USB sparks

Separate area for niche lag issues including unexpected causes and/or electromagnetic interference (ECC = retransmits = lag). Interference (EMI, EMF) of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction latencies like a bad modem connection. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI. Please read this before entering sub-forum.
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MegaMelmek
Posts: 235
Joined: 21 Jan 2021, 12:54

USB sparks

Post by MegaMelmek » 22 Jan 2022, 13:40

Find something strange and maybe this will solve mine input lag one day.... I purchase USB HUB D-Link it has its own power supply (5V 3A) when i try to plug in to PC usb (with headset on my head) the pc play the sound just when i touch the case - not solid plug in. So i discover that its sparking as on the video i add.(its not mine video but the sparks looks same its realy hard to record that)
When i play around with these sparks i am able to shut down RGB on the mouse with them and also my monitor go black.

If my appartmen is not able to operate simple adapter 5V 3A how regular 750W PSU can even work? To my knowledge they are the same just the PC one deliver more Amps and differnt voltage.
Did not find much on internet about it.

Video with sparks from USB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCZFmRYKxYg
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delve
Posts: 146
Joined: 15 Aug 2020, 05:24

Re: USB sparks

Post by delve » 26 Jan 2022, 21:49

I would try another usb hub in your case and see if it still happens. Those symptoms are super weird.

I can create small sparks by holding the displayport cable connector against metal parts near the ports of my monitor. I also thought it could be related to the problem and maybe has something to do with grounding? Yet a ground lift definitely isn't fixing my issues (lag changes, overall smoothness, desync), but it still has an significant impact on how the mouse feels.

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: USB sparks

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 15 Feb 2022, 15:07

It's a grounding problem
It has nothing to do with the voltage or the current.
MegaMelmek wrote: ↑
22 Jan 2022, 13:40
If my appartmen is not able to operate simple adapter 5V 3A how regular 750W PSU can even work? To my knowledge they are the same just the PC one deliver more Amps and differnt voltage.
Did not find much on internet about it.
Possible ground fault problem in your building.
It's not the voltage or amps, but the grounding potential is different on your monitor's case and the USB plug enclosure.

Possible Cause #1 -- Defective USB Grounding
Or it can also be a warranty issue, if it only affects 1 USB plug or 1 USB hub
There are also, of course, OTHER reasons why this happens, but grounding problems is surprisingly common. Like a defective power supply in one of your devices that is incorrectly shorted to your device's ground. Grounds are supposed to have 0 volts in them, but the problem is your monitor's metal case (supposed to be 0 volts) has a ground voltage differential than your USB plug (outer metal supposed to 0 volts).

If your USB accessory is malfunctioning and is short-circuiting the 5 volts to the ground metal (warranty defect in manufacture of USB cable, or USB hub, or USB accessory) -- what happens is you just created a short circuit when the metal touches and everything goes black. Squeal madly to customer service and get a replacement for the defective USB part!

If it is just 1 cable, replace the cable
If it is just 1 hub (a different hub doesn't spark), replace the hub
If everything USB sparks, you may have a Possible Cause #2 (read below)

Possible Cause #2 -- Grounding Faults In Your Apartment

Get your landlord to fix it. Get a cheap electrical ground tester.
Report the grounding problem to your landlord. Depending on where you live, your country's laws may mean it's illegal to have a grounding problem, and therefore your landlord's responsibility. But if laws are lax and nothing will be done, here's a solution below:

Workaround:
You say you live in an apartment.
Step #1 -- Plug everything into the same power bar (including the USB accessories and USB hubs), don't use different power outlets. A power conditioner can help (including some higher end uninterruptible power supply (UPS). Plug one power bar to one power outlet, and plug everything into the power bar / UPS / whatever. Just make sure only one wire of any kind is exiting your bubble (the power cord). This ensures that all devices are sharing the same (semi-defective ground) if you can't fix your apartment building ground faults.
Step #2 -- Use a non-conductive mat under your computer desk (huge plastic mat under your desk's feet, your feet, and your chair's feet. When everything is connected to a power bar to only ONE power outlet, and you've floated yourself away from the Earth's ground voltage potential. If you can't do a nonconductive mat, put nonconductive feet on your desk (if it's metal feet), and wear dry, thick rubber shoes to isolate your human body away from the floor's electrical ground potential. You've created bubble of equal grounding potential between yourself, your USB accessory, and your USB ports. You need to lift your computer, your USB accessories, and your human body away from an unfixable ground fault problem -- a bubble of equalized voltage potential. Avoid Ethernet cables, telephone wires, use WiFi only (plug the WiFi router somewhere else), and have only one wire going out of your office desk electrical bubble -- to one power outlet. Then any unsafe voltages are pretty much lifted to the same voltage potentials, and no shocks occurs.

Does This Really Work To Eliminate Sparks? Yes!
It's the same principle how humans can safely touch half a millon volts if your body is touching the planet earth (helicoptor inspection of high voltage transmission lines) -- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -body.html -- and YouTube example. You get killed instantly only if electricity is able to flow from point A to point B. But here, a human is safely doing maintenance work a live bare-metal wire, live wire with over half a million volts flowing through it! Because there is a 0-volt difference between the power wire and the human! It's the difference in voltage potential that is dangerous.

phpBB [video]


So what you're doing is creating a bubble to equalize all the grounding voltages (zero-out voltage differences in all the grounds by powering everything off only one power wire which becomes your reference! This also works for missing grounds, if you're powering a whole rig off a 2-prong outlet with a "cheater plug") -- isolating your computer equipment/desk and your human body from the ground, and using only one power outlet as the reference voltage for your entire computer. No other wires exiting your electrical bubble, except one power cord to your desk's power bar powering everything (computer, USB accessories, monitor, desklamp, etc).

In a building with defective electric wiring for ground, you have to do this because sometime Apartment Power Outlet #1 is a slightly different ground voltage than Apartment Power Outlet #2. And sometimes both Apartment Power Outlets are a different grounding voltage potential than your room's floor!! Boom, spark time! So create a bubble of equal grounding potential to avoid this problem. If the voltage is different from ANY of them (Ground of Power Outlet #1, Ground of Power Outlet #2, and Ground of your floor), power can flow from point A to B, and a spark occurs!

But only do this if your landlord refuses to do anything to fix your building's electricity.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
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Slender
Posts: 573
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: USB sparks

Post by Slender » 16 Feb 2022, 09:57

Chief Blur Buster wrote: ↑
15 Feb 2022, 15:07
It's a grounding problem
It has nothing to do with the voltage or the current.
MegaMelmek wrote: ↑
22 Jan 2022, 13:40
If my appartmen is not able to operate simple adapter 5V 3A how regular 750W PSU can even work? To my knowledge they are the same just the PC one deliver more Amps and differnt voltage.
Did not find much on internet about it.
Possible ground fault problem in your building.
It's not the voltage or amps, but the grounding potential is different on your monitor's case and the USB plug enclosure.

Possible Cause #1 -- Defective USB Grounding
Or it can also be a warranty issue, if it only affects 1 USB plug or 1 USB hub
There are also, of course, OTHER reasons why this happens, but grounding problems is surprisingly common. Like a defective power supply in one of your devices that is incorrectly shorted to your device's ground. Grounds are supposed to have 0 volts in them, but the problem is your monitor's metal case (supposed to be 0 volts) has a ground voltage differential than your USB plug (outer metal supposed to 0 volts).

If your USB accessory is malfunctioning and is short-circuiting the 5 volts to the ground metal (warranty defect in manufacture of USB cable, or USB hub, or USB accessory) -- what happens is you just created a short circuit when the metal touches and everything goes black. Squeal madly to customer service and get a replacement for the defective USB part!

If it is just 1 cable, replace the cable
If it is just 1 hub (a different hub doesn't spark), replace the hub
If everything USB sparks, you may have a Possible Cause #2 (read below)

Possible Cause #2 -- Grounding Faults In Your Apartment

Get your landlord to fix it. Get a cheap electrical ground tester.
Report the grounding problem to your landlord. Depending on where you live, your country's laws may mean it's illegal to have a grounding problem, and therefore your landlord's responsibility. But if laws are lax and nothing will be done, here's a solution below:

Workaround:
You say you live in an apartment.
Step #1 -- Plug everything into the same power bar (including the USB accessories and USB hubs), don't use different power outlets. A power conditioner can help (including some higher end uninterruptible power supply (UPS). Plug one power bar to one power outlet, and plug everything into the power bar / UPS / whatever. Just make sure only one wire of any kind is exiting your bubble (the power cord). This ensures that all devices are sharing the same (semi-defective ground) if you can't fix your apartment building ground faults.
Step #2 -- Use a non-conductive mat under your computer desk (huge plastic mat under your desk's feet, your feet, and your chair's feet. When everything is connected to a power bar to only ONE power outlet, and you've floated yourself away from the Earth's ground voltage potential. If you can't do a nonconductive mat, put nonconductive feet on your desk (if it's metal feet), and wear dry, thick rubber shoes to isolate your human body away from the floor's electrical ground potential. You've created bubble of equal grounding potential between yourself, your USB accessory, and your USB ports. You need to lift your computer, your USB accessories, and your human body away from an unfixable ground fault problem -- a bubble of equalized voltage potential. Avoid Ethernet cables, telephone wires, use WiFi only (plug the WiFi router somewhere else), and have only one wire going out of your office desk electrical bubble -- to one power outlet. Then any unsafe voltages are pretty much lifted to the same voltage potentials, and no shocks occurs.

Does This Really Work To Eliminate Sparks? Yes!
It's the same principle how humans can safely touch half a millon volts if your body is touching the planet earth (helicoptor inspection of high voltage transmission lines) -- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -body.html -- and YouTube example. You get killed instantly only if electricity is able to flow from point A to point B. But here, a human is safely doing maintenance work a live bare-metal wire, live wire with over half a million volts flowing through it! Because there is a 0-volt difference between the power wire and the human! It's the difference in voltage potential that is dangerous.

phpBB [video]


So what you're doing is creating a bubble to equalize all the grounding voltages (zero-out voltage differences in all the grounds by powering everything off only one power wire which becomes your reference! This also works for missing grounds, if you're powering a whole rig off a 2-prong outlet with a "cheater plug") -- isolating your computer equipment/desk and your human body from the ground, and using only one power outlet as the reference voltage for your entire computer. No other wires exiting your electrical bubble, except one power cord to your desk's power bar powering everything (computer, USB accessories, monitor, desklamp, etc).

In a building with defective electric wiring for ground, you have to do this because sometime Apartment Power Outlet #1 is a slightly different ground voltage than Apartment Power Outlet #2. And sometimes both Apartment Power Outlets are a different grounding voltage potential than your room's floor!! Boom, spark time! So create a bubble of equal grounding potential to avoid this problem. If the voltage is different from ANY of them (Ground of Power Outlet #1, Ground of Power Outlet #2, and Ground of your floor), power can flow from point A to B, and a spark occurs!

But only do this if your landlord refuses to do anything to fix your building's electricity.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9663

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: USB sparks

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 16 Feb 2022, 14:25

Slender wrote: ↑
16 Feb 2022, 09:57
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9663
Not mutually exclusive!

Grounding problems CAN cascade to other issues (like USB electrical noise causing mouse jitter/microstutter). USB has error correction built-in, so it can survive moderate electrical problems, but that error correction (ECC) system adds some randomized jitter/latencies.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

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