge at night when electricity rates are low)
- Bring the battery with you when you're camping
- Avoid bad electricity (it's just an additional bonus)
- Etc.

One battery. Flexible. All the above conveniences.

This isn't a joke.
Beautiful post chief i might add that switching off the circuit in ur room after charging the the battery would mitigate interference as well (2 walls are better than 1 as a shield even though the walls are made of wood and not exactly ideal for shielding)

naporitan
Posts: 96
Joined: 09 Jun 2021, 06:16

Re: Big Lithium Batteries can solve Bad Electricity Problems (UPS lasting 8 hours)

Post by naporitan » 03 Oct 2021, 21:50

and to call it a solution to the problem is wrong, because it is not a solution to the problem.
It is better to go to an electric laboratory, they provide services for measuring the quality of electricity and, based on the readings received, demand that the electricity supplier take measures...

nick4567
Posts: 118
Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 19:55

Re: Big Lithium Batteries can solve Bad Electricity Problems (UPS lasting 8 hours)

Post by nick4567 » 03 Oct 2021, 23:39

naporitan wrote:
03 Oct 2021, 21:50
and to call it a solution to the problem is wrong, because it is not a solution to the problem.
It is better to go to an electric laboratory, they provide services for measuring the quality of electricity and, based on the readings received, demand that the electricity supplier take measures...
Dont u have a regulatory body similar to the fcc where ur from, call them they love to go after companies (especially when a fine is involved)

naporitan
Posts: 96
Joined: 09 Jun 2021, 06:16

Re: Big Lithium Batteries can solve Bad Electricity Problems (UPS lasting 8 hours)

Post by naporitan » 03 Oct 2021, 23:49

Dont u have a regulatory body similar to the fcc where ur from, call them they love to go after companies (especially when a fine is involved)
I tried, but it didn't work... They said they would come and take measurements, but no one came...
phpBB [video]

Zenskas
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Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 01:06

Re: Big Lithium Batteries can solve Bad Electricity Problems (UPS lasting 8 hours)

Post by Zenskas » 04 Oct 2021, 01:26

Thankyou for this post Chief :D

I have been suffering from some form of EMI/RF interference in my house for over a year now which started completely at random in my current house after never having experienced these issues in over 25 years of computer use at 8 different houses I've lived in.
It is causing input lag and stutter on all modern machines that have been tested from my computer collection. I own over 100 desktop and laptop computers ranging from machines made in the 80's through to my main gaming PC that was custom built by yours truly late last year. But I have not yet properly tested machines and CRT monitors older than 10 years.

I know it is local interference after much money and time was spent attempting to resolve, I isolated it by simply moving some computers/monitors/peripherals/cables to another location just 1 kilometer away and on the same grid - which completely fixes my issues. I then tried multiple locations in my town and all have been drastically better than my current residence. My current residence also gets noticeably better late at night between around 11pm - 7am.

I will be posting more information on what has been tried, what has helped somewhat, what hasn't, and my plans going forward. There is a possibility I will look at getting a solar array and large battery backup like you have suggested, as this would be the best way to isolate my computer from a physical connection to my mains electricity lines which I suspect is bringing the interference in. It is still quite expensive but if it fixes the issue and provides many other benefits then it could be worth it in the long run!

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Re: Big Lithium Batteries can solve Bad Electricity Problems (UPS lasting 8 hours)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 06 Oct 2021, 01:38

naporitan wrote:
03 Oct 2021, 17:33
The problem is that if you charge the battery from bad electricity, then the efficiency of these batteries drops over time.
False.

Bad electricity is never “stored”.

The inverters may degrade though, but the cells itself are perfect filters.

EDIT for clarification: Caveat added (interpretation) in subsequent post where bad electricity has a domino effect on battery longevity.
The FALSE point is that batteries are not tape-players on electricity waveforms.
The TRUE point is bad electricity can still degrade inverters/chargers that consequently degrade batteries, in a domino effect.
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Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
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Joined: 09 Jun 2021, 06:16

Re: Big Lithium Batteries can solve Bad Electricity Problems (UPS lasting 8 hours)

Post by naporitan » 06 Oct 2021, 03:21

False.

Bad electricity is never “stored”.

The inverters may degrade though, but the cells itself are perfect filters.
Not a lie.

Reactive power causes the batteries to overheat and thus lose efficiency.

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